CFA® helpful for law --> finance?

I am currently a junior associate at a top ny law firm doing mostly m&a and private equity work. I am thinking about switching to finance, but I do not have a clear idea as to which area of finance to do. I am thinking about i-banking, PE, hedge fund, investment management etc. but I am open to other possibilities. My UG majors are math and economics (did very well, but school is not a big-name) and I have passed CFA® I. Any advice on whether I should continue to study for the CFA® ? Is it helpful enough to worth the huge time commitment for someone in my situation? I really need some career advice as I really do not like my current job very much. Thank you!

 
Best Response

As an attorney a couple years ahead of you (depending on how junior you are), my impression is that a CFA is helpful on the buyside and is definitely a plus if you want to stay in law (JD/CFAs are fairly rare in a world where everyone seems to be a JD now). Also, the 2nd CFA exam is the hardest, so if you have the time to finish it, I would, but (at least when I last looked) they would not recognize the practice of law as sufficient experience to meet the CFA experience requirement, so you cannot earn the CFA designation as an attorney.

Welcome to the club of dissatisfied attorneys by the way... I'm coming up on my 4th anniversary of the practice of law and I'm headed off to MBA school in the fall to hopefully jump over to IB/PE.

 

reformedatty and others,

I am currently an attorney and wanted to get your take on transitioning to get an MBA. I graduated undegrad in 2003, went straight to law school and graduated in 2006. Since then I worked for a big law Boston firm for 2 years doing capital markets and asset securitization until I got laid off in the middle of 2008 and found a great position in early 2009 with a massive consumer products co. in NJ but in a completely different role (marketing, advertising law).

So in total I have about 3 years of experience now and would have about 4 to 4.5 years if I started MBA school in 2011. I have already taken the GMATs and my credentials are as follows: GMAT - 730; UGPA - 3.2 (Econ Degree, math minor; school - WUSTL); Law School GPA - 3.7 (Top 5%; Fordham).

I have pretty varied interests but I do miss the finance related work and would prefer to go that route. That being said, I also enjoy the marketing/advertising game, but its just not my first love. I see an MBA as way of (1) moving over to the business side of things and (2) as a way to steer my career away from marketing to capital markets or quantitative analysis.

Just wanted to get the thoughts of another attorney, particularly as to my chances of being accepted into a top 5-20 business school. I know that my work experience is different than most candidates in that it consisted of two distinctly different areas of practice. Although I know I can make an effective argument as to why I want an MBA - particularly after working with MBAs on a daily basis in my current role, I am not sure if my argument as to why i-banking or capital markets/sales/trading or quant analysis will fly with admissions' committees.

Thanks, Marlowe

 

Reformedatty, thank you very much for your reply. I am thinking about MBA too but that just seems too be very costly. Ideally, I would try to jump over without having to go to school again. What makes you want to go for MBA? Is it too hard to go directly from practicing law to IB/PE? You also mentioned that CFA is a plus if I want to stay in law. Could you elaborate a bit on that (besides the fact that it is rare)? My impression was that CFA is not very helpful for the practice of law. There seems to be lots of dissatisfied attorneys... =)

 

I hear your concerns regarding the cost of an MBA, but if it provides you a path to greater life satisfaction, happiness and career flexibility, then those should be taken into account in your analysis. Personally, after receiving my scholarship offers from the MBA programs, an MBA is relatively cheap (about $300,000-$400,000 after lost wages, remaining tuition, living expenses), especially when you look at bankers salaries compared to attorneys (at the higher levels - VP and up vs. partner). To get these scholarships my stats are 3.8 UG GPA, 3.4 law GPA (top third of class), 730 GMAT and 3 years work experience; however, since you're at a big NYC firm, I would say you have a leg up on me from a work experience standpoint and must also have the necessary intelligence to do well on the GMAT.

Also, understand that my perspective is MM M&A/tax in the SE US... this is a far cry from the, I presume, NYC M&A world where you practice. My average deal size is about $50M. In transactions like this, the IBers I deal with are mainly just providing fairness opinions, so most of the negotiating is left to the buyer/seller's deal team, for which I am an advisor. At this level, a CFA would better allow me to evaluate offers and provide substantive support to any counter-proposal I had. For example, instead of saying "I think Business X deserves a 6 multiple, not 8", I could be a little more cerebral and comment that "Based on historic and projected cap ex, the current offer would not provide sufficient free cash flow, after transaction debt, to fund the necessary cap ex." In short, adding a CFA on the legal side, in the MM world, is helpful as it adds value to a deal participant that people rarely associate with true, tangible, value.

