The Dream That Died

you will have worked in IBD for 2+ years when you're done with your analyst program....you know what you're getting yourself into if you head down the MBA/associate route. go with your gut - as you get higher up, it'll only get harder and harder to quit.

I'm not sure I want to stay in trading - I view my analyst gig primarily as a screening mechanism to show future potential employers that I am hard working and have practical capabilities, not just academic credentials. I'm starting to realize that I aspire to do something more creative/personally gratifying. I find finance very interesting, but gekko's infamous words, "I don't create - I own", pretty much sum it up

if there was/is ever a time to get out of finance, now is it.

You're only 22 and with good credentials, it's not too late to do a 180 with your life...

seriously, why the fuck would you stay in a business you hate...

and btw, htere are no guarantees of anything. you could stay in it, do really well etc etc and the soul-selling will have turned out fine. or, you could make it through this downturn just to get fired in the next one and end up spinning out into a much lower paying "industry" job. this is why going into finance JUST for the money should be avoided if you have a real dream...

Wow Alex,

We all probably need to frame that response and read it every morning.

I really do appreciate the advice, but some of your suggests are unrealistic and vague.

I would like to begin by saying that I was raised in an extremely affluent neighborhood. Private schools, kids with seriously expensive cars, etcetera. So I'd like to think that the reason I want to earn a lot of money is that I want to provide my family with the same, or better, opportunities that were given to me. I don't really think I'm trying to substitute money for anything in my life, but I could be blinded by my own biases.

With respect to the complete 180, I do not want to take the MCAT which will require ~3-6 months of studying (I'm not fresh on Chem/Bio/Physics), suffer through 4 years of med. school, a residency, and specialization. I'll be 30+ by the time I start practicing medicine, and miles deep in debt I would accumulate on the way.

To the "Why the fuck would you stay in a business you hate...", I'm pretty sure I made myself clear. Money. Every decision we make requires a trade off, and everyone puts different weights on their alternatives. I put a pretty heavy weight on money, and that's why I have chose a business that I hate.

I guess the master plan, after I abandoned medicine, was to become a teacher at some point. Although, I always envisioned myself being obscenely wealthy at that juncture. Are there any fields that don't totally suck, that pay well, where having been an analyst at a top Investment Bank would give me a comparative advantage?

Does anyone share in my general dissatisfaction?

If you do something you don't like, you will never make money in that field. Perhaps some of the senior bankers like Genghis Khan can comment on this but one of the reasons they made it to the position they are in is because on some level they don't mind their work and probably like doing it even though its exhausting.

I agree with Curry-Banker. You'll never be successful in something you hate. Especially in a field as competitive as finance. Some of the people reaching for the same brass ring as you have a passion and desire for finance, its what they've always wanted to do, and they love every minute of it. How can you be competitive when you hate it? You'll never make it past VP, if that even.

Even if you're someone truly exceptional who can outperform everyone in a field comprised of extreme over-achievers... #1- you're talent is being underutilized, #2- even if you end up being successful it won't be gratifying.

Just something to put things into perspective... I was recently friend requested by some fuckin loser I went to HS with. I accepted so I could check out his mediocre life and feel good about myself and my badass career.

This fucking guy had pictures up of a brand New House he just brought with a shiny new car in his driveway. It was a pretty nice house. So I wondered what he does, and I check it out and he's a personal finance douche bag in some horse shit city. We make fun of BofA guys in Charlotte and Standard Charter guys in Minneapolis. Those guys make fun of this guy. If BB in NYC is Saks 5th Ave and Barneys, and BofA in Charlotte is Sears, this fuckin guy is Sam's Choice champagne soda at Wal-Mart. Yet he has a house a lot fuckin nicer than the apartment I'm RENTING, he seems to be pretty comfortable and successful. I realized that anyone that was to meet the both of us, would think he makes more money than I do, and is more successful and has a better career. The realization made me so filled with rage, I could barely contain myself. Then I kicked up my Gucci loafers on my desk to channel the blood flow to my energy core, my pelvic region, and stroked my Ferragamo tie until I stopped shaking and could erase the thought for my mind.

jxtxdx time for a reality check-- either you're lying to yourself, or to all of us. You're not chasing money? What are you chasing? Do you find spending Friday and Saturday nights in the office gratifying and fulfilling, because then at least you can convince yourself you have to be there. When really, you have no where else to be, because you're a tool. We will all go to great lengths to resolve cognitive dissonance, at least I'm fucking honest.

