Dear Monkeys,
I would like to know the pros and cons of choosing NY over London. Obviously, both are excellent internships but could you please tell me which one you would go for and why?
For culture, I would go with MS, mainly because I have friends there. But the people at GS are also great.
Thank you for your help!
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Where are you from? Personally it was a question of being some what close to family / friends.
The Nordics. Being close to family/friends is great but I seriously don't think that I will have a lot of time for family/friends anyway.
Bump
Here comes the life changing advice:
If you want to work in London, take GS London.
If you want to work in NY, take MS NY.
/thread
This will solely be a matter of location preference. Think about where you want to live and don't ask us whether we like/prefer NY or London.
How would I know if I have not lived in neither London nor NY before? What is wrong with trying to accumulate information in order to take an informed decision? There is nothing wrong with asking people which one they would prefer and why. This would help me take the decision. If you have nothing to add, please don't bother commenting.
I think you're right to think that being close to family in the short-term won't matter, as you likely won't get home much in your first year or two. However, you should try to think more long-term if you can. While you've got two great options, your choice today will likely have a material impact on where you are ten years from now.
General: - Group: Do you have any insight into the group you'd be in at either MS or GS? That will have a massive impact on your future, and if you think about this purely as a career decision as opposed to personal (understanding that it is, in fact, a massive personal decision), this is arguably the most important factor.
New York: - Do you have US citizenship? You obviously have the right to work in Europe, but if you are only in the States on a student Visa, I would think that there is significant benefit to working in the US after graduation if you've been given the opportunity. If you work stateside for a few years and gain dual citizenship, you've given yourself a lot more flexibility to move around in the future. I can't stress enough how hard it can be sometimes, even for very qualified people to make the move from the UK to NYC unless they're fairly senior. Got some good friends trying to do that now unsuccessfully. - Did you go to school in the US? If not, and you think you want to go to the buyside after banking, you may face additional obstacles. Not that it's going to be super hard or anything, because you'd be coming out of MS, but it's still great to be able to leverage an alumni network. Just something else to think about. - NYC is a fun city when you're in your young 20's. It's obviously expensive, but you'll make decent enough money and likely have the opportunity to do some traveling around the US. If you haven't spent much time in the States, could be a fun opportunity. - Downside, you're a prime target if our boy Trump starts a nuclear war from his Twitter account.
London: - In the long-term, do you want to be closer to your family? Are most of your friends in Scando / working in London? It's cool to go abroad for a few years, but you should realize that you're likely not just making a two year move. If you start banking in NYC, you're far more likely to go buyside in NYC / the US as opposed to having the opportunity to go back to Europe. You'll get more flexibility as you get a bit more senior, and then even that fades away because you will develop a specialty. - Your group is particularly important in London with regards to Brexit. I would imagine the group is fine if they're bringing on interns, but you never know. For example, I've heard the guys in real estate teams at the big banks aren't doing shit. Don't know enough about other groups to comment. - I personally love London. I wouldn't do it now, because I really dig my job in the States, but I would move there in a heart beat for a few years all else equal. Probably biased though becuase I go to London to vist friends as opposed to actually working there. Bound to get rose colored vision of a city if all you do is go there and party and never actually have to go through the every day minutiae.
I can't tell you which one you should pick, because I don't know enough about you, but those are what I see as some of the key factors.
Piggybacking off saconsult3 - would add the following as I looked into both opportunities as well.
Sponsorship: - Assuming you have received an MS IBD SA offer, you have some right to work in the States as the firm does not sponsor international students.
Deal Staffing / Group Placement: - In addition to traditional coverage groups, LDN IB has country teams, which can make or break the experience. Simply put, language factors into (if not determines) group placement in LDN. GS TMT / IND, for instance, had (still has?) a Nordic lean when I looked into GS LDN. In the event you speak a mother tongue from your Nordic background, it could help you place into that group. Speaking multiple european languages means getting pulled onto country specific deals / teams, which only enhances you analyst experience. For me, this was a weakness as I speak English and non-European languages. - In the States, this is less significant as cross-border transactions are rare. Within the FIG and TMT space, I have seen some LatAm coverage groups but these are more informal and smaller. - The GS IBD internship in LDN is rotational (half the summer in a coverage group; the other half in a financing one). As such, you can receive a return offer from either rotation. Here again, I have heard language plays a role as your coverage group may need to fill a specific language hole and will prefer the intern that speaks that language to an equally strong candidate who does not. In MS IBD NY you sit in one coverage group for the duration of the summer. - Unfortunately, I did not look into MS or many other banks in LDN to know if structure is similar, so I'm not sure the extent to which GS differs from the rest of the street.
Market / Deal Size: - London is a smaller market. Very few billion dollar transactions being announced in the region. This didn't matter much to me, but it was a recurring point in conversations with LDN associates / VPs. Very common to see blockbuster consumer, tech, financial institutions transactions out of NY.
Exit Opportunities - Generally tough to recruit out of banking to a role in the other country (i.e. if you want to go NY to LDN or vice versa, you will likely need to do a third year in banking in the other country before exiting).
Culture: - Personal decision but cultures at the banks are very different. I found people at MS to be much more relaxed overall.
Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.
Thanks,
Two great answers thanks. After careful consideration, I am going for London. Mainly because I see myself spending a long-term career in Europe. It will be easier to switch careers here if I turn out to be a useless banker. I have a good network within the MBB firms as well as PE firms such as EQT, Permira, FSN etc. NY would be fun but it is in no way logical to go there for an internship if it doesn't suit my long-term career goals.
NYC street base pay for IBD is currently 15k-20k above London because of the weak pound. Take that (plus taxes and living expenses, naturally) into account.
I will not make any profit during the internships. It'll be "easy come, easy go". Specially when I would have to relocate from Europe and find an apartment in Manhattan.
you sound like you're from london!
do you attend a school in UK?
how did it go that way?
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