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Okay, this is definitely frowned upon, and most probably illegal but just out of curiosity.....has anyone ever used their expenses card as their daily card without the intention of claiming it back, leading to the cost being deducted from your paycheck (ie, pre tax) and thus reducing your tax outlay (or at least having a tax rebate down the line)?

For your edification, I have no intentions of doing so, just curious.

Comments (18)

  • brandon st randy's picture

    I think this is a lot more feasible if you are classified as an independent contractor working with the firm as opposed to an employee on the payroll.

    Too late for second-guessing Too late to go back to sleep.

  • Royal Capital's picture

    Simply an awesome concept.

    “The pleasure of rooting for Goliath is that you can expect to win. The pleasure of rooting for David is that, while you don’t know what to expect, you stand at least a chance of being inspired.” - Michael Lewis

  • wasvsdal's picture

    If you work for a firm and get caught, it would mean you'd get fired. If you claim it on your Schedule C, and get audited then you'd be in a hole after you get penalized up your ass. But yes, that is one of many ways to commit an illegal crime. It doesn't take a genius to commit a crime - just a lot of guts and a lack of ambitions.

  • In reply to wasvsdal
    Oreos's picture

    wasvsdal wrote:
    If you work for a firm and get caught, it would mean you'd get fired. If you claim it on your Schedule C, and get audited then you'd be in a hole after you get penalized up your ass. But yes, that is one of many ways to commit an illegal crime. It doesn't take a genius to commit a crime - just a lot of guts and a lack of ambitions.

    I'm British so have no idea what a Sched. C is but just humour me, why would your firm care? It's a pass through for them; admittedly it doesn't look great on their part. The tax loss is to the public purse. So, rightly, HMRC or IRS, would be pissed, and would, when/if they cottoned on, want "their" money. And I suppose, if convicted of a "crime," your firm would have grounds for dismissal.

    .

  • TNA's picture

    In the USA you could swing it, but you'd need to be an independent contractor (as mentioned above) or have a consulting business where you essentially were the business. That way you could basically expense your day to day living, within reason.

  • In reply to Oreos
    wasvsdal's picture

    Oreos wrote:
    wasvsdal wrote:
    If you work for a firm and get caught, it would mean you'd get fired. If you claim it on your Schedule C, and get audited then you'd be in a hole after you get penalized up your ass. But yes, that is one of many ways to commit an illegal crime. It doesn't take a genius to commit a crime - just a lot of guts and a lack of ambitions.

    I'm British so have no idea what a Sched. C is but just humour me, why would your firm care? It's a pass through for them; admittedly it doesn't look great on their part. The tax loss is to the public purse. So, rightly, HMRC or IRS, would be pissed, and would, when/if they cottoned on, want "their" money. And I suppose, if convicted of a "crime," your firm would have grounds for dismissal.

    It would only get deducted from your paycheck if you expensed it through the firm, in which case the firm is paying for it.

  • TNA's picture

    Yeah Oreo, if you are in the system you are going to get robbed (aka taxed). You need a side business or something where you can control the expenses and income stream.

  • In reply to wasvsdal
    Oreos's picture

    wasvsdal wrote:
    Oreos wrote:
    wasvsdal wrote:
    If you work for a firm and get caught, it would mean you'd get fired. If you claim it on your Schedule C, and get audited then you'd be in a hole after you get penalized up your ass. But yes, that is one of many ways to commit an illegal crime. It doesn't take a genius to commit a crime - just a lot of guts and a lack of ambitions.

    I'm British so have no idea what a Sched. C is but just humour me, why would your firm care? It's a pass through for them; admittedly it doesn't look great on their part. The tax loss is to the public purse. So, rightly, HMRC or IRS, would be pissed, and would, when/if they cottoned on, want "their" money. And I suppose, if convicted of a "crime," your firm would have grounds for dismissal.

    It would only get deducted from your paycheck if you expensed it through the firm, in which case the firm is paying for it.


    I don't know how expenses work at your place but this is how it works here: I buy X on my Amex, if i do not claim the receipt of X back at the end of the month it comes out of my paycheck. If i do claim it, it doesn't. As i said, a pass through.

    .

  • Viktri's picture

    There wouldn't be an impact on your taxes because your income is not necessarily the same as your take home pay.

    Example:
    Expense of 10
    Taxed at 100 income
    Your paycheck was 90
    You are taxed at 100, not the 90

    - V

  • In reply to Viktri
    Oreos's picture

    Viktri wrote:
    There wouldn't be an impact on your taxes because your income is not necessarily the same as your take home pay.

    Example:
    Expense of 10
    Taxed at 100 income
    Your paycheck was 90
    You are taxed at 100, not the 90


    Okay. But then why do I have to ring up HMRC to ask for a rebate when my bonus comes and they raise my tax rate? It's not my salary, but still has a bearing on my tax rate.

    God, I'm diving a little deep into this....starting to convince myself to have a go.

    .

  • In reply to TNA
    Edmundo Braverman's picture

    TNA wrote:
    In the USA you could swing it, but you'd need to be an independent contractor (as mentioned above) or have a consulting business where you essentially were the business. That way you could basically expense your day to day living, within reason.

    This is absolutely true, but only to the extent that your accountant isn't a Boy Scout. Unfortunately mine is. I did something similar to what the OP is suggesting when I set up my yacht services company, and my accountant called bullshit on much of it before the IRS even got to see it.

    Moral? If you're going to try it, use a shady accountant or do your own taxes.

  • In reply to Oreos
    Viktri's picture

    Oreos wrote:
    Viktri wrote:
    There wouldn't be an impact on your taxes because your income is not necessarily the same as your take home pay.

    Example:
    Expense of 10
    Taxed at 100 income
    Your paycheck was 90
    You are taxed at 100, not the 90


    Okay. But then why do I have to ring up HMRC to ask for a rebate when my bonus comes and they raise my tax rate? It's not my salary, but still has a bearing on my tax rate.

    God, I'm diving a little deep into this....starting to convince myself to have a go.

    I'm not sure what you are exactly describing but my guess is that you mean that your bonus is overtaxed and you receive a rebate?

    Bonus and salary are active income and taxed aggregately.

    - V

  • In reply to Edmundo Braverman
    Viktri's picture

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    - V

  • BTbanker's picture