I was recently talking to a friend about this. Would you date (I mean serious relationship and potential marriage) with a girl who never went to college, assuming they meet all the other qualities you are looking for (She's cute, fun, confident, etc...)?
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DO NOT select a so called "marriage material" girl based only on education, please. She could be the best woman in the world for you without being a Doctor, Banker or similar. Personal opinion btw
I mean, there's a pretty large gap between "Doctor/Banker" and going to college...
If you read my comment, there is not such a big difference. I hope you understand what I meant. Education could be a factor to decide but not a necessary and sufficient condition. At least, personal opinion.
why the fuck is this comment getting MS?
That could be an interesting question, but I did not want other random MS...ops, am I gonna get it right now??!
Yes
no
edit: maybe
Can you repeat the question
Absolutely if it’s a fit, she is still intellectually curious, intelligent, and understands why I work all the time. There obviously is a strong correlation of these attributes with having a college degree, but the degree part would not be the deal breaker for me.
Wtf? Of course I would date her. When did being $200k in debt become a deal breaker for being with a woman?
College is no indication of how smart someone is. And frankly I don't particularly care if my future wife is some power-mover professional woman or a dedicated stay-at-home mom. If anything, all things considered, when I'm ready to have kids I would probably value the latter more. Call me old fashioned, but in my eyes a man who can't take care of his family on his own isn't worth his salt. And my goal for selecting a wife will be to partner with someone I feel confident in helping lead the charge in crafting my kid's values and work ethic. I don't expect her to be their professor she's there to be a mother, and I can buy the tutoring services of better people than either one of us will likely be in any given subject.
Yes, kids, gather your guidance from the man with 🚀GME🚀 in his username
I mean I certainly made more than you did all-in the last couple years combined just off of fucking around in my PA with "meme stocks". But I'm sure you've got it all figured out with those spankin ETFs you get to invest in Mr. Veep 😉
I get the point you're trying to make but you didn't phrase it correctly. A college degree is not a definitive statement on how smart someone is, but there is a correlation. You went more extreme because this is, you know, the internets, the place where nuance goes to die.
You're old fashioned, but whatever. I personally wouldn't want to marry someone whose dream is to be a SAHM, but to each their own.
Yes
I’d never judge someone’s level of education based on their degree or them not having a degree. If she’s a fit, yeah sure why not. Like what if she’s runs a successful start-up and dropped to focus on that? Or never had the chance to go to college but is successful/decent person in every other way? It depends on the person overall not really their degree.
Call me a geek or brand me a snob but the person you end up with says a lot about both what you were able to pull and the fragility of your ego. The year is 2021, boys and girls, aim higher
You sound really insecure, just saying.
9 out of 10 people in IB are insecure. And all 10 are judgmental as all fuck.
wtf i agree with this ...
I don’t think there are many factors that, in isolation, would disqualify an SO for me (outside of extreme things like history of assault or liking wet socks or something).
I think intuitively I’m more likely to connect with someone with a similar background to my own, but it certainly isn’t a requirement. As long as we get along and align on what we want out of the relationship, then the rest is just detail
This lol, I've dated girls with no college educations and it's honestly kinda hard to connect with them. The college education isn't the dealbreaker but rather that these girls usually have a very different background that I can't really understand or relate to. Context matters.
That socks comment is oddly specific... did you legit date a girl that was into wet socks...
For sure
Yes, without a doubt. I cannot think of a reason why having a degree would make someone more attractive or be better at raising a family, and I do not see much of a difference with couples I know where the wife has a bachelors and where she does not.
No doubt
Absolutely. You don’t have to pay their student debt.
Ok so choose: College girl with debt vs. College girl without debt.
Then choose: College girl without debt vs. No College Girl without debt.
Bro why are you paying their student debts??
Not having a degree isn't the issue, but I feel that she may not be ambitious, hard working, forward-thinking, etc.
My parents (long divorced) come from very different backgrounds. My mother's family are all college educated, professional types, while my father is descended from a line of coal miners and still lives in a small town.
Whenever I spend time with my father's family and friends I often find it boring. It's not a snob thing: these people are smart in ways I never could be (vocational skills) and make as much if not more money than a lot of college grads I know. But we laugh at different jokes, watch different movies, travel to different places, have vastly different life goals and outlooks.
So while a degree might not be a strict yes/no requirement for my life partner, the vast majority of people I'd be compatible with would have one.
