Positioning oneself for Global Macro via BB - foolish?
Hey all, posting on behalf of a friend, but am also interested.
Yes this is another grad looking at BB > HF/PE thread, but it's with the best intentions (ie. experience gained through genuine interest in the role, not just money to be made).
How foolish is it to enter finance (FICC S&T, economics research, whatever) with the intention of moving to a Global Macro Hedge Fund a few years down the line?
It's not that my friend doesn't want to do S&T (on the contrary) but he thinks in 5/10 years time he'd rather be in a hedge fund, but that the few years experience would be i) insightful and ii) enjoyable.
There's a lot of chatter on here that S&T 'leads nowhere' and 'pidgeon holes you'. I've seen comments that if you don't like S&T you're screwed because you have no transferable skills.
On the other hand I've also seen threads saying that the best way to get into Global Macro funds is via S&T at a BB. How do these two viewpoints tie up?
Is it simply that Global Macro funds are so small in number that it's so unlikely you will get into one, even coming from the above background?
All advice helpful, cheers guys
I'm no expert, but from what
I'm no expert, but from what I've heard, your exit ops from S&T really depend on the type of S&T. Sure, if you graduate with a history BA and become an equities salestrader, you'll be pretty limited (this type of position is all but dying out with the rise of electronic trading). But if you manage to finish a financial math masters program at a top ivy and then join a prop desk at a top BB (ex: MBS Arbitrage), I'm pretty sure you'll have desirable skills. After a few years at a BB, you could probably jump to a really good prop shop or quant-oriented hedge fund. The bottom line, in my opinion, is that your opportunities in S&T really depend on the product and type of desk.
S&T pigeonhole you in the way
S&T pigeonhole you in the way that with that kind of experience you won't make it as a C level in a company because you have no transferable skill. But you will be very well positioned to enter a Global Macro fund by doing S&T (in fact mostly T plus economic related research, sales is not somewhere you want to be if you want to trade macro products).
OP you are so out of touch
OP you are so out of touch it's ridiculous. Your "friend" should spend a little less time worrying about having an "insightful and enjoyable" experience and start busting his ass so he has a shot at getting any financial markets related job at all.
And far as I can tell, most people working at hedge funds are most definitely in it for the money.
TheSquale: S&T pigeonhole you
S&T pigeonhole you in the way that with that kind of experience you won't make it as a C level in a company because you have no transferable skill. But you will be very well positioned to enter a Global Macro fund by doing S&T (in fact mostly T plus economic related research, sales is not somewhere you want to be if you want to trade macro products).
Kind of like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Blankfein
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GoodBread: TheSquale: S&T
S&T pigeonhole you in the way that with that kind of experience you won't make it as a C level in a company because you have no transferable skill. But you will be very well positioned to enter a Global Macro fund by doing S&T (in fact mostly T plus economic related research, sales is not somewhere you want to be if you want to trade macro products).
Kind of like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Blankfein
This is different. He started on the floor (as did Mack) and eventually reach the C level but in a bank. There is no way you become C level executive on another big company if you started on the trading floor without doing a MBA for example.
Moreover he made it to CEO during boom years. I wouldn't expect a bank CEO to be chosen from the S&T folks any time soon. FIG bankers would be where you want to work if you want to reach a top position in a bank.
TheSquale: GoodBread: The
S&T pigeonhole you in the way that with that kind of experience you won't make it as a C level in a company because you have no transferable skill. But you will be very well positioned to enter a Global Macro fund by doing S&T (in fact mostly T plus economic related research, sales is not somewhere you want to be if you want to trade macro products).
Kind of like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Blankfein
This is different. He started on the floor (as did Mack) and eventually reach the C level but in a bank. There is no way you become C level executive on another big company if you started on the trading floor without doing a MBA for example.
Moreover he made it to CEO during boom years. I wouldn't expect a bank CEO to be chosen from the S&T folks any time soon. FIG bankers would be where you want to work if you want to reach a top position in a bank.
What? There is no way you can be an executive in a bank without an MBA if you started on the trading floor? Not true at all, many former traders and salesman have run banks and big departments at banks. Along with Mack, Sandy Weill, Ace Greenberg, Lloyd Blankfein, and many others started in sales or trading. I find it very hard to believe that nobody in the future will ever run a bank with this type of background.