Regarding your concern of lateralling from law to IB/PE, this is a contact sport (meaning the better/more contacts you have, the better and easier it will be). I have seen it done (although not on the BB level, think Houlihan Lokey/Lazard MM), but these are typically younger partners moving into IB as a director. I considered this route, but given the time and effort it takes to make partner (especially now, post 2008), it just is not attractive. For me, it seems like every deal has morphed into the next, and the thought of doing this another 6-8 years to make partner makes me sick; especially if I then need to have good timing or get somewhat lucky to actually make the leap across into banking. Alternatively, I can take a semi-2 year vacation, leave MBA, join a bank as an associate and start what I believe is my true passion a lot sooner. This path obviously costs money, but I've become so jaded in law that $300,000-$400,000 doesn't seem like that much anymore, especially if it gets me into something I'd rather be doing.

I hope this helps. I would consider yourself luck though in that you are in NY doing M&A/PE deals. I would just start talking to your clients. Ask them, hypothetically, if they would see more value in you with a CFA. Ask them, carefully, if they would ever be interested in having you lateralling over, if they've ever seen it happen and, if so, how you can improve your odds of success. These people in the business you want to be in are going to be your best resource.

 

reformdatty, can I PM you? I am in a similar boat. 5 years consulting in trade policy and financial sector integration and I transitioned via an LLM to a top Chicago firm, I mostly work on PE M&A. I did not plan on going into BigLaw but somehow I ended up in it.

 

Francisco and Reformedatty, I just wanted to say that these posts have been really informative, especially to me. I am currently a 3L at an NYC law school (think Brooklyn, Cardozo, etc.) and I am heavily interested in practicing M&A/CorpFinance when I graduate but I have always kept finance closeby because, should I dislike practicing, it can serve as my Plan B.

Would you mind possibly expanding upon your dissatisfaction with your M&A law practice, especially considering that you are at a prestigious firm in NYC? I'd be interested in hearing your opinion and thoughts on this.

I, like both of you, have also contemplated an MBA and a CFA to supplement my legal education (corporate law concentration). The MBA seems a less likely option because of the experience hurdle (would need to get a couple of years of practice in beforehand) as well as the opportunity cost. But, I have looked into the CFA. I, like you have mentioned, originally thought this would not be of much help to me in a corporate law practice but I would be interested in hearing more about why and how it would help (is it purely from a client relationships perspective, what about employment marketability?).

Also, you mentioned that an attorney would be unable to complete the entire three levels of the CFA. What's the exact experience requirement to receive certification?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

To actually call yourself a CFA, you need to have 3-5 years (I forget) of "financial" experience, in addition to passing the exams. From what I recall when I looked into it, the practice of law, regardless of specialty or financial analysis, didn't count. They want you at a bank, valuation firm, etc where you are doing modeling all day.

If this information is no longer accurate, someone please correct me, as this was my research from a few years ago.

 

I am so glad I finally found some lawyers on this site. Francisco and Reformedatty, at least you two are in the same ballpark to where you want to go. Here's my deal, any advice is greatly appreciated. I want to work as a lawyer doing any type of transactional finance. I'm a third yr lawyer currently practicing litigation, but not securities lit. My schooling/grades will not get me into any firm doing transactional finance work. I've got to somehow get in on experience and networking. Impossible? I did go to a target undergrad (grades bad though). Also worked in equity research before law school and interned at an IB (obtained both through networking). Lastly, was a summer associate at tiny firm doing mtg banking transactional work. I'm a good litigator and my plan is to get into securities litigation and then somehow jump to transactional...How realistic is this plan? Ever seen it done? I'm not sure what other options I have. I could get my CFA, but that's not nearly enough.

Also any recs for law forums? The people on all the law forums are real dbags. There needs to be a WSO for lawyers.

Thanks in advance.