Well said. SB'd
To use "College education" as a filter for who to marry or not, is dumb. What if she is an athlete, model, bizniz owner, or the 100 other professions you can be without a college education? This answers your question if you meant due to her not going to college she won't have a good income job. And if you are thinking about intelligence and college, the comments above have given you great answers.
Well, the argument would be that an athlete or a model, who got by on physical gifts (and hard work and all that, I know those professions aren't a cakewalk) for their whole lives, may not be the most engaging conversationalists or the most curious people. I've been out with models, or rather one, and her range of knowledge/interests was quite narrow. I'm not saying I need to have a spiritually fulfilling conversation the moment I meet someone, but you are theoretically planning on having a life together, and that means interacting with the world and each other, and that's not easy when your partner has a shallower range of interests. Someone with a college education has at least been exposed to a larger universe of people and ideas.
My ex was HS friends with a model who had other model friends all of whom are now failed models working at modeling agencies. They are the most vapid, entitled, ill-mannered group of children I’ve ever encountered. One would also have to question what kinds of bloated old men or creepy dudes funded all of their freebie trips, etc.
Why can’t you just she was a bimbo?
I’m joking of course. You’re not the first person I’ve heard say that. You’d think they’d be pretty interesting people on account of the traveling they do and amount of people they meet plus the opportunities afforded to them by their line of work. I guess it also depends on the level of model they are, maybe the girl on Instagram (or OnlyFans) isn’t really like a true supermodel. I wouldn’t know either way.
yeah for sure
but i would think twice if she comes from a poor family, gotta be pragmatic
(i have my bowl for the monkey shit ready, come at me)
Yes.
Obviously they still need to be attractive, interesting, intelligent, good at conversation and doing something with their lives but absolutely, a degree is not some kind of pre-req to any of those things. Newsflash: we don't live in the 1980s anymore, plenty of quality members of the opposite (or same) sex out there who've eschewed higher ed for other endeavours.
Realistically however? Probably not going to end up with someone without a degree. My social network is 95% degree educated. My professional network is 99% degree educated. The cities with the types of employers for my career are more degree educated than average. The chances I'll naturally happen on a romantic prospect without a degree is pretty much slim to none.
Yes.
25 years ago
Pretty weird dichotomy in this question. It's not that the education is the be all end all, it's just a signal for what usually comes with it. Why did they not get an education? Family problems? Finances? Childhood trauma? Plenty of reasons available, many that carry real baggage.
Would I take the girl with 99 of the 100 qualities I'm interested in? Obviously. But that equation becomes rougher, faster, when you start off with a signal that strong, making me believe it's not 99/100.
If you want your life to resemble House of Cards probably look for a degree but otherwise plenty of intelligent women don’t have them.
Yea I’d prefer my wife not to be a sociopath but I get the power couple message.
.
Of course. The best girl I've dated didn't go to college. On a list of 100 items, it falls somewhere around 500th on things I care about.
Married to her now?
Nope. I don't see myself ever marrying. I really want 2 or 3 asian "wives." >:)
I swear to god based off these off topics posts 95% of this forum are virgins.
A college education is typically just a precursor to having a career so as long they have an actual career and goals to build their life, having a college education becomes fairly irrelevant. I personally could never date someone who doesn't have drive and is just looking to punch a time card and their are plenty of people with college degrees with that kind of boring personality.
Probably not because most likely we would not share the same values. I am not talking about the girl who dropped out of Columbia to create a start up company. I mean a girl who was not serious about high school, hung out with other uneducated people and now has a job that does not require a college degree.
Absolutely, but I would want to know why she didn't go to college. If she had another path that didn't involve going to college, I'm totally okay with that. If she has no ambition and no career (working in some dead end job) and is just dinking around with no purpose, that's not going to be a fit.
Merely attending a university doesn't indicate anything. There are too many reasons why someone would choose to go to school or not. Frankly, I'm more interested in someone with the wherewithal to be successful without a college diploma.
College is only a no brainer when the pedigree outweighs a purely skills-focused approach to learning.
ass and titties > college degree
the only fans era
this may be one of the dumbest threads in the history of this site
Yeah but she would have to be noticeably smart. A major risk for a non-college educated partner would be low intelligence, so gauging that upfront is paramount.
Yeah but she would have to be noticeably smart. A major risk for a non-college educated partner would be low intelligence, so gauging that upfront is paramount.
Rather a chick that didn’t go to college than one that paid for it with OnlyFans
What about one that didn't go and now sustains her lifestyle with Onlyfans because that seems like the biggest demographic
Depends, does she have milkers?
