Global Capital Markets - Exit opps?
Can someone tell me about Global Capital Markets? What are the work, pay, and hours like? Exit opps for ECM vs. DCM vs. Derivatives?
Can someone tell me about Global Capital Markets? What are the work, pay, and hours like? Exit opps for ECM vs. DCM vs. Derivatives?
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good time to get into ecm with the ipo market back. exit opps are usually hf's, but wouldn't be surprised if pe's come knocking on your door since you would have had so much ipo/div recap experience under your belt. convert markets are very hot - good mix of ecm and derivs if that's what you like.
levfin is levfin. you know the story. good exit ops to hfs and pe's. high yield bond markets have been back. levloans may be coming next esp with the warner chilcott deal. make sure levfin does the lbo modeling and it's not too much of a syndicate role. unless syndication is what you're looking to do...
derivatives as a junior guy makes you pigeon holed (in my opinion). derivs can be deriv solutions where you structure unique transactions to fit a particular situation. not so much transferrable from deal to deal. derivs trading is good since to trade those products, you have to understand the underlying assets which can be very complicated at times.
Wouldn't suggest ECM. Have a bunch of friends in ECM and there is no modeling involved. So exit opps are very limited. Seem some people go to investor relations, haven't seen anyone go to a HF. They prefer bankers who have valuation experience, or traders who have trading experience. Not someone in between.
What kind of roles do ECM guys move to when they go into HFs cause they can just a trader for trading and ib for research/pm and sales for marketing. So just investor relations?
Thanks for the responses guys. Interesting that you both had opposite views on exit opps for ECM. I wonder if it depends on the bank? I'd be working for one that's had pretty good dealflow lately - one of MS/GS/JPM. Additional questions: LeggoMyGekko - are you referring to equity or fixed income derivatives? Do banks issue equity derivatives themselves, outside of converts? Madgames - what other exit opps have you seen for ECM besides HF/investor relations?
^ MBA school.
ECM has no transferable skills at any bank.
You're not an expert trader, you don't know valuation.
Would be very tough to move to a HF. Likely move is to B-school, IBD or something random.
My friend works at JPM.
your value as a ecm banker lies with the number of transactions you've completed. your value as a coverage banker lies with your depth of knowledge of the few transactions you've done.
ecm rarely does modeling, but ecm syndicate is where hf exit ops come in. they speak with so many syndicate and institutional investors that they've already made relationships early on.
Capital markets = a black hole
you're stuck and its very hard to get out.
All the talk about exit opps on this website is completely absurd -- people who don't even have jobs yet looking for jobs that best set them up to leave said jobs.
On another note, maybe he might actually like capital markets? Lifestyle is better than in IBD, pay is only marginally worse and you can move up fast and don't need an MBA to do so.
brisbane you're defending cap markets bc you fucking work at shitty dcm at td securities in god knows where canada, land of ugly women and crappy tim hortons coffee.
brisbane makes a good point. If you like coming in at 8am and working till 9pm 5-6 days a week making meaningless market updates that people can get from cnbc than you may actually like capital markets and make a career out of it.
Enjoy.
sternmasta should be banned. no value added in any comments he posts.
lol brisbane... capital markets sucks dude
leggo: suck it i bring in more views and FLOW into this website than u ever will. everyone knows i'm the mostpopular
and by the way CAPITAL MARKETS is for ugly state school tards with a 3.0. some idiot from capital markets (like at citi) is worse than ibd at piper jaffray lol
You go to Stern, dude. You shouldn't be talking shit. And neither should someone who calls himself "wannabebankerman" and is interviewing for internships.
.
But still, is capital markets, particularly ECM boring work? I'm looking at an offer from a GS/MS/JPM-type BB in capital markets (probably ECM), vs. a slightly lower-tier Citi/BAML-type BB in S&T. I'm thinking I want to go for the better bank, plus I liked the people at the capital markets BB better. Not sure what exit opps I want but what I don't want is an analyst role that gives me no discernable skill.
Take the lower tier. Capital markets has 0 exit opps.
If your choices are btw a top BB in CM then a mid BB in S&T it depends on what you want to be doing 5 years from now and you should take this into consideration.
PS citi =/= BAML
I'm not sure yet what I want to do in 5 years - whether I want to go to the PE side or portfolio management or something else. I just know I want a job right now that gives me a lot of learning opportunities. What would you suggest?
bump
I was wondering about the hours as well. If anyone could shed some light on expected hours for an ECM analyst that would be great
ECM hours: 8am - 9:30pm (on average) Def later if you're working on live deals or IPO pitches. Expect to be in the office for at least a couple hours on Sunday as well.
