Is Apple really that different from RIM?

After watching Apple’s key note from today (also followed slashgear.com’s live blog), I was left rather disappointed from an innovative stand point. The new MacBook Pro got a nice little update; however, it was only evolutionary and not revolutionary. IOS 6 as well got a few new features and an overall update; however, evolutionary not revolutionary. It is hard to imagine, but has the tech giant gone stagnant? Was the death of Steve Jobs really the death of Apple’s innovation? I know some will say that iPhone 5 has yet to be released; but… it will run on IOS 6, therefore what kind of anticipation is left? Style? Battery life? Really?? This all leads me to my main observation of a possible similarity between RIMM and Apple. Blackberry at one time owned the smartphone industry and was an absolute juggernaut. Apple is in a similar position today. Is Apple slowing? What kind of time frame do all you monkeys have for Apples demise (if at all)? As a company they are outstanding, but as we all have seen with RIMM, tech is either innovate or be left behind.

 
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Too be fair, even during Job's reign the company has been going through stagnation. No longer are they coming out with new products that are taking the market by storm. Instead they have reverted into the safety net that is just upgrading their prior products. While the evolution of products are important so is the integration of new products. On top of that they really dropped the ball in their key note, there was little mention of the iTV, or w/e you want to call it, which in my opinion is the only innovative product linked with them. But, they also pretty much gave the summer market to Android and Google. The only interesting thing mentioned was their map app.

It's too early to really make a call on the company, they're still going through a transition and it'll take a while for Tim Cook to get his vision into motion. But, once he does they'll be back at making new, overpriced, user friendly products that all my hipster friend will be raving about.

Personal wealth is not how much you have in the bank or the worth of your portfolio. But, rather how you've used the wealth to make your life and those around you better.
 

^^^ I completely agree that Apple did very little (if not nothing) to slow the growing momentum of Android. iTV is still a huge mystery and at this point I feel it may be a thin TV with retina display and the sam software from the current Apple TV device. Does Tim Cook really have the vision to pull off something spectacular?

 

I mean, how many times can you create a completely new market? -iPod: First (only?) successful MP3 player -iPhone: First touchscreen smart-phone -iTunes: First viable "for-pay" digital marketplace (including the invention of the App business model) -iPad: First tablet

^^That is a pretty solid decade's worth of work if you ask me.

However, all of these innovations play off the same digital eco-system. The question is, can they continue to expand its reach?

 
illiniPride:
I mean, how many times can you create a completely new market? -iPod: First (only?) successful MP3 player -iPhone: First touchscreen smart-phone* -iTunes: First viable "for-pay" digital marketplace (including the invention of the App business model) -iPad: First tablet*
*that people actually bought
 

^^^ This is exactly what I mean. Has Apple done all it can do? What else is there for the company to do? It stated a push toward putting Siri into cars, but that is again more evolutionary then revolutionary. It is very hard to think they could ever peak with the line up just stated. The company has flat out changed how we do things and our overall preferences.

 

It takes time to innovate. Apple can't/won't be stagnant in their sales because they already have such a dominant hold on their markets. People will always flock in droves to purchase the latest Apple technology, even if it is only a slight bump.

Illin, once again hit it right on the dot. Apple has waited to see what devices would be "hot", researched and delivered products vastly superior to their competitors for a decade. Until someone comes remotely close to doing just that (ie making a superior mp3 player or better tablet), there isn't much need to release revolutionary products at every conference like they used to.

 

When Apple releases a new product, it is arguably the best product at that price point on the market (my opinion).

Now, some news.

Developers like iOS more than Android, they get more money.

iOS is updated across all idevices. Android ICS, is currently on less than 10% of devices, and it was released 8 months ago. And many are talking about Google's Jelly Bean, Android 5.0.

Iphone Outsold Android in Q4.

I also belive many Android users would benefit from the switch to Iphone. Why? Android was designed so the user could customize their phone experience. How many of your friends/family do this? For me, its less than 10%, but I don't hang with a tech savvy crowd.

My WSO Blog "Unbelievably Believable" -- RG3
 
21 Lives:
I also belive many Android users would benefit from the switch to Iphone. Why? Android was designed so the user could customize their phone experience. How many of your friends/family do this? For me, its less than 10%, but I don't hang with a tech savvy crowd.

This is a very good point. Although Droid may be better/more powerful/more customizable or whatever the techies say about it, most people barely know how to use their simple iPhone (but still love it). Thats what makes apple so successful, all the non-tech savvy consumers are spending the extra cash to buy their products

Plus, as everything becomes more and more cloud-connected, people will seek the easy syncing of having an iPod, iPad, iPhone, macbook pro and eventually iTV

Array
 

As has been previously stated, only a minute percentage of Android users actually fully utilize their device the way it was designed. The other problem is that in reality only a handful of the myriad devices out their actually receive continuing support for hacking and customizing. I was lucky enough to have randomly chosen the Droid X when I first got a phone, which had a huge geek following, but after I changed my model the support dropped out and it went downhill from there. Add me to the list of people who're lining up to get the next iPhone...