Bondarb: TheSquale: GoodB
S&T pigeonhole you in the way that with that kind of experience you won't make it as a C level in a company because you have no transferable skill. But you will be very well positioned to enter a Global Macro fund by doing S&T (in fact mostly T plus economic related research, sales is not somewhere you want to be if you want to trade macro products).
Kind of like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Blankfein
This is different. He started on the floor (as did Mack) and eventually reach the C level but in a bank. There is no way you become C level executive on another big company if you started on the trading floor without doing a MBA for example.
Moreover he made it to CEO during boom years. I wouldn't expect a bank CEO to be chosen from the S&T folks any time soon. FIG bankers would be where you want to work if you want to reach a top position in a bank.
What? There is no way you can be an executive in a bank without an MBA if you started on the trading floor? Not true at all, many former traders and salesman have run banks and big departments at banks. Along with Mack, Sandy Weill, Ace Greenberg, Lloyd Blankfein, and many others started in sales or trading. I find it very hard to believe that nobody in the future will ever run a bank with this type of background.
Agree with you 100%. It will happen again. Funny thing now is that it seems that you are much more likely to find them from the commercial banking side than anywhere else given that every bank really is a bank now (GS and MS in name only, but every other one is a bank first and an IB second).
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Regardless, I doubt OP will
Regardless, I doubt OP will be up for consideration as CEO of a major bank 'any time soon' even if he does something with 'more transferrable skills' than S&T.
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Bondarb: TheSquale: GoodB
S&T pigeonhole you in the way that with that kind of experience you won't make it as a C level in a company because you have no transferable skill. But you will be very well positioned to enter a Global Macro fund by doing S&T (in fact mostly T plus economic related research, sales is not somewhere you want to be if you want to trade macro products).
Kind of like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Blankfein
This is different. He started on the floor (as did Mack) and eventually reach the C level but in a bank. There is no way you become C level executive on another big company if you started on the trading floor without doing a MBA for example.
Moreover he made it to CEO during boom years. I wouldn't expect a bank CEO to be chosen from the S&T folks any time soon. FIG bankers would be where you want to work if you want to reach a top position in a bank.
What? There is no way you can be an executive in a bank without an MBA if you started on the trading floor? Not true at all, many former traders and salesman have run banks and big departments at banks. Along with Mack, Sandy Weill, Ace Greenberg, Lloyd Blankfein, and many others started in sales or trading. I find it very hard to believe that nobody in the future will ever run a bank with this type of background.
Agreed. Hell, one can start as a janitor's assistant, then transfer to trading and synapse into the CEO role at Goldman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Weinberg
Ashok Varadhan could very well be Goldman's next CEO and he started off in FICC.
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Bondarb: TheSquale: GoodB
S&T pigeonhole you in the way that with that kind of experience you won't make it as a C level in a company because you have no transferable skill. But you will be very well positioned to enter a Global Macro fund by doing S&T (in fact mostly T plus economic related research, sales is not somewhere you want to be if you want to trade macro products).
Kind of like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Blankfein
This is different. He started on the floor (as did Mack) and eventually reach the C level but in a bank. There is no way you become C level executive on another big company if you started on the trading floor without doing a MBA for example.
Moreover he made it to CEO during boom years. I wouldn't expect a bank CEO to be chosen from the S&T folks any time soon. FIG bankers would be where you want to work if you want to reach a top position in a bank.
What? There is no way you can be an executive in a bank without an MBA if you started on the trading floor? Not true at all, many former traders and salesman have run banks and big departments at banks. Along with Mack, Sandy Weill, Ace Greenberg, Lloyd Blankfein, and many others started in sales or trading. I find it very hard to believe that nobody in the future will ever run a bank with this type of background.
We misunderstod each other. I didn't say that it was impossible to become an executive in bank without an MBA but that it was impossible to be an executive in any other non financial company (say Exxon, Apple, P&G whatever). Sorry for the confusion.
For the future I still think that FIG bankers will now be the one in the better position when it come to chose who will run the bank. That don't mean that we won't see any other S&T become CEO, but statistically it would be your best bet.
But as GoodBread said I don't think that it was the reply that OP was looking for.