to what degree are we as Americans willing to reduce our national debt?
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,784
Points)
on 7/6/11 at 6:42am
I was having a political/economic/debt discussion w/ my disgruntled & slightly pessimistic uncle yesterday. He asked some good questions to which I couldn't fully answer, and I told him i'd post his q's on our forum for some addt'l feedback from the fellow monkeys out there.
#1: to what degree are we as Americans willing to reduce our national debt through austerity measures?, ie less entitlements, or is it too late - will we (personally & as a country) collapse from all of us having to much personal and national debt?
#2 Are we willing to give up our entitlement to pay higher taxes? i.e. We want all these benefits but are we willing to pay higher taxes for them - & how can we afford a higher level of benefits?
We're not in that bad shape
We're not in that bad shape imo. Look at Japan, almost 2.5x our government debt to GDP and nobody talks about default. In fact, they're the most indebted nation according to this metric, but unlike other countries, most of their debt is yen denominated so they can inflate away their debt if they want to. Same with the US.
Of course there are other factors, but I don't see it as an imminent problem.
HarvardOrBust wrote: We're
We're not in that bad shape imo. Look at Japan, almost 2.5x our government debt to GDP and nobody talks about default. In fact, they're the most indebted nation according to this metric, but unlike other countries, most of their debt is yen denominated so they can inflate away their debt if they want to. Same with the US.
Of course there are other factors, but I don't see it as an imminent problem.
are you kidding me? ....... "so they can inflate their debt away if they want to" That situation is a LAST resort ditch effort at any type of solvency. This situation is nothing short of a stagflationary depression.
not an imminent problem? what planet have you been living on, take a step outside of the bubble you live in....
HarvardOrBust wrote: We're
We're not in that bad shape imo. Look at Japan, almost 2.5x our government debt to GDP and nobody talks about default. In fact, they're the most indebted nation according to this metric, but unlike other countries, most of their debt is yen denominated so they can inflate away their debt if they want to. Same with the US.
Of course there are other factors, but I don't see it as an imminent problem.
Inflate away. Same with the US. Of course there are other factors, but I don't see it as an imminent problem.
You´re funny
Do you know in what exactly inflation results ?
http://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/
http://www.tradersmagazine.com/
Harvard - you're nuts. OP- I
Harvard - you're nuts.
OP-
I would love to reduce the debt through less entitlement programs. However, I don't believe that it is very likely to happen. I'm trying to avoid politics here, but giving people something for nothing keeps getting people elected.
I would not want to pay higher taxes for more benefits because I don't want benefits from the government. In my opinion, I can spend my money better than the government can. Keep my hard earned money in my wallet and I'll purchase the "benefits" I need.
I actually would be willing to pay more in taxes to reduce the debt IF (and HUGE IF) I believed that the government wasn't a huge waste. If entitlements and spending were in order I wouldn't object to something like a 2% increase for all Americans for 7 years that goes straight towards paying off the debt. The problem is now that there is zero fiscal responsibility and any additional money we paid in to the system would currently just be wasted on another ridiculous entitlement.
When i was in grade school i
When i was in grade school i always wondered why we didn't just print more money to pay off the people we owed.
One of the big problems i see with inflating the debt away, besides the usual negatives of inflation, is that it wouldn't actually fix most of the debt issues.
Medicare and Medicaid are badly broken and printing more money doesn't fix that at all it just means we now pay the hospitals with dollars that are worthless.
The other big dog in the debt problem is Social Security which is indexed to inflation. So hyperinflation just means more worthless bills going to my grandma so she can buy pills with Medicare. Doesn't solve the problem at all
Two major issues most people
Two major issues most people ignore when debating this question:
1) What is an American exactly? There is a lot less clear cut, old school American patriotism these days. Americans have seemingly adopted globalization and internationalism so much faster than anyone else it is having some very adverse effects in terms of how we approach subjects which may be harmful to our own statehood.
2) Debt is inexorably tied not to the ability to pay it back, but to the benefit of the creditors in actually attempting to collect. Anyone in today's world who went about a rigorous collection campaign to collect on America's debts (foreign/domestic, corporate/federal) would pretty quickly find that they were cutting off their nose to spite their face.
I rail about the debt as much as anyone, but in reality nobody is coming to collect. The Fed wouldn't be printing away if they didn't know this and cold, hard and ugly as the truth may be...the dollar is backed by the near omnipotent power of the Armed Forces. Everything else is just us chickens cackling about what the farmer is up to.