 

I would think that bankruptcy law experience (restructuring) + CFA would be perfect for a distressed debt fund. For your case (OP), the CFA would help you show interest, but it really is not valued for IB/PE.. pretty much anything where you would get to use your M&A/transactional law background. The CFA would be valuable if you were looking to make a switch into IM or PWM. You probably have an "anything but the law" mentality right now, but I think it could be helpful to examine which area of finance you are most interested in.

 
macro:
I would think that bankruptcy law experience (restructuring) + CFA would be perfect for a distressed debt fund. For your case (OP), the CFA would help you show interest, but it really is not valued for IB/PE.. pretty much anything where you would get to use your M&A/transactional law background. The CFA would be valuable if you were looking to make a switch into IM or PWM. You probably have an "anything but the law" mentality right now, but I think it could be helpful to examine which area of finance you are most interested in.

Hi, I am currently a Research Associate at a Financial research company - Capital IQ (a subsidiary of Mc-Grawhill Financials). I have cleared my CFA 1 and i am taking the june attempt for CFA 2. I want to go to law school this year for the August session. Would a CFA 3 + LLB be a good career? Also, would you advise me to stay with CFA and reach a Portfolio Management/ IB and then go for my MBA? (I am just a little skeptic about an MBA and how much domain knowledge or value it add to you) I want to persue law also because it could also open a lot of new avenues for me, even if i want to swicth out of financial law or may be just go to courts to practice.

 

Seeking career advice

Hi, I am currently a Research Associate at Financial research company - Capital IQ (a subsidiary of Mc-Grawhill Financials). I have cleared my CFA 1 and i am taking the june attempt for CFA 2. I want to go to law school this year for the August session. Would a CFA 3 + LLB be a good career? Also, would you advise me to stay with CFA and reach a Portfolio Management/ IB and then go for my MBA? (I am just a little skeptic about an MBA and how much domain knowledge or value it add to you)

I want to persue law also because it could also open a lot of new avenues for me, even if i want to swicth out of financial law or may be just go to courts to practice.

 

I hear restructuring is the best entry for an attorney. You have usable transferable skills. I wouldnt waste time on CFA at all..thats a complete waste of your time. Just network with the bankers you know and craft a great story as to why you are now committed to a new career in finance.

We've got half a million shares in the bag!
 

As per the discussion i read above, i thought i had hope with cfa and law... Is it of no use to persue even financial law after/with CFA? deal valuations? financial due diligence? securities law? don't all these options open up for me better after CFA+LLB?

 

with that link, u intend that CFA is altogether useless if i want to go for anything but portfolio management? I should rather switch to Law?

I had a word with a securities lawyer at a top law firm and he told me knowledge of finance with law could work as an impetus. I am just 21 so i can still choose my career in life.

 

I don't think people are getting this basic fact: you are not a CFA charterholder when you pass the three levels of the exam. You have to have at least 3 years of specific work experience that surrounds evaluating securities.

There is more than likely little marginal benefit to this: BA, University of Michigan JD, NYU Passed CFA L3

I've only taken the CFA exam one time--L1 in June 2007. While I passed, it was a miserable 6 months or preparation. Why would you want to put yourself through 18 months of test prep, thousands of dollars and a ton of lost time to emerge with no charter to show for it?

Array
 

Thankyou, for the help. Can you please guide me what masters degree should i go for that would compliment my CFA... I am planning to apply for the 2012 session with two years of work experience and (hopefully) all three CFA levels cleared...

I have a keen interest in Political Science, Economics and Fashion Designing...

I would highly value and appreciate if you could guide me with some of the best programmes related to economics/political or any other that could compliment my CFA and push towards a more diverse role at work.

Thanks&Regrads [email protected] 091-9999031634

 

Thankyou, for the help. Can you please guide me what masters degree should i go for that would compliment my CFA... I am planning to apply for the 2012 session with two years of work experience and (hopefully) all three CFA levels cleared... I have a keen interest in Political Science, Economics and Fashion Designing... I would highly value and appreciate if you could guide me with some of the best programmes related to economics/political or any other that could compliment my CFA and push towards a more diverse role at work. Thanks&Regrads [email protected] 091-999903163

 

Use the search function in the upper right hand corner, there are quite a few topics about your issue...perhaps even precisely what you're looking for. Passing the Level 1 CFA will certainly lend credibility to your cause, that having been said, a JD already makes you credible...really depend on your own set of opportunity costs.

IMHO, it's going to be a lot more about networking and finding a good fit in your situation.

 

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