Can an MBA Land you a Sell-Side Trading Gig?
After scouring the internet and employment reports for the answer to this question, the only conclusion I've become confident with is: It’s possible. It appears, unfortunately for those of us that missed the bus, that most sell-side trader recruiting on the street takes place at the Undergraduate level, rather than the Graduate level. How then, is the best way to break into the industry if you already hold an undergraduate degree?
By "sell-side trader" I’m referring to any type of flow-based (non-prop) trader at an investment bank. I’ve read through countless forums regarding this topic in addition to each of the top MBA and Masters in Finance programs’ placement reports, and this post is meant to serve as a summary of my findings.
First and foremost, there seems to be much confusion about the topic, even from people on sell-side desks! Some claim the Undergraduate recruiting program, or "knowing people" is the only way to break in. Others insist a solid "P and L" from your personal account is what’s needed. Many suggest the degree of choice is now the Masters of Financial Engineering, or something similar. Yet others are convinced the MBA is still a valid way to go.
Each path seems to have its own disadvantages. Knowing the right people seems to perhaps be a way to get an interview, but one would think a majority of these candidates would be weeded out during the interview process, as they may not be as qualified as others. The "P and L" argument makes sense to me for a prop-trading role, but not necessarily for a flow-trader. The MFE sounds good, but what if you don’t have the math background to be admitted? Many argue that these programs prep one mostly for programming/quant rolls instead of trading anyhow. There’s the Masters in Finance, but aside from the selective programs at MIT or Princeton (which require nearly as much math as a MFE), these programs don’t seem to be targets.
So what about the MBA? From what I’ve gathered, the few top MBA programs in finance have placed between 3% and 6.5% of their 2011 class into Sales & Trading. Of this relatively small proportion, it’s commonly believed that more than half of these roles are actually in Sales, rather than Trading- due to the reputation of the MBA being more of a "soft skills" degree. In other words, the chances aren’t good.
However, these trading roles are in much shorter supply than other popular MBA career destinations such as IB or Consulting- so the chances should be lower. Since most MBA applicants are shooting for other industries, there may be reduced competition for these positions as well.
In conclusion, it seems that although the odds are not high, it appears to be possible to land a career in sell-side trading by getting an MBA. My advice for any aspiring traders, without the technical background for a MFE, would be to select a top 10 program with a quantitative reputation and take an abundance of math-oriented courses.
+1 SB thanks for the info.
trading is going the way of the dodo.
There's only one safe choice. MIT MBA.
been trying to break into a sell side trading role and have been debating an MBA for a little bit. I am torn...
Anecdotal only, but I know a recent grad each from Booth and CBS that are in the type of positions you describe.
S&T gigs for MBAs are getting a lot more difficult. Trading desks are cutting down and are directly promoting analysts to associates or hiring those from other firms. The vast majority of MBAs who do go into S&T end up in sales, with a few in structuring and "pure" trading.
In Canada the recruiting for S&T rotational program predominantly consist of MBA hires.
I think someone posted this awhile back.
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/wsj-article-msc-vs-mba
look, if u r hell bent on trading, why do u want to waste ur time studying modules like marketing and human resource courses in your MBA?
if u tell me MBA gives u more career choices like consultancy and PE. Fine. I agree. But when you talk abt trading, its more math based and financial market experiences.
something of note that much be considered is the self selecting nature of MBAs. It is probably safe to assume that not many MBAs want to do trading and thus it correlates to the low numbers. While still competitive, it might not be as bad as the numbers look at first blush.
...
I actually agree with you Imperialian... It's just that there's only so much math one could study without a prior background in math. Without the background, you wouldn't get into (or understand) the quantitative finance programs. You could get into a masters of finance program, but like I said, these for the most part don't seem to be large targets. At least the top MBA programs actually have these recruiters coming to their campuses, even if the chances of securing a position are small... It also seems a MBA with a highly customisable curriculum could help to circumvent some of the non-finance/math related courses, and allow one to focus more on the more relevant ones. Thenagain, without much of a math background, it's possible one wouldn't be considered for these positions anyway...
MBA school for Sell-Side Trading? (Originally Posted: 04/17/2013)
Thoughts on this? Which MBA schools get targeted heavily by BBs for S&T? How about the big 5 banks in Canada? Is going to a quant. focused grad program (MFin, MMF, MFE, MQF etc) selling myself short? I heard that one should try to push for S&T after undergraduate degree, and only if you don't break in then you should pursue Grad. B-school.
I'm a current BB trader, and my desk has not hired an MBA in like 4 years. The vast majority of S&T jobs that MBAs do get is in sales, not trading, and even that number has diminished significantly in the last several years. Basically you need to get in out of undergrad or from a quant grad program such as mfin/mfe or a Phd. The skillset you learn in an MBA program does not translate well into BB trading. We recently interviewed several MBAs from more quant programs such as sloan, booth, and wharton, and they all bombed. The difference in knowledge and quantitative abilities between a wharton/booth mba and a mfin/mfe from say berkeley, princeton, columbia, nyu, is pretty drastic.
The landscapes a lot different in Canada mbavsmfin
@mbavsmfin: What area of S&T are you in?
I went to Ivey for my MBA so let me chime in about Canada at least. I went to break into s&t specifically. The majority of spots are available in the big5 and are rotational programs. Also, most banks tend to favor undergrads but they're a lot bigger population, so it makes sense. Since Ivey has moved to a one year program, students do not have an opportunity for summer internships. Typically half the full time spots go to interns so this is significant. Also, during tough times, interns tend to work their ass off knowing this might be their only chance, so it becomes even more difficult to break into. Further, you only have four months of class before recruitment, and these are mostly core classes so it's difficult to get technically prepared. However, if you have some sort of capital markets experience already, Ivey is the best Canadian brand name for your resume and you'll likely land full time without too much effort. Everyone who came to Ivey with some sort of capital markets experience got tons of interviews. The class size is a lot smaller than rotman too, and there's less people interested in s&t there in generals so less intra school competition. In short, no markets experience, go to rotman, if you do have some, go to Ivey. I can't speak to the mfin programs etc, but when I was interviewing, there were certainly a few interviewing as well. In case you're wondering, I didn't have capital markets experience and I broke in, but it was really tough. They're taking very few people for s&t these days. 25 across the big five including undergrads is what i hear.
What group are you with?
Ivey MBA is more oriented towards banking/consulting, dont you agree? I will definitely consider Ivey MBA though if I don't break into Big 5 S&T after my undergrad. The 1 year without internship is a huge turnoff though....and that's why Rotman wouldn't be a bad idea. But then, no MBA schools in Canada are 'target' schools. Best bet would be to rape the GPA and get into a top 25 MBA in the states.
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