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Wall Street Oasis » Forums » Monkeying Around
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Alcoholic Speculation
 

happypantsmcgee's picture
happypantsmcgee
      O
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,621
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 5:17pm
alcoholmoney.jpg

Alright so I've been thinking about this for awhile and would like to hear what some of you monkeymen (and women...I guess) think about it. The price of a particular libation usually increases as it ages (obvious, I know but stay with me). How feasible would it be to buy a variety of physical, actual bottles of alcohol for speculative purposes? I've done some searches but have only found some lukewarm articles and comments on the issue so I was hoping to start a bit of a discussion about how one could go about doing this.(Posting links to better sources would be appreciated.) I'm not talking about a vice fund or anything like that. I mean physically buying bottles of XYZ and holding them for however long in the hopes that they appreciate in value. I know its been done but I'm hoping for some direction or comments about methods, etc.

PS Don't make liquidity jokes...its too easy.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
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Tags:
  • wine
  • Charlie Sheen
  • beer
  • Alcohol
  • Monkeying Around
olafenizer's picture

http://www.cnbc.com/id/158402

olafenizer
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,005
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 5:27pm

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?play=1&video=16153...

See my other WSO blog posts

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alexpasch's picture

I want to open a fund that

alexpasch
      EN
 
 
(King Kong, 1,910
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 5:34pm

I want to open a fund that invests in ferraris and mansions. I see classic ferraris selling for a lot, and real estate, despite the recent bursting bubble, has a good long-term track record. I think some art and furniture also appreciates over time, so I'll buy that too and put it in the houses. I will add wine to my list, per your post. I promise to be a good steward of the aforementioned assets ;)

www.jetcigs.com - Use coupon code WSO30 for 30% off

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happypantsmcgee's picture

olafenizer

happypantsmcgee
      O
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,621
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 5:34pm
olafenizer:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?play=1&video=1615339036

Yes! Exactly but I want to buy the bottle earlier in the process, hold it, then unload it.

Sidenote: It would be fun to punch the dude with that insurance policy in the nose

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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Midas Mulligan Magoo's picture

you lost my focus forever

Midas Mulligan Magoo
     
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,167
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 5:36pm

you lost my focus forever when you combined "Charlie Sheen" with "100 women in hedge funds"

Where I unload on Twits and take verbal S***s

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happypantsmcgee's picture

alexpasch wrote: I want to

happypantsmcgee
      O
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,621
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 5:37pm
alexpasch:

I want to open a fund that invests in ferraris and mansions. I see classic ferraris selling for a lot, and real estate, despite the recent bursting bubble, has a good long-term track record. I think some art and furniture also appreciates over time, so I'll buy that too and put it in the houses. I will add wine to my list, per your post. I promise to be a good steward of the aforementioned assets ;)

Yes, Yes alex I get it. My question was more so how you would go about valuing stuff like that early on. I don't know its probably stupid (though it is being done to a certain extent already). Plus if it implodes, it would be mad easy to drown your sorrows.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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happypantsmcgee's picture

Midas Mulligan Magoo

happypantsmcgee
      O
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,621
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 5:40pm
Midas Mulligan Magoo:

you lost my focus forever when you combined "Charlie Sheen" with "100 women in hedge funds"

Damn, it was supposed to be Charlie Sheen in 100 women

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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alexpasch's picture

happypantsmcgee

alexpasch
      EN
 
 
(King Kong, 1,910
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 5:44pm
happypantsmcgee:
alexpasch:

I want to open a fund that invests in ferraris and mansions. I see classic ferraris selling for a lot, and real estate, despite the recent bursting bubble, has a good long-term track record. I think some art and furniture also appreciates over time, so I'll buy that too and put it in the houses. I will add wine to my list, per your post. I promise to be a good steward of the aforementioned assets ;)

Yes, Yes alex I get it. My question was more so how you would go about valuing stuff like that early on. I don't know its probably stupid (though it is being done to a certain extent already). Plus if it implodes, it would be mad easy to drown your sorrows.

You'd have to be an expert in valuing wines and speculating on them. You'd also have to have a place to store them, insurance, etc. Also, you are offering securities by creating a fund, so you would need a proper private placement (and all legal fees that entails), etc. The markets involved are also quite small, so you'd likely corner your own inventory, and if you have to redeem, would face liquidity problems (no pun intended). Institutions are loathe to invest in stuff like this, because it screams of fiduciary mismanagement (even when it isn't), so good luck raising capital from them. High net worth individuals invest in this stuff, but why would they pay you to do it when they can just do it themselves (or pay professional consultants every once in a while).