Sounds about right, but look there are people who like it so choose at your own risk.
Lev fin comes under capital markets in some places though, often straddles IBD and DCM and as long as you are doing the modelling you're fine.
Standard DCM is pretty dull compared to Lev Fin in my experience.
ECM - not a massive fan personally, I think things are better than some here try to make out, I know people who lateralled inside to m&a teams and therefore avoided serious exit issues.
I'm not interested in moving to PE, and prefer being in a markets facing role where you get to interact with both IBD and S&T. If anything I would like to do a few years in origination or syndicate and move to a sales desk. If I end up needing to go to MBA to pursue something else, then so be it.
why dont you just go to sales directly?
Wasn't able to secure an offer in S&T unfortunately.
Sounds about right. I know a bunch of state school 3.4 kids at Citi's CMO. Don't all analyst roles require 2 years MINIMUM before even considering letting you move anywhere?
I know kids from Penn, MIT, and Princeton in capital markets (at top BBs like GS/MS).
Yeah cap markets is a mixed bag, some really smarts kids and then a few randoms.
That's true of any division in banking or trading, except for maybe GS quant strategies desk or something. Some get in because they're legitimately good, some just know how to game the interviews, some have connections.
Seems like most of the capital markets bashing comes from banking-or-die freaks who have no experience themselves (not saying that's you madgames)
also seems like gs/ms > citi's cap markets
Prob because cap markets has few exit opps and in a sense pidgeonholes you. Most bankers on here can verify that.
Maybe it's so awesome you don't want to exit :)
In all seriousness though, my friend from MIT who's in his 2nd year did a lot of IPO work and is being recruited by TPG growth and a few west coast VC firms.
his role there will be the same type of role he did in ECM, just wont have the skillset of a banker
but i guess if u like it then do it
for a first-year analyst and a major BB, what kind of bonus (salary range) can/should I expect?
A few guys I spoke with at a TARP BB told me that they received the same bonus #s as the IBD
Seems like a lot of people are talking negatively about ECM/DCM without any experience in capital markets. Here are just a few comments I would make...I work in ECM
I love my hours, I get in at 8:30 in the morning and out at 7-8pm at night. I rarely work on the weekends (occasionally during live deals)
I love getting email at the middle of the night from banking analysts (like those above) asking for help on something they should already know (since they are so intelligent and came from Ivy league). I normally just ignore them since I am already sleeping
I work directly with VPs, directors and MDs on each deal, rather than getting staffed by associates or other analysts on random tasks
I hate getting on the phone explaining simple derivative concepts to bankers who only wants the answer so they can relate the message to their superiors (without understanding what it means) or lack the will to learn something new
I like the fact that in capital markets, you have very specific knowledge about a product - This is good because it makes you important and cannot be easily replace (even in junior level - very important last year during layoffs). This is also bad because it means you can become obsolete when your product dies, or like others have said - exit opportunities are limited
I like the fact that it is much easier to be promoted to associate/VP in capital markets than banking, and you can stay as long as you want if you are competent
In capital markets you have a lot more deal flow. There have been weeks where I worked on 2-3 live deals, vs in banking normally you are focused on 1 major project.
As an analyst or associate, you get paid the same as banking
Those are just thoughts that came to my mind, I am sure some will disagree. Hope this is helpful.
are you kidding me? MS/Citi/JPM come to mind... they killed the capital markets team by 50%. ECM is the first to fire in downturn. I workd in Capital Markets
The reason you work with MDs is because they dont have the relationships IBD MDs do with the clients and they get paid less. What does it say about them that they are working with internal analysts/associates then wining and dining clients? ibd brings the deals in.
There are more people who get promoted up because they can't go to better jobs/buyside,
Deal of the day... anyway, if you have the choice between IBD vs, ECM go to IBD.
No I am not kidding you
Where I work none of the analyst were fired during layoffs, few associates quit and went to different jobs (on their own). LevFin groups got killed because their products got killed.
Capital markets groups are not a huge pyramid like a typical coverage team. As an analyst you have a lot more interaction with senior group members rather than associates/VPs.
