Do investment bankers really make all that money compared to other professions...?
So everyone makes a big fuss about how rosily ibankers are compensated versus other professions. Is all that hyperbole really justified?
http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Salary/Google-Software...
I looked up Glassdoor here as well as my university's career services reports. It seems banking analysts straight out of undergrad make about 60k base + 55k bonus on average. Big deal. Software engineers at Google (and I assume software engineer is the entry level position for students going into software development who are hired right out of undergrad plus maybe 1-2 years work exp) make about 100k base and get a 20k bonus + stock options. So don't computer science majors and software engineers at the top tech companies make more money than bankers in the bulge bracket? Even at the VP level annual compansation is about 350k (and you need to grind your a** for 5-7 years to get to VP) by which time you can get promoted to a pretty senior software engineer o tech mananger at Google and earn more or less the same money. So if good bankers are paid the same/less than good engineers for much longer hours, how is the hype justified? Excuse me if I am being ignorant-I am new to the forum..






Welcome to WSO! Nobody has
Welcome to WSO!
Nobody has said that Banking/Finance is the only way to make it (especially nobody here).
Do what you like to do, have the passion for it and if you work hard you can make it in any industry. This can be medicine, music/entertainment, industrial/manufacturing, law, telecoms or anything else!
If you really like Finance/Banking as a subject matter you will have no problem putting in the effort and hours. If you only do it because of the paycheck then you might end up being miserable.
BenedictPowers: Welcome to
Welcome to WSO!
Nobody has said that Banking/Finance is the only way to make it (especially nobody here).
Do what you like to do, have the passion for it and if you work hard you can make it in any industry. This can be medicine, music/entertainment, industrial/manufacturing, law, telecoms or anything else!
If you really like Finance/Banking as a subject matter you will have no problem putting in the effort and hours. If you only do it because of the paycheck then you might end up being miserable.
^that
Also, there is a huge amount
Also, there is a huge amount of variation of how much financiers make. Salary increases exponentially as opposed to linearly as you move up in ranks.
BenedictPowers: Welcome to
Welcome to WSO!
Nobody has said that Banking/Finance is the only way to make it (especially nobody here).
Do what you like to do, have the passion for it and if you work hard you can make it in any industry. This can be medicine, music/entertainment, industrial/manufacturing, law, telecoms or anything else!
If you really like Finance/Banking as a subject matter you will have no problem putting in the effort and hours. If you only do it because of the paycheck then you might end up being miserable.
Right, but what I want to know is- why all the hype? On the news, Internet and general media about investment bankers making a ton of money if employees of tech companies do the same thing...is it because the salary is disproportionate to the skill set/value added to society by bankers as opposed to engineers or something?
dreamer1992: Right, but what
Right, but what I want to know is- why all the hype? On the news, Internet and general media about investment bankers making a ton of money if employees of tech companies do the same thing...is it because the salary is disproportionate to the skill set/value added to society by bankers as opposed to engineers or something?
I hate victims who respect their executioners
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You are looking at entry
You are looking at entry level salaries (and you IBD data is old...base went up to 70k a few years back).
Out of undegrad, the engineer probably wins on a cash-flow basis (Mountain View is cheaper than NYC), but the rate of salary growth is much slower. His salary will top out at 200k to 250k after around 15 years. You make that after 3 years in IB. If you stuck around in IB for that long (god bless you masochistic soul...) you would be a MD pulling in $2 million plus.
If you exit, you would probably be a partner (or close to it) in a PE firm. Even a middle market firm will have you breaking $1 million, with more reasonable hours.
Of course, these are assuming you stay in finance, and the engineer remains an engineer.
Nobody is calling first year analysts "fat cats"...they live in crappy studios or share apartments. The anger is at the executives, who got paid very well while the public thought they nearly blew up the economy.
BlackHat: dreamer1992: Righ
Right, but what I want to know is- why all the hype? On the news, Internet and general media about investment bankers making a ton of money if employees of tech companies do the same thing...is it because the salary is disproportionate to the skill set/value added to society by bankers as opposed to engineers or something?
Yeah well. You know what I think it makes a lot more sense to become an engineer than to become a banker. You don't have to work 100 hours a week, make more money, have more time to chill with friends and get laid. Besides you get to work with actually smart people, not some slacking business majors. Plus it's not as if you have to go to med school or something. Why would anyone bother to do banking for the money if there are other, much better ways to make the same money? It's just silly.
BlackHat: dreamer1992: Righ
Right, but what I want to know is- why all the hype? On the news, Internet and general media about investment bankers making a ton of money if employees of tech companies do the same thing...is it because the salary is disproportionate to the skill set/value added to society by bankers as opposed to engineers or something?
Yeah well. You know what I think it makes a lot more sense to become an engineer than to become a banker. You don't have to work 100 hours a week, make more money, have more time to chill with friends and get laid. Besides you get to work with actually smart people, not some slacking business majors. Plus it's not as if you have to go to med school or something. Why would anyone bother to do banking for the money if there are other, much better ways to make the same money? It's just silly.
dreamer1992: BlackHat: dr
Right, but what I want to know is- why all the hype? On the news, Internet and general media about investment bankers making a ton of money if employees of tech companies do the same thing...is it because the salary is disproportionate to the skill set/value added to society by bankers as opposed to engineers or something?
