all help is appreciated
so i'm in an interesting situation
i got an offer to join first ny's assistant trader program---for full time
but also to summer at baml in their S+T program---
i am able to graduate in may---but for the summer position would graduate in december
though fny seems great---am a bit worried about the idea of prop trading there once the program expires---they say how if u cant generate a strong p+l then you're out
whereas baml would also give me exposure to sales (interested in this---
along with the resources of a bigger firm--meeting people---etc...
only thing is if i were to turn down fny and then not get an offer from baml---
would be a bad situation
does anyone know what percentage of sa's baml takes in S+T
also have a superday with ms coming up
Thanks
In all honesty I would take the BAML internship. It depends entirely however on your appetite for career risk and only you can really make the decision. I cannot comment on the BAML retention rates but generally retention is 80 - 95 percent at these places.
Prop trading obviously offers more upside than working as a broker/dealer, but it's a lot riskier for an already risky career track.
How confident are you in your own abilities as a trader? If you have any reservations about your ability to generate P&L, I'd steer you towards broker/dealership first, let you build up your confidence at BAML, and then once you're sure you can cut it as a prop trader, pursue that either at BAML or at another firm.
At 22, I wasn't cut out for the trading floor let alone prop trading- I was barely cut out for research/analytics. And the signals you're sending seem to be that you've got a lot of doubts and insecurities.
Bear in mind that as a first-year analyst or summer intern at BAML, they will probably take you all up to the executive floor where the CEO will give a speech about how amazing the analyst class is. They'll hand out a resume book showing the average SAT score in the room is 1580, the lady sitting across from you started his own hedge fund, and the guy sitting next to you was a starter on Duke's basketball team. They won't necessarily be smarter or more accomplished than you, but even BAML will be pretty darned intimidating for most 22 year-olds.
If you can make it as a prop trader, you can probably make it as a dealer. And if you can make it as a dealer, you can take a shot at prop trading. But it's an even more stressful career than traditional client flow trading (broker/dealerage).
As someone who pays the bills and a rent check and enjoys having his head above water, there's something to be said about a full time offer. If it were me, I would take the sure thing (ironically with the more variable life). If you fuck it up, you'll at least get great training and have a 18 month job on your resume. If you summer at BAML and don't impress, spill coffee on an MD or get stuck in a bad year for the firm, you're back to square one.
Yes, there is more personal insecurity at FNYS. I can personally vouch for the quality of the overall firm, but if you can't perform, you're done. However, at BAML you have a whole slew of systematic risks. If you have a good pnl, it may not matter since the repo guys could sink your whole bank if they got retarded. Seriously consider that. BoA has had terrible senior leadership for a long time and ML is generally seen as a miserable place (at least from the buyside).
Now, if you really want to go into sales, that's different and you should consider the BAML offer. Of course, you can always try FT at a BB after FNYS teaches you how to trade. I'm not sure how that works though. My cousin is an MD in fixed income sales at a Canadian bank and says that it's a great way to retire from trading, since it's easier and if you know the product well, you can really impress clients.
Now, if you really want to go into sales, that's different and you should consider the BAML offer. Of course, you can always try FT at a BB after FNYS teaches you how to trade. I'm not sure how that works though. My cousin is an MD in fixed income sales at a Canadian bank and says that it's a great way to retire from trading, since it's easier and if you know the product well, you can really impress clients.
just another question---say i sit in the fny training program---get all the licenses---learn products really well by the way----i would sit on the macro rates and fx desk there----which from what i've heard has some really good people--would a bank consider me strongly for a lateral move over ----say in sales---or in market making i know that one young guy on the desk came from merrill---and another from jpm emerging markets----
id say go into BAML --and this is coming from someone who is a prop trader. if you arent excited about it and gung ho about you going to be able to do it and be successful you may very well turn into someone who puts their tale between their legs and not be able to pull the trigger and succeed in trading. ive seen plenty of guys who are very intelligent but they just dont have the right personality for prop trading -- if you think that you arent 'that guy' for prop trading with the risk then it is most likely not for you. take it from me, there are definitely huge ups and downs in morale and PnL as a prop trader :> if you have the interest in the sales as youve indicated that may be a good place to strike out in.
good luck either way.
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