Op: "Would you date a girl..."
Me: "Yes, yes, yes"
Men (atleast me and the MF's I know) don't give a fuck about how many degrees or accomplishments a woman has. Is she gorgeous? Is she voluptuous? Can she cook? Is she fun to be around? Have good genetics (for reproduction of course)? Is she your peace? Do we have great conversations? Do I generally just love being around her? If the answer to all these questions are "yes," then I would marry a convicted murderer - I don't care. Those are the traits men like myself look for in women. Don't give a damn about your AS,BA,MBA,CFA, or whatever A. Shove it up your A - I sAy.
It also depends on what you're looking for in a relationship. Are you traditional or modern? Do you like traditional gender roles or do you like strong and independent women? In the long term, do you want a stay at home partner to raise your offspring or do you want a working partner with helpers and a nanny? Clearly I fall into the traditional spectrum. If you do as well, college degrees shouldn't matter to you. There's a difference between intelligence and a college degree. Those two things are not synonymous. You can have an intelligent woman on your side without her needing a bullshit degree.
My god you have low standards
What do you define as having "high standards" intern? I'm curious.
"Low standards" is marrying someone who is good-looking, fun, nice, cooks, easy to talk to, etc.? "High standards" is marrying someone with a watered-down, meaningless college degree devoid of classics, Latin, debate, philosophy, history, etc.? Ok...
When you'd ding the love of your life for some "prestige". Kids, get your priorities straight.
if you get divorced, you'll be on the hook for a ton of money
Yes, with an asterisk, depends on the exact context. No degree/formal education isn't an automatic no. Intelligence and ambition are attractive traits to me. My SO has multiple degrees, but, using her as an example, I would 100% still be with her if she had 0 degrees (all else equal).
It goes both ways too. Someone I graduated STEM with (who supposedly did quite well GPA-wise, multiple technical internships) quit their engineering job and joined an MLM. They now post shit on instagram that honestly seems satirical.
I feel like a lot of people here are only looking at the ends of the spectrum (i.e. went to a fantastic college and got a great degree, or did nothing and now works at subway). For example, I know a family friend who didn’t go to college and just went straight into a corporate job because she spoke three languages. She makes $20+/hr and is given overtime and full benefits. Saved roughly $100k over those first four years. I also know a shit load of people who came out of college with $80k in debt and a starting salary under $40k. While I still do believe having a degree is generally beneficial, there are so many more factors that make this question impossible to answer with a yes or no.
I think there's two things that will matter to me as I look for a SO. Do you care about what you do? and are you financially disciplined. I don't care if you have a little bit of debt but if you don't actively try and get out of debt then I just can't get behind you.
Couldn't agree more. In my case, if you are passionate about what you do, intellectually curious, and have some basic financial goals, I am thrilled whether you have a degree or not.
Would I date someone without a college degree? No.
Would I date someone who blew $200k on a Bachelors in art history and is now underemployed? Also no. You may be passionate but you are also an idiot.
Agree that college education doesn’t mean much but lack of it is even more off-putting.
And that's fair. To be honest, this family friend of mine is probably more of an exception rather than your average GED/high school diploma worker. You may have to sift a lot more before finding a gem within that dating pool, hence the appeal of just limiting your dating pool to those with degrees. For me, If they didn't get a degree, ideally it's because they had other professional opportunities lined up (albeit rare, this is becoming much more possible these days).
What if the person with the art history degree is a trust fund kid?
so hipotetically, you wouldnt date a famous artist?, if someone can make money w/o a degree, why does it matters?
I am a little surprised that so many people here are okay with the idea of a girl not having a college degree. I think that close to 100% of the women in my social and work life have at least a college degree. In some cultures, I think it is just kind of expected that your significant other is going to have at least a college degree.
What do you mean by “some cultures”? You sound like elitist snob. Only ~35% of US adults have a 4-year college degree. This is one reason why the rest of the country has such a negative view on the financial industry.
Well, if you want me to get specific I will. The cultures are Asian, Indian and Jewish. Unless you come from a small rural town, you must know that these groups place a very high priority on education.
"I am a little surprised that so many people here are okay with the idea of a girl not having a college degree."
Very unaccepting of such a good liberal!!! Maybe you should check your privilege.
I should check my priviledge because I would rather spend time with someone whom I share common values. Then, anyone who belongs to a church or a synagogue should also check their priviledge because one of my main reasons people affiliate with these institutions is spend time with people who have similar values.
