Global Capital Markets - Exit opps?

good time to get into ecm with the ipo market back. exit opps are usually hf's, but wouldn't be surprised if pe's come knocking on your door since you would have had so much ipo/div recap experience under your belt. convert markets are very hot - good mix of ecm and derivs if that's what you like.

levfin is levfin. you know the story. good exit ops to hfs and pe's. high yield bond markets have been back. levloans may be coming next esp with the warner chilcott deal. make sure levfin does the lbo modeling and it's not too much of a syndicate role. unless syndication is what you're looking to do...

derivatives as a junior guy makes you pigeon holed (in my opinion). derivs can be deriv solutions where you structure unique transactions to fit a particular situation. not so much transferrable from deal to deal. derivs trading is good since to trade those products, you have to understand the underlying assets which can be very complicated at times.

Wouldn't suggest ECM. Have a bunch of friends in ECM and there is no modeling involved. So exit opps are very limited. Seem some people go to investor relations, haven't seen anyone go to a HF. They prefer bankers who have valuation experience, or traders who have trading experience. Not someone in between.

What kind of roles do ECM guys move to when they go into HFs cause they can just a trader for trading and ib for research/pm and sales for marketing. So just investor relations?

Thanks for the responses guys. Interesting that you both had opposite views on exit opps for ECM. I wonder if it depends on the bank? I'd be working for one that's had pretty good dealflow lately - one of MS/GS/JPM. Additional questions: LeggoMyGekko - are you referring to equity or fixed income derivatives? Do banks issue equity derivatives themselves, outside of converts? Madgames - what other exit opps have you seen for ECM besides HF/investor relations?

^ MBA school.

ECM has no transferable skills at any bank.

You're not an expert trader, you don't know valuation.

Would be very tough to move to a HF. Likely move is to B-school, IBD or something random.

My friend works at JPM.

your value as a ecm banker lies with the number of transactions you've completed. your value as a coverage banker lies with your depth of knowledge of the few transactions you've done.

ecm rarely does modeling, but ecm syndicate is where hf exit ops come in. they speak with so many syndicate and institutional investors that they've already made relationships early on.

Capital markets = a black hole

you're stuck and its very hard to get out.

brisbane you're defending cap markets bc you fucking work at shitty dcm at td securities in god knows where canada, land of ugly women and crappy tim hortons coffee.

brisbane makes a good point. If you like coming in at 8am and working till 9pm 5-6 days a week making meaningless market updates that people can get from cnbc than you may actually like capital markets and make a career out of it.

Enjoy.

sternmasta should be banned. no value added in any comments he posts.

lol brisbane... capital markets sucks dude

leggo: suck it i bring in more views and FLOW into this website than u ever will. everyone knows i'm the mostpopular

and by the way CAPITAL MARKETS is for ugly state school tards with a 3.0. some idiot from capital markets (like at citi) is worse than ibd at piper jaffray lol

You go to Stern, dude. You shouldn't be talking shit. And neither should someone who calls himself "wannabebankerman" and is interviewing for internships.

.

But still, is capital markets, particularly ECM boring work? I'm looking at an offer from a GS/MS/JPM-type BB in capital markets (probably ECM), vs. a slightly lower-tier Citi/BAML-type BB in S&T. I'm thinking I want to go for the better bank, plus I liked the people at the capital markets BB better. Not sure what exit opps I want but what I don't want is an analyst role that gives me no discernable skill.

Take the lower tier. Capital markets has 0 exit opps.

If your choices are btw a top BB in CM then a mid BB in S&T it depends on what you want to be doing 5 years from now and you should take this into consideration.

PS citi =/= BAML

bump

I was wondering about the hours as well. If anyone could shed some light on expected hours for an ECM analyst that would be great

ECM hours: 8am - 9:30pm (on average) Def later if you're working on live deals or IPO pitches. Expect to be in the office for at least a couple hours on Sunday as well.

Sounds about right, but look there are people who like it so choose at your own risk.

Lev fin comes under capital markets in some places though, often straddles IBD and DCM and as long as you are doing the modelling you're fine.

Standard DCM is pretty dull compared to Lev Fin in my experience.

ECM - not a massive fan personally, I think things are better than some here try to make out, I know people who lateralled inside to m&a teams and therefore avoided serious exit issues.

I'm not interested in moving to PE, and prefer being in a markets facing role where you get to interact with both IBD and S&T. If anything I would like to do a few years in origination or syndicate and move to a sales desk. If I end up needing to go to MBA to pursue something else, then so be it.

why dont you just go to sales directly?