But in response to OP's question...it's laughable to compare the two companies. One presentation and everyone's talking about Apple's eventual demise...I lol'ed.

 

The difference between RIM and Apple is that when you bought a blackberry you only had a blackberry. You didn't have any integration between other devices you had. I think some people talked about the entire ecosystem and that to me is exactly why Apple is so dominant. You can't just have a macbook or an iphone.. you need both. Then you get an Ipad and then eventually maybe an apple TV (The current version, not the rumored television set). Once all of those are integrated the switching cost becomes extraordinarily high. I've been through about 5 iphone 4's and I will keep going back to the trough because the damn thing seamlessly integrates with the rest of my devices. I used to despise apple computers and anything that wasn't an iphone but once I had the iphone, ipod and Ipad it was just a natural progression. Is it as maleable as, say, a windows computer? Not in the least. Do I care? Not particularly. Having all these devices sync and move instantly without any issues is awesome. Can I do this with other products, of course! Apple doesn't re-invent the wheel most of the time, it just makes the wheel more effective and usable in ways we never thought possible before. How many of us had that awesome sony walkman MP3 stick when you were paying $100 for 256MB (That's megabytes) of storage for songs. That was in way before the Ipod, but nowadays people go, "Whats an MP3 player? You mean an Ipod?" That is what makes apple different than RIM. Will it end up being outclassed by someone eventually, of course. That's how technology works.

RIM screwed up when it had massive amounts of market share and never went about integrating their experience to other aspects of their users life. Einhorn said it best, that Apple isn't a hardware company its a software company. RIM is a hardware company. They had a phone that could scroll through emails quickly, had an awesome tactile keyboard that made it easy to type and thus business users got addicted. They sat on their haunches and barely even updated what they had believing that they were the market trendsetters. RIM is no different than Palm or even as we are seeing HTC.

IOS is the gem that apple created and they wrapped in multiple different shells which combine both form and function better than anything out there. End of story.

 
Addinator37:
Einhorn said it best, that Apple isn't a hardware company its a software company. RIM is a hardware company.
This.

What a vast majority of the people don't understand is that Apple while they love turning a huge profit, do not have a top priority to create revolutionary hardware (or at least in the past they haven't). Going back all the way to the very first computer Apple ever built, they had to make their own computer because of the GUI that they were trying to implement to make the user's experience more enjoyable and easier. Instead of staring at a terminal screen all day, they wanted the user to see pictures and experience something "revolutionary". That's what their computers have always done, sat in the back seat and let their OS take the driver's wheel, because that's what they were trying to sell to customers. Microsoft had the same image it always had and Apple wanted to give the world something different, so they did, but it required them making a new machine.

Enter the iPod, a simple, easy way to allow customers to listen to their music anywhere they wanted to go without the hassle of cassettes or CDs. And importantly, utilize their own iTunes to give access to any music you wanted. To anyone who also had the first iPod, the hardware on that was atrocious...big, clunky, incredibly susceptible to getting dirty, but the software is what they were selling not the machine.

Same with the iPhone, they had a vision for a simplistic smartphone that could use apps that they marketed through their app store. The phone capabilities were not that great, (reception issues) but they still took over because of the app store which now everybody is replicating.

Apple is a software company, not a hardware company. Sure iOS 6 isn't as amazing as iOS 5, but it still is pretty impressive. Siri is enough of a revolution for two decades probably, the complexity in that design is awe-inspiring.

So do I think Apple is anything like RIM...not at all. Will Apple fall? Possibly, but they revolutionized. RIM did not.

 

You guys need to do a little work in digging through Apple's patent filings to understand where the company is going. They're setting up to attempt to revolutionize yet another industry, and it's pretty obvious if you take a look at what they've been doing fo the past 2 or 3 years.

 
thunderfan118:
You guys need to do a little work in digging through Apple's patent filings to understand where the company is going. They're setting up to attempt to revolutionize yet another industry, and it's pretty obvious if you take a look at what they've been doing fo the past 2 or 3 years.

If they can buy Loewe and use their thin film technology to make the iTV see-through that'll be huge for them. Even though I tend to shy away from Apple products, it would be hard to say no to a see-through TV.

Personal wealth is not how much you have in the bank or the worth of your portfolio. But, rather how you've used the wealth to make your life and those around you better.
 