Yeah, you can tell pretty easily if someone's a bozo, and as long as you connect with them I don't see the problem
Why are people so concerned about going to college.
If I was with a girl who was perfect who went to community college and was a RN, or didn't go and instead used the $ to start a small business or something why would that not be great? Not going to college doesn't translate to unintelligent.
Would you prefer a girl who is 22 and runs her own small bakery, or a girl who is 22 and majored in gender studies and complains about white rich males? I can guarantee I know who you'd rather spend time with.
I would rather date a girl who majored in gender studies and complains about rich while males. The probability of having something in common with her would higher than the probability of having something in common with the bakery owner.
Personally, I'd think a girl who's whole world view isn't bent on taking me down would have more in common with me than a girl who spent 4 years being brainwashed into thinking me and my friends are evil.
Perhaps you believe a 4 year experience is more impactful to a person's personality than traits such as personality, agreeableness, and compassion. Or, maybe you too hate rich white males. In which case, I guess you can have the women who peak at 19 then cover themselves in tattoos and piercings while trying to destroy the patriarchy and capitalism.
But...but...she’s gonna hate you. Purely my opinion, but the bakery owner is the way to go. I’m in finance, she’s a business owner, that right there gives her a better chance of being on the same page with me on some things like personal finance, world view, etc. Besides, could you really stand some girl that majored in gender studies. She went to college, got a degree (shit is worth more to be honest) and now complains about how evil everything she doesn’t agree with is. Couldn’t stand someone like that, college degree or not. But that’s just me I guess.
Yes.
Education isn't always an indicator of intelligence (nor success).
I have a friend who went to Harvard and is now barely doing well bouncing around one failing "start-up" after another most of which that never even gets seed funding.
I have another friend who went to community college, grinded it in the food and beverages industry and is the youngest person in his company to make middle management. Needless to say he's being fast tracked for promotion.
If he were born under better circumstances, kid would've gotten a full ride to his pick of schools and then have his pick of jobs.
One day he's gonna be one rich mother fucker I can tell.
I don't get it??? This isn't rocket science. The most important aspect for a long-term relationship should be your compatibility with your partner. For me personally, as long as the girl isn't vapid, self-obsessed, social-media obsessed, gossipy, unambitious, etc, I couldn't care less if she went to college or not. There are plenty of women with PhD's that would bite your ear off, and plenty of high school drop out girls that would make great partners and even greater mothers. It all comes down to an individual basis, so there's really no clear cut way to answer this question.
Now I must admit, every one of us as human beings has personal biases. Both my parents have master's degrees, and my grandparents are college-educated as well. So I would be lying if I said it would be easy to relate to someone without a college education, but again, if we vibe then I would not care at all.
As a person that will be well-off through their line of work, the value of an increased household budget to me is not a motivating factor in selecting relationships. Therefore neither is higher education since I primarily view HigherEd as a tool of improved economic outcomes in the future. However, I will note that I am still looking for general intelligence to a specific standard since I know very well the type of women who manage to drag themselves through high school without learning a thing and still manage to end up as eye-candy on the hand of someone successful. They need to be good at SOMETHING - I couldn't care less if it's make-up artistry, interior design, or some other feminine-leaning vocational background. If they aren't then I'd feel like I'd walk over them throughout the relationship.
TLDR: I would, but there has to be some sense of "I'm good at what I do".
Yes, why is this a question?
Would you date a girl who went to a non-target?
I'd say boil it down to what you are asking.
It's like when girls say they just want to date a nice guy...thats not the only quality they want, but thats what they'll tell you. Meaning, if a guy is nice but looks like Danny Devito, he's probably not bagging hot chicks for just being nice (maybe if he's smooth enough). What they really want is a good looking, fun guy with a decent job, or is also nice.
So, when you say without a college education, are you saying someone who is less intelligent, or dumb? Not to brag, I went to a private college where there was a fair amount of people who went there because their parents felt they needed a college education; they spent $200k for their daughter to become an "independent art director". But as they say, you date/marry a girl, youre dating/marrying her family; so you could look at it as what not having a college experience says about her family/upbringing.
I'd also add, no college is about what you are looking for and what stage of your life you're in and what are your opinions. Some guys are just looking for a women to cook/clean/take care of the kids; not saying thats right or wrong, but if thats what you/her want to do, than they probably don't need a college education. Same if you're like a rich millionaire who just wants arm candy. But, if your opinion is women should also work, or contribution to the household monetary, college educated people may be what you're looking for.