Where I unload on Twits and take verbal S***s
Midas Mulligan Magoo
Two major issues most people ignore when debating this question:
1) What is an American exactly? There is a lot less clear cut, old school American patriotism these days. Americans have seemingly adopted globalization and internationalism so much faster than anyone else it is having some very adverse effects in terms of how we approach subjects which may be harmful to our own statehood.
2) Debt is inexorably tied not to the ability to pay it back, but to the benefit of the creditors in actually attempting to collect. Anyone in today's world who went about a rigorous collection campaign to collect on America's debts (foreign/domestic, corporate/federal) would pretty quickly find that they were cutting off their nose to spite their face.
I rail about the debt as much as anyone, but in reality nobody is coming to collect. The Fed wouldn't be printing away if they didn't know this and cold, hard and ugly as the truth may be...the dollar is backed by the near omnipotent power of the Armed Forces. Everything else is just us chickens cackling about what the farmer is up to.
world currency in peace time-> Money
world-currency in war-> Weapons and Ammunition
http://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/
http://www.tradersmagazine.com/
RexAlpha wrote: Midas
the dollar is backed by the near omnipotent power of the Armed Forces.
world currency in peace time-> Money
world-currency in war-> Weapons and Ammunition
Agree. The world stands more to gain by participating in the system the US has created than by attacking it or trying to withdraw, either economically or militarily. The only better move for most countries is to invest in their own developement when they can.
Example: We buy oil from Saudi Arabia. They use this money to invest in our stock market. We win, they win. They only better move for them is to reinvest the money in their own civilization.
YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...
Midas Mulligan Magoo
...Everything else is just us chickens cackling about what the farmer is up to.
That reminds me of the quote, "The lion doesn’t concern himself with the opinions of the sheep". LOL.
Regards
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan
UFOinsider wrote: Example: We
Example: We buy oil from Saudi Arabia. They use this money to invest in our stock market. We win, they win. They only better move for them is to reinvest the money in their own civilization.
Bi-winning
http://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/
http://www.tradersmagazine.com/
Entitlements are out of
Entitlements are out of control, government spending is insane, politicians are fucking retarded and the people who receive entitlements keep getting liberals elected. My hopes are very slim.
"It's never too early to
"It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they
have sore, chapped nipples."
-- Ron Swanson
Pay more in taxes.... One of
Pay more in taxes....
One of those phrases that doesn't mean much without careful definition.
The government cannot set tax REVENUES. The government only controls tax RATES.
Only class warfare can justify higher tax RATES as an attempt to increase tax REVENUES. We know high tax rates will shift behavior from productive uses (investment, consumption) to tax avoidance. Companies will relocate, individuals will buy muni-bonds, factories will be built elsewhere.
Do we want to beat the debt with a larger slice of an ever shrinking pie? Or do we want to beat the debt on the way to prosperity by taking a smaller slice of an ever GROWING pie?
Make the US the most tax-friendly developed nation on earth. Strengthen the dollar. Cut bureaucratic regulations. Slash entitlement spending.
*********************************
“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
FreeWeezy wrote: "It's never
"It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they
have sore, chapped nipples."
-- Ron Swanson
Amazing quote
http://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/
http://www.tradersmagazine.com/
1. SS - raise age, start
1. SS - raise age, start needs based testing, slowly phase out (i.e., anyone under 25 never receives any benefits)
2. reduce military - do we really need bases all over Europe?
3. Other
I personally don't expect shit from our gov't so start reducing now. Too bad so many dead beats suck off the govt's teet.
Midas Mulligan Magoo
acctFlingin wrote: Couldn't
http://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/
http://www.tradersmagazine.com/
RexAlpha wrote: acctFlingin
YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...
Simply cut the size of
MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter
ANT wrote: Simply cut the
We have been too focused with
MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter
jsmort11 wrote: ANT
jsmort11 wrote: ANT
*********************************
“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
Make politicians work for
go4it wrote: Make politicians
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
Eokpar02's guide to cutting
I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P
Hmmm, I like EOK's plan.
MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter
OOOooooooooh. Tax cuts. I
MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter
eokpar02 wrote: Eokpar02's
t4s wrote: eokpar02
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
America needs a strong
*********************************
“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
veritas14 wrote: America
YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...
600 bil is peanuts compared
I know the US has a huge debt
There's no revenue problem,
yankeez, majority of US debt
yankeez, a lot of people
Thanks for the feedback!