I've said it before, but Apple has succeeded just because their competition has been so bad. MSFT, RIM, Nokia, Palm? 1 of those companies no longer exists, another is almost dead, and the other two have come together to create a phone that has received a lukewarm reception.

Android is the obvious exception, but Google has outsourced its growth. Third parties are responsible for the hardware, not to mention bastardizing it with their UI changes and proprietary apps.

As Nabooru said, Apple also appeals to the technologically illiterate because it is so easy. I have seriously seen 3-5 year olds operating iPod touches. If there is a problem, you just mail it back for repair. And it looks pretty.

 

It does take time to innovate, but how long before it is too late? Did anyone here really believe RIM would be where it is today when it owned the market? With Android growing rapidly (and at pretty comparable quality as of late) and windows looking at building a similar ecosystem as Apple (windows phone and windows 8 coming later this year possibly on ultrabooks), how long does apple have before they need to make big changes? They are working hard on something with patent purchases and are raising a ton of capital, but as we have often seen, a bazooka doesn’t work unless you actually use it. From a valuation perspective we love to see these things, but the consumer only cares about what’s in their hand.

 

Apple is failing and everybody knows it. That's why their valuation is so ridiculously low. When rhe iPhone was first released it was lightyears ahead of the competition. Since then all they have done has been incremental and now their products are obviously inferior to the best Android devices. I am typing this on an iPad (which I love), but my next phone will no longer be an iPhone. Everytime I am standing next to someone with a Galaxy SIII or similar I am deeply embarassed, because the iPhone is such a small-screen piece of fat, heavy old shit. And I'm paying a premium for that. Apple's incremental strategy is still working, but only because they still have some kind of a premium image. But given that they re playing catch-up in the smartphone market, the image won't last forever. Apple no longer has a strategy. Thay are doing things Steve Jobs would never have done (like the divident). Now they could maybe still come up with some kind of a new revolutionary device. But I wouldn't bet on it. Buy GOOG instead, which has a much more consistent track record of unanticipated winning innovations, such as Chrome/Android

 

because the iPhone screen is way too small and the device weights way too much. The iPhone 4s is two years old, since all they changed is putting Siri on (which noone uses!) and noone needed a faster processor in the first place. It takes me forever to find an app on the amateurish screen too. Honestly I am really embarrassed that I have this iPhone, because people might think that I paid a premium for an inferior device just to fit in.

 
Il Cavaliere:
because the iPhone screen is way too small and the device weights way too much. The iPhone 4s is two years old, since all they changed is putting Siri on (which noone uses!) and noone needed a faster processor in the first place. It takes me forever to find an app on the amateurish screen too. Honestly I am really embarrassed that I have this iPhone, because people might think that I paid a premium for an inferior device just to fit in.
I will agree with you that Siri was a pretty lackluster update, as all of their "s" upgrades have been more than disappointing. But Siri is revolutionary, it may not be put to it's full potential as of now but it has serious potential.

Two years ago nobody was saying that the iPhone 4 was too small or too heavy, so when the iPhone 5 comes out rumored this fall I can almost guarantee it will be bigger and lighter (also consider Moore's law here, it will almost certainly be lighter). To a company that has other products that make up a majority of its revenue, and the fact that there's a cult-like following means they don't have to immediately address the complaints of a few. Your whole faster processor argument is flawed, people always want faster speeds otherwise we'd stop innovating and designing new computer chips.

If you think the screen is "amateurish" that's just your own taste. Every designer I know thinks the exact opposite. Android was and still is the best phone from a hard-coded design angle, the transparent design allows anybody to innovate with it and that's why a majority of CS or technical people prefer Android. Apple is what it's always been, flawless incorporation of all of it's elements which appeals to the general public.

For the record, I own a Android phone.

 
SirBarney:
Il Cavaliere:
because the iPhone screen is way too small and the device weights way too much. The iPhone 4s is two years old, since all they changed is putting Siri on (which noone uses!) and noone needed a faster processor in the first place. It takes me forever to find an app on the amateurish screen too. Honestly I am really embarrassed that I have this iPhone, because people might think that I paid a premium for an inferior device just to fit in.
I will agree with you that Siri was a pretty lackluster update, as all of their "s" upgrades have been more than disappointing. But Siri is revolutionary, it may not be put to it's full potential as of now but it has serious potential.

Two years ago nobody was saying that the iPhone 4 was too small or too heavy, so when the iPhone 5 comes out rumored this fall I can almost guarantee it will be bigger and lighter (also consider Moore's law here, it will almost certainly be lighter). To a company that has other products that make up a majority of its revenue, and the fact that there's a cult-like following means they don't have to immediately address the complaints of a few. Your whole faster processor argument is flawed, people always want faster speeds otherwise we'd stop innovating and designing new computer chips.