If you think you win business by wining and dining clients, you probably haven't been in the business long enough. IBD might have the relationship, but they have no clue about the products and how to sell them, otherwise why do you have the product guys go to the meetings. Why do you think certain banks are known for their equity or debt platforms? Would you trust the guy at UBS to do your addon or convert just because he's your buddy and he takes you out to dinners (and he has only done a couple of deals this year despite all the IBD MDs are supposely out bringing in deals)?
I said it was easier to get promoted not more people get promoted. This is because the groups are usually more lean, making it easier to move up.
The good thing about capital markets is that you are actually in connection with the buyside. We talk to them and work with them on each deal. I know my MD would be able to help me get a job on the other side if I want to. Would your IBD MD able to/even care about helping you?
At the end of the day, it's your choice of lifestyle, type of work, and the people you work with.
Simple working in DCM/ECM as many of my friends did will not get into BX/KKR/etc, most kids who want banking HF/PE is their goal. It's hard to get there with DCM, but you can not deny otherwise the hours/work/deal flow/clinet interaction do make it attractive as an opportunity.
What are the top banks for capital markets?
There seems to be a lot of criticism about capital markets on this forum. However, if I don't want to work in HF/PE after two years and want a career in finance where I have opportunities to stay long term, would capital markets be a good place to start?
GS and MS. GS is stronger on the debt side, and MS on the equity/IPO side.
gs ecm had a role in nearly a quarter of all equity issuances on the street, but excluding bought deals... they lag other ecms on the street. gs' risk appetite for follow-ons is far greater than what i see at other banks.
ms ecm has great relationships across the street, but doesn't have a balance sheet like baml, citi or jpm. clients often tie lending and advisory businesses, so be on the lookout for that tid bit
Thanks! Could anyone tell me more about the reputation of capital markets at baml/citi/jpm, as well as deal flow and overall analyst experience?
Can anyone on here speak to DCM/FICM (relative merits, etc.)?
i hear a lot of different opinions but what are the standard exit opps for Capital Markets?
How hard is it go get into PE/HF and if not those what else is there? business school?
how hard is it to move from capital markets to a traditional banking role within the bank?
Not hard, but not very easy. I did it. Really requires support from your current MDs etc.
PM for more information.
I already posted a thread about this but there seems to be a lot of polarizing comments on Capital Markets on this thread. What do you guys think about a LevFin experience at a bank like BAML/JPM where they have the balance sheet to throw around and are involved in a lot of deals? From what I've been told, it seems like a LevFin program at one of these BBs is good experience and can get you up with the knowledge for decent PE or an MBA program later. What about lateral movements from levfin to IBD?
I'm not sure why so many people take a low view of capital markets here, especially when they are just in college. It is true that I sometimes want to strangle the HY folks when I need input on pricing at 8pm and they have already gone home for the day. But I digress.
I would consider capital markets as an awesome route for people who are not concerned with exit ops. Lifestyle is great. Pay is somewhat less than IBD, but still very good, especially considering the amount of hours they work. Teams are small and tight-knit. For these reasons, there tends to be more women on this side of things.
People are jealous of cap markets sometimes - especially after 2H 2009 ...
There are EDs in ECM pulling in more than a junior - med level MD in coverage haha -
So bash all you want about it being a "black-hole" but I know at least 5 people I can think of immediately who went to 1) HF 2) VC 3) Top 5 b school 4) IBD so I don't see that as too pigeon-holed
Yes PE is rarer.
Also, depending on what bank you're at, some cap markets groups are a bit more modeling intensive while others are more markets intensive (you speak to investors)
For example, BAML ECM analysts also do syndicate stuff while some oither BB ECM analysts have eto understand valuation... there are certain houses that do a mix of both and some that do none
At the end of the day, your experience is the product and the clients and the deals you've done. Also, just because you're in coverage doesn't mean your experience / relationship with a client is better than your CM counterpart ... i know many cases where that's the opposite ...
Sht I'd love to do a stint in CM but anyway, I digress
Is there any quant side to GCM? I have an interview with them on-site as part of the Quant finance program in Global Capital Market Strats team.
Global Capital Markets - Best way to prepare? (Originally Posted: 11/12/2007)
Hi All, whats the best way to prepare for a Global Capital Markets interview at a BB? also, what is the role of the intern within GCM? Many thanks
bump....anyone? Ferris?
Global Capital Markets - Hours, pay, and exit opps (Originally Posted: 12/08/2006)
How does this division rank relative to straight banking or S&T in terms of hours, pay, exit opps, and what you actually do?
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