Wasn't able to secure an offer in S&T unfortunately.

Sounds about right. I know a bunch of state school 3.4 kids at Citi's CMO. Don't all analyst roles require 2 years MINIMUM before even considering letting you move anywhere?

I know kids from Penn, MIT, and Princeton in capital markets (at top BBs like GS/MS).

Yeah cap markets is a mixed bag, some really smarts kids and then a few randoms.

also seems like gs/ms > citi's cap markets

Prob because cap markets has few exit opps and in a sense pidgeonholes you. Most bankers on here can verify that.

his role there will be the same type of role he did in ECM, just wont have the skillset of a banker

but i guess if u like it then do it

for a first-year analyst and a major BB, what kind of bonus (salary range) can/should I expect?

A few guys I spoke with at a TARP BB told me that they received the same bonus #s as the IBD

are you kidding me? MS/Citi/JPM come to mind... they killed the capital markets team by 50%. ECM is the first to fire in downturn. I workd in Capital Markets

The reason you work with MDs is because they dont have the relationships IBD MDs do with the clients and they get paid less. What does it say about them that they are working with internal analysts/associates then wining and dining clients? ibd brings the deals in.

There are more people who get promoted up because they can't go to better jobs/buyside,

Deal of the day... anyway, if you have the choice between IBD vs, ECM go to IBD.

Simple working in DCM/ECM as many of my friends did will not get into BX/KKR/etc, most kids who want banking HF/PE is their goal. It's hard to get there with DCM, but you can not deny otherwise the hours/work/deal flow/clinet interaction do make it attractive as an opportunity.

What are the top banks for capital markets?

There seems to be a lot of criticism about capital markets on this forum. However, if I don't want to work in HF/PE after two years and want a career in finance where I have opportunities to stay long term, would capital markets be a good place to start?

gs ecm had a role in nearly a quarter of all equity issuances on the street, but excluding bought deals... they lag other ecms on the street. gs' risk appetite for follow-ons is far greater than what i see at other banks.

ms ecm has great relationships across the street, but doesn't have a balance sheet like baml, citi or jpm. clients often tie lending and advisory businesses, so be on the lookout for that tid bit

Can anyone on here speak to DCM/FICM (relative merits, etc.)?

i hear a lot of different opinions but what are the standard exit opps for Capital Markets?

How hard is it go get into PE/HF and if not those what else is there? business school?

how hard is it to move from capital markets to a traditional banking role within the bank?

Not hard, but not very easy. I did it. Really requires support from your current MDs etc.

PM for more information.

I already posted a thread about this but there seems to be a lot of polarizing comments on Capital Markets on this thread. What do you guys think about a LevFin experience at a bank like BAML/JPM where they have the balance sheet to throw around and are involved in a lot of deals? From what I've been told, it seems like a LevFin program at one of these BBs is good experience and can get you up with the knowledge for decent PE or an MBA program later. What about lateral movements from levfin to IBD?

I'm not sure why so many people take a low view of capital markets here, especially when they are just in college. It is true that I sometimes want to strangle the HY folks when I need input on pricing at 8pm and they have already gone home for the day. But I digress.

I would consider capital markets as an awesome route for people who are not concerned with exit ops. Lifestyle is great. Pay is somewhat less than IBD, but still very good, especially considering the amount of hours they work. Teams are small and tight-knit. For these reasons, there tends to be more women on this side of things.

People are jealous of cap markets sometimes - especially after 2H 2009 ...

There are EDs in ECM pulling in more than a junior - med level MD in coverage haha -

So bash all you want about it being a "black-hole" but I know at least 5 people I can think of immediately who went to 1) HF 2) VC 3) Top 5 b school 4) IBD so I don't see that as too pigeon-holed

Yes PE is rarer.

Also, depending on what bank you're at, some cap markets groups are a bit more modeling intensive while others are more markets intensive (you speak to investors)

For example, BAML ECM analysts also do syndicate stuff while some oither BB ECM analysts have eto understand valuation... there are certain houses that do a mix of both and some that do none

At the end of the day, your experience is the product and the clients and the deals you've done. Also, just because you're in coverage doesn't mean your experience / relationship with a client is better than your CM counterpart ... i know many cases where that's the opposite ...

Sht I'd love to do a stint in CM but anyway, I digress

Is there any quant side to GCM? I have an interview with them on-site as part of the Quant finance program in Global Capital Market Strats team.