Basically, even if you did have a "$2.5M nose", it would be quite difficult; and without one, essentially impossible.

www.jetcigs.com - Use coupon code WSO30 for 30% off

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TNA's picture

I know of a PE shop that

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,536
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 5:45pm

I know of a PE shop that invests in horse farms and wine. They are out there, but the niche is very small.

Interesting idea though. Definitely not an efficient market with opportunity for mis-pricing.

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mr_bigglesworth's picture

First of all, there are

mr_bigglesworth
      O
 
(Baboon, 121
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 6:48pm

First of all, there are Bordeaux futures, so if the vintage turns out to be an especially good one, you can flip it as soon as they're delivered. Of course the issue is, unless you're selling it directly to another collector, your wine dealer (or auctioneer) is going to take a decent spread.
Another option is to buy and hold. Issue with this is unless you're a well known collector, a purchaser can't really verify that you've stored it in a dark, vibration-free location at the correct temp.
Single Malts have risen in price substantially the past few years. Same issues as collecting wine.
Everything has been going up in price because the Chinese are buying so much of it. My advice is don't buy it to invest, and buy what you like to drink. Bordeaux first growths are now overpriced, there are definitely some very good third growths out there, reasonably priced (still not cheap). Also many California/Pac. NW wines are very good.

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Im with Busey's picture

How about trying to speculate

Im with Busey
      IB
 
(Baboon, 171
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 7:54pm

How about trying to speculate for the next Four Lokos? I'll work for 40k with unlimited research funding.

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happypantsmcgee's picture

Im with Busey wrote: How

happypantsmcgee
      O
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,621
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 7:59pm
Im with Busey:

How about trying to speculate for the next Four Lokos? I'll work for 40k with unlimited research funding.

Yea...when you research a potential Real Estate investment, do you live there? Didn't think so. Weak attempt at humor...Plus, could you imagine if someone had to decide whether or not to invest in Four Loko based on taste? Probably wouldn't have heard of it if they had.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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Im with Busey's picture

happypantsmcgee wrote: Im

Im with Busey
      IB
 
(Baboon, 171
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 8:06pm
happypantsmcgee:
Im with Busey:

How about trying to speculate for the next Four Lokos? I'll work for 40k with unlimited research funding.

Yea...when you research a potential Real Estate investment, do you live there? Didn't think so. Weak attempt at humor...Plus, could you imagine if someone had to decide whether or not to invest in Four Loko based on taste? Probably wouldn't have heard of it if they had.

I apologize for offending you.

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levelworm's picture

Liquidity is restricted and

levelworm
      O
 
(Orangutan, 285
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 8:07pm

Liquidity is restricted and professionals need to be conselled often. Not recommended.

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happypantsmcgee's picture

Im with Busey

happypantsmcgee
      O
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,621
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 8:10pm
Im with Busey:
happypantsmcgee:
Im with Busey:

How about trying to speculate for the next Four Lokos? I'll work for 40k with unlimited research funding.

Yea...when you research a potential Real Estate investment, do you live there? Didn't think so. Weak attempt at humor...Plus, could you imagine if someone had to decide whether or not to invest in Four Loko based on taste? Probably wouldn't have heard of it if they had.

I apologize for offending you.

Don't let it happen again..just kidding. SB for humility

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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Im with Busey's picture

happypantsmcgee wrote: Im

Im with Busey
      IB
 
(Baboon, 171
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 8:20pm
happypantsmcgee:
Im with Busey:
happypantsmcgee:
Im with Busey:

How about trying to speculate for the next Four Lokos? I'll work for 40k with unlimited research funding.

Yea...when you research a potential Real Estate investment, do you live there? Didn't think so. Weak attempt at humor...Plus, could you imagine if someone had to decide whether or not to invest in Four Loko based on taste? Probably wouldn't have heard of it if they had.

I apologize for offending you.

Don't let it happen again..just kidding. SB for humility

I was so close to taking the plunge into just becoming an outright troll, but you just reminded me that their can be non-douchers on this site.

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loki276's picture

imagine if it had fell during

loki276
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 328
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 8:21pm
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happypantsmcgee's picture

loki276 wrote: imagine if it

happypantsmcgee
      O
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,621
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 8:23pm

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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Matt the Tiger's picture

happypantsmcgee

Matt the Tiger
      PE
 
(Senior Baboon, 248
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 8:44pm
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Matt the Tiger's picture

ANT wrote: I know of a PE

Matt the Tiger
      PE
 
(Senior Baboon, 248
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 8:45pm
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LeveragedFiend's picture

just buy some Bordeaux and

LeveragedFiend
      IB
 
(Senior Orangutan, 480
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 9:09pm

It’s no mystery that ass has always been tits’ greatest enemy... It’s almost like a Muslim-Jewish thing, but with tits and ass.