If you think the screen is "amateurish" that's just your own taste. Every designer I know thinks the exact opposite. Android was and still is the best phone from a hard-coded design angle, the transparent design allows anybody to innovate with it and that's why a majority of CS or technical people prefer Android. Apple is what it's always been, flawless incorporation of all of it's elements which appeals to the general public.

For the record, I own a Android phone.

Yea, iPhone 5... these are the same arguments that I heard one year ago. Good luck with the iPhone 4ss or the "new iPhone". Maybe it will beat the Galaxy SII, but the SII is still way ahead. And screen size does matter ;) It's the single most important thing concerning internet experience.

 

I wouldn't really say iphones are inferior because of their small screen and weight. I thought techies like droids because they have more capability and are customizable unlike the iPhone which is simplistic? (i dont really know, don't follow the smartphone world too closely)

Disclosure: BlackBerry owner (i dont see why everyone hates on them, I use it for email occasionally and use my iPad for everything else. I like it as a phone/email device --- sucks for internet)

Array
 

With the increase in performance and styling of ultrabooks, does this play as a strong deterrent for consumers to plunge into the world of Apple integration? Or will it take a similar ecosystem from companies such as Microsoft and Google where compatibility is seamless such as Apple's. Android already works pretty well with Windows, but it certainly still lacking Apple's integration with poducts such as iCloud (which I really do love).

 

First and foremost, apple has NEVER innovated anything.

There were mp3 players before the ipod, touchscreen phones before the iphone, and tablets before the ipad.

What apple does great is market and create software ecosystems that just work well. Its marketing allows it to charge sheep large amounts for outdated technology. The products feel luxurious and people flock in droves.

Apple is makibg the same mistake decades later. Droid dominates the market and its only getting better. In 5-10 years, apple products will be nothing but a niche market again.

 
IvyLeagueVet:
First and foremost, apple has NEVER innovated anything.

There were mp3 players before the ipod, touchscreen phones before the iphone, and tablets before the ipad.

What apple does great is market and create software ecosystems that just work well. Its marketing allows it to charge sheep large amounts for outdated technology. The products feel luxurious and people flock in droves.

Apple is makibg the same mistake decades later. Droid dominates the market and its only getting better. In 5-10 years, apple products will be nothing but a niche market again.

Could not agree more. Some of the parallels between the current mobile phone race between apple and android and the home/business computing battle of the 80s/90s between apple and microsoft are really startling. History repeats itself.

 
IvyLeagueVet:
First and foremost, apple has NEVER innovated anything.

There were mp3 players before the ipod, touchscreen phones before the iphone, and tablets before the ipad.

What apple does great is market and create software ecosystems that just work well. Its marketing allows it to charge sheep large amounts for outdated technology. The products feel luxurious and people flock in droves.

Apple is makibg the same mistake decades later. Droid dominates the market and its only getting better. In 5-10 years, apple products will be nothing but a niche market again.

If you're saying Apple never innovated anything then what's stopping me from saying that Edison or Bell never innovated anything...Electric lights existed before Edison invented the light bulb and telephonic devices existed before Bell invented his telephone...

They DID innovate, did they INVENT new technologies? No. But that doesn't stop them from innovating, the definition of innovate even says so:

Innovate: Make changes in something established, esp. by introducing new methods, ideas, or products.

 

Youre arguing semantics. You know what I meant and if you continue to argue, youre a goober with an overpriced Macbook, a tiny screen iphone for your small hands, and you have a rooted iPad to get access to the basic file system and download web files.

Apples hardware is inferior by months, sometimes years. Its products are made for morons and sheep cuz they are so easy to use and they look and feel pretty.

Why does Apple avoid biz/power users? They need more functionality and Apple cant compete in that realm.

Come back to me when your iphone can work on LTE networks, give voice directions, and siri can answer correctly more than 50% of your commands.

My Droid does and its 1.5 years old.

 
IvyLeagueVet:
Youre arguing semantics. You know what I meant and if you continue to argue, youre a goober with an overpriced Macbook, a tiny screen iphone for your small hands, and you have a rooted iPad to get access to the basic file system and download web files.

Apples hardware is inferior by months, sometimes years. Its products are made for morons and sheep cuz they are so easy to use and they look and feel pretty.

Why does Apple avoid biz/power users? They need more functionality and Apple cant compete in that realm.

Come back to me when your iphone can work on LTE networks, give voice directions, and siri can answer correctly more than 50% of your commands.

My Droid does and its 1.5 years old.

This guy knows what he's talking about. The hardware on Apple devices is absolutely atrocious.
 

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