Absolutely not. How would you relate to such a person? It's not about the education itself but more about their experiences, world view, and intrests.
It's not about if she is smart or not, it's the social signaling, her upbringing, your compatibility with her, and your social circle. Not to sound like a dick, but I come from a family of educated professionals (Surgeon/Lawyer/MBA), went to boarding school, and later on to a target. Most of the girls I dated had the same upbringing, though some had an intellectual disadvantage and went to not-so-good schools to major in whatever. But they still related to me, and the stuff I liked to do since they grew up around many of those activities, they would not complain about my work hours since many had family members in finance and understood it. Many of them were working for their family companies and in one case I had a girlfriend working for mine ( don't recommend).
On the other hand, I had a lot of friends who didn't care where they went to school, just wanted to party, and went to Regent's (London), and some big state schools in the US, I would not only hear "horror" stories about dating and their social scenes but I also spent a couple of weeks with them in some of those schools and I couldn't relate to most people and girls over there. Their worldview is narrow, they don't have similar goals and expectations, they don't share common experiences and hobbies, and can't understand a lot of stuff you do and talk about.
You're so well-educated that you can't even see the contradiction gushing out of this comment.
"Their worldview is narrow. Also, I would NEVER date someone without a college degree because of my open-minded worldview."
Dude what did your non target do to you
I have tried and only had bad experiences with girls without college degrees.
What? not possible....
But in all serious yes same thing here. Most of them are family of friends that I know and they are just so much worse off (aka kids pretty early on and what not).
Yeah for real.
I dated one girl who dropped out of a for profit christian school and had like $65k in debt and worked as a nanny, she had such bad self esteem issues it was insane. Another who bounced from server to server job but had Louis bags and all this other brand name stuff and told me that the second she gets some money she's getting a Ferrari. That one also told me that she plans to be married with kids by 25, and was 23 at the time.
Honestly just a lot of train-wrecks. Really tried to be open minded but it was all bad news bears. I think the big issue was different values and tons of baggage that prevented them from going.
I would say that a uni degree is a soft prerequisite. Its not just about some superficial class status. Its about mental connection, values, intelligence, culture and her being a mother that will diffuse the desirable cultural & civilizational values to our kids. A chick without a degree, I have observed is highly unlikely to have these to a sufficient degree.
Now I have met the occasional girl from places like eastern europe, asia, who I can tell, had she grown up in the US would def be a college grad. But the American born girl without it prob doesnt have the requisite class or brains
Open to the exception, but she would be just that, a rare exception.
depends on whether she swallows my
Yes, I would go out to dinner with most of the Victoria Secret models.
Yeah, I would, assuming she was very accomplished or capable without one. In general that's going to be a tough find though because society encourages us pretty heavily to go to college. The general social circles I'm in, and overlap with, all pretty much have people with degrees so I just see it very likely I'll end up with a girl who has one. I'll also say that people who do have degrees aren't always great people. They can fall a bit short in critical thinking and general maturity because their college did not challenge them enough. A lot of just passing people through the system and handing out of degrees, not so much of actually being challenged to earn it.
if she can make money withour a degree, it doesnt matter
Yes, but I probably wouldn’t eat her out.
Here's a shocker that most of the older/committed dudes will agree to, I think. You'll always want what you don't have. When I was young and single and mostly going through dating pretty but mostly shallow girls, I wanted to be with someone smart and ambitious. Fast forward a few years, and I married an overly educated girl (multiple masters and a PhD). Now as much as i love my wife, and enjoy our conversations etc. there are days where I sometimes bump into less "intellectually impressive" girls and they seem like fun because after a long day, sometimes you need to maintain a conversation with someone at 20% brain capacity.
I am not being condescending, just giving a different prespective.
I left someone smart and actually interesting for that lighthearted 20% brain capacity that you described. That shit gets old real fast and you will inevitably wake up (not even a year later) wondering wtf you were thinking.
Do you think it's a "grass is greener" sort of thing? Like if you had stayed with the intellectual girl, would you have wondered a year later why you are still with a nerd?
totally agree with your last sentence.
Helen Keller was a fraud
Never.
How hot is she?
I want my wife to be a homemaking, God-fearing salt of the earth woman with a strongly mother instinct who is ready to be my life partner and fight for the cause.
Oh, and she's gotta be cool with me pumping 5+ kids into her while we live off-the-grid on a ranch I built in Montana with my banking money.
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