Yeah well. You know what I think it makes a lot more sense to become an engineer than to become a banker. You don't have to work 100 hours a week, make more money, have more time to chill with friends and get laid. Besides you get to work with actually smart people, not some slacking business majors. Plus it's not as if you have to go to med school or something. Why would anyone bother to do banking for the money if there are other, much better ways to make the same money? It's just silly.
You have no clue what you are talking about. If you think software engineers only work 40 hours a week your out of your mind.
Also, this whole forum is dellusional if you think software engineers stay in software development I would say about 90% of them go on for masters degrees & MBAs.
Also, if you think
Also, if you think SEC/SOXregulations are bad wait untill you have to deal with internal controles as a software engineer.
blastoise: You have no clue
You have no clue what you are talking about. If you think software engineers only work 40 hours a week your out of your mind.
Also, this whole forum is dellusional if you think software engineers stay in software development I would say about 90% of them go on for masters degrees & MBAs.
This. At Google, they are looking at 60-70+...there is a reason why they serve 3 meals a day.
Also, as a SWE, you have a decaying skillset. Primetime for engineers is mid to late 20's, then you are perceived as being slower (and more expensive) than new grads. For the engineers that stay in software, it is not uncommon to be forced out, then get a job that pays less than what you made out of college.
So, a lot of engineers move into MBA programs. There, they compete for I-banking/F500/Consulting jobs, just like a banker. But, their options are more limited when if comes to the buyside and pure finance jobs (with the notable exception of VC...)
I don't really understand why
I don't really understand why people think it really matters what you are making as a 1st or 2nd year analyst.
dreamer1992: BlackHat: dr
Right, but what I want to know is- why all the hype? On the news, Internet and general media about investment bankers making a ton of money if employees of tech companies do the same thing...is it because the salary is disproportionate to the skill set/value added to society by bankers as opposed to engineers or something?
Yeah well. You know what I think it makes a lot more sense to become an engineer than to become a banker. You don't have to work 100 hours a week, make more money, have more time to chill with friends and get laid. Besides you get to work with actually smart people, not some slacking business majors. Plus it's not as if you have to go to med school or something. Why would anyone bother to do banking for the money if there are other, much better ways to make the same money? It's just silly.
this is ridiculously ignorant and retardedly uninformed.
dreamer1992: Yeah well. You
Yeah well. You know what I think it makes a lot more sense to become an engineer than to become a banker. You don't have to work 100 hours a week, make more money, have more time to chill with friends and get laid. Besides you get to work with actually smart people, not some slacking business majors. Plus it's not as if you have to go to med school or something. Why would anyone bother to do banking for the money if there are other, much better ways to make the same money? It's just silly.
What a generalization. I know my fair share of people in development who are nowhere near smart. Tried talking with a PM from a top firm (Microsoft/Google/Apple, etc.) a while ago; the guy could barely hold a conversation and couldn't grasp the simplest of concepts that I was trying to explain to him. At smaller firms, software devs can be equally dumbwitted. That said, I do know really brilliant people in both CS and finance. You can't generalize like that and not have people jump down your throat.
"slacking business majors" don't get (or want to get) into i-banking. For that matter, "slacking business majors" wouldn't want to work jobs with 80- to 100-hour weeks; most likely your "slacking business majors" are the ones who went into some form of marketing. Or payroll accounting. "Better ways to make the same money" is debatable, and most individuals in i-banking aren't planning to stay long-term; it's just a good launchpad for the rest of their career.
"Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
Currently: quantitative marketing/business development
Previously: management consulting, investment banking
West Coast
You have no clue what you are talking about. If you think software engineers only work 40 hours a week your out of your mind.
Also, this whole forum is dellusional if you think software engineers stay in software development I would say about 90% of them go on for masters degrees & MBAs.
This. At Google, they are looking at 60-70+...there is a reason why they serve 3 meals a day.
Also, as a SWE, you have a decaying skillset. Primetime for engineers is mid to late 20's, then you are perceived as being slower (and more expensive) than new grads. For the engineers that stay in software, it is not uncommon to be forced out, then get a job that pays less than what you made out of college.
So, a lot of engineers move into MBA programs. There, they compete for I-banking/F500/Consulting jobs, just like a banker. But, their options are more limited when if comes to the buyside and pure finance jobs (with the notable exception of VC...)
I'm not working at a pure software firm, but the software people/it people easily work 60+, firms just don't let coders/it personal run wild letting them upgrade/patch what ever therere little hearts desire
no matter what your first job
Oh Google? Because ANYBODY
"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan
350k for a VP? There are
Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews
Banking Resume
dreamer1992: BlackHat: dr
You have to work long hours
"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger
Depends as a Banker you have
Everyone shut up about
I didn't wanna chime in, but
I hate victims who respect their executioners
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Because banking is the
Deleted
"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger
PetEng: Because banking is
BlackHat: I didn't wanna
PetEng: BlackHat: I didn't
I hate victims who respect their executioners
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You actually need to be
I plan to get rich by