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ShreddiesBrah's picture

http://www.wineinvestmentfund

ShreddiesBrah
     
 
(King Kong, 1,337
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 9:58pm
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loki276's picture

Matt the Tiger

loki276
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 328
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 10:26pm
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ShreddiesBrah's picture

loki276 wrote: Matt the

ShreddiesBrah
     
 
(King Kong, 1,337
 
Points)
 on 1/2/11 at 10:35pm
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someotherguy's picture

I feel this is a bad idea.

someotherguy
      HF
 
(Orangutan, 278
 
Points)
 on 1/3/11 at 9:17am
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GoodBread's picture

French reds, single malts and

GoodBread
      AM
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,604
 
Points)
 on 1/3/11 at 11:08am

Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews

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dagro's picture

Omoba De Jonz O

dagro
      CF
 
(Gorilla, 508
 
Points)
 on 1/3/11 at 2:32pm

=========================================
"... then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."

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GoodBread's picture

To make any sort of 'real'

GoodBread
      AM
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,604
 
Points)
 on 1/3/11 at 3:08pm

Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews

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bankier's picture

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3af

bankier
     
 
(Senior Chimp, 29
 
Points)
 on 1/3/11 at 3:42pm
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qwertyzap's picture

So, I've actually made around

qwertyzap
      O
 
(Monkey, 42
 
Points)
 on 1/4/11 at 6:50am
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The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

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    Is it cheesy to buy your MD cuban cigars for his birthday
  • Hi Monkeys, The WSO community has been such a help for me since my sophomore year when I learnt about investment banking and has been a huge support throughout my entire recruitment process. I've never done a post but the topics and resources that I have read have been fruitful. All of the...
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    You might shed a tear...laughable.
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    Recruiting for PE and HF at the same time
  • Hi, this is my first post so please be nice :) I've been lurking the forums for ages, and finally he a question I need to post. Eventually I want to go into prop/algo trading or quant stuff, and I'd rather not work in NY. Id rather chicago, houston, Charlotte, or somewhere...
    College - big fish in little pond or little fish in big pond
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    Anyone in the office this weekend?
  • What are the best books for valuing private firms at the moment? Thanks in advance....
    Essential readings
  • Here is the question guys. Graduated almost a year ago as a postgad from a top uni in a non-finance subject and have had trouble securing a full time role. Since graduation, I have worked in a BB for off cycle internship and also a midmarket firm in IBD. Now, though semi-hypotheical, but...
    ER graduate analyst job at a no-name shop vs. Summer Associate at BB
  • So I just finished up my junior year as an econ major at a target in NYC. I won't post my whole story, as I've done that before on here, but I decided very recently that I wanted a career in investment banking. Because of that, I have no relevant experience. However, I managed to...
    Accounting 101 or more math?
  • I'll be quick with this - Liberal Arts undergrad MBA (no concentration) student graduating in December No relevant finance experience outside of academia No finance...
    Need Some Career Advice
  • In case you missed them, here's some of last week's most popular topics: <a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/yahoo-buys-tumblr"><strong>Yahoo Buys Tumblr </strong></a> [quote] Any thoughts on this? $1.1bn seems like a lot, but maybe I...
    WSO Weekly Wrap-Up 05/18-05/24
  • Yes I am thinking of the song by The Clash... I don't mean to post an annoying overly-posted subject right now (as I notice someone else has done the same today) but I really need advice on this very important decision, and could use tips from people who have done something similar in...
    Should I stay, or should I go?
  • HRK at Chipotle, looking very happy to have his picture taken <img...
    Even God Has to Eat From Time to Time
  • Besides on the job experience, anyone have tips on how to get proficient at bloomberg (particularly fixed income section)? i did that certification test and it was useless. Would love to hear about anything in a 'crash course' format too if it...
    Best way to learn to use bloomberg?
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I was writing an email to a fellow monkey who is about to start as a banking analyst in the summer. It's been a little over 5 yrs now since I was a wee young first-year analyst in restructuring for one of the Moelis/Houlihan/Evercore type firms (I call them the firms where most people will...
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This is the reaction any analyst who has ever worked in banking has when you say you want to leave banking for business school then come back as a post b school associate... <img src="http://epicpinterestfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/how-i-met-your-mother-barney-why.gif"...
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<em>Mod note: Best of Bankerella - this was originally posted 10/1/12</em> I occasionally get PMed by people at colleges I’ve never heard of before, asking if they have a shot at IBD. Folks, why IBD? The finance world is broad and varied, and there are a million ways to...
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Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
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