And some of you bring up good points, but honestly, do you find finance gratifying? Modeling is enjoyable? Powerpoint is interesting? You're helping the world by doing...what? And, you're totally expendable? You're all regurgitating the same bullshit you've been fed by your parents, guidance counselors, and professors, except you've been brainwashed to actually believe it. Scary.

Why are all of you in finance? I don't get it. If not the money, what is it? Would any of you do it pro-bono?

Sorry if I'm being ridiculous in my posts, but I'm not happy right now. I should get back to work...

I enjoy it. I think its interesting. I find it gratifying to learn about it, and build on top of what I already know. If I was learning marine biology and building on top of what I already learned, I would slit my wrists. Its the profession, the culture of the field, and the content of my job.

I wouldn't do it pro-bono. I like running and lifting weights, its enjoyable. But I wouldn't do it if I never gained any muscle mass and never got any faster or in any better shape.

Truth be told, I enjoy a lot of things, and there are a lot of factors that go into making a decision. So you can't say, you like it, so would you do it for free? Do you think you're making a contribution to humanity? Do you think you're not expendable? What about teachers and doctors, are they not expendable? If I were a teacher, would the fate of our youth be doomed if I left the profession?

4u2bnvs: sounds like you never should have gotten into the field in the first place (out of curiosity, what exactly did you say when they asked you why banking?). I know first years who are 24, you're still young, have plenty of time to make more mistakes and correct those. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. So figure out what you really want to do now (not your first year of college), and go for that. If it means sacrificing a few years, then so be it--at least you won't be miserable/desperate right?

i don't think anybody's arguing that spending hours in the office on Fridays and Saturdays is gratifying...the same way that medical residents wouldn't claim to love the idea of pulling 48 hour shifts...

yeah, there are tradeoffs you make everywhere in life. but reason you're giving up other things shouldn't only be money. like you said, everybody puts weights on things, and you overweight money--but if you'd weighted it right, wouldn't you be thrilled with life right now? sounds like money is actually a lot less important to you than you think.

that being said, i feel sorry for you man. you're so miserable but completely unwilling to do anything about it.

hope life works out for you, and more importantly, that i'm not you in 2 years...

Try here: http://www.teachforamerica.org/ maybe it will put some purpose back into your life...

marcus and jxt but a defense of "I wouldn't do a lot of things without reward and that doesn't make me superficial"... doesn't work as well when your doing arguably the most demanding and highest paid thing out there.

also...

I understand that some bankers absolutely love what they do...

...but I think that you would be mistaken to believe that MANY haven't effectively found what they perceive to be genuine happiness in the money/prestege/ego massaging of it.

The fact that 4u2 is simply reaching a moment where he understands that money isn't all that's important to him isn't anything to ridicule... or rather that he feels that the legitimate psychological pressure of lets say being more successful than his father, has caused him to choose the pursuit of money over his dream.

coming out of finance, there's plenty of opportunity for you. I understand where you are coming from, just as I understand some of the opposing views here. Truth be told, you (just as i figure most of us) have your entire life in front of you. The fact that you started in finance does not mean you should continue and end up in finance. I think there's a point in someone's career, earlier or later, when everyone will feel the way you do right now.. it's always a matter of weighing the pluses against the minuses. From what you're saying, it's obvious that the balance is not in favor of your current job. However, you should have all the opportunities you want to switch careers. And on becoming a doctor, I wouldn't sweat it too much. If you chose banking, it's clear you didn't really want to be a doctor all that much, you you didn't miss out on anything. Look at the bright side... at least you went into finance and discovered you don't like it after 2 years (with plenty of opportunities in front of you) as opposed to going into medicine and figuring out the same thing 7 years down the line. Hope you find something that makes you happy.

Your self important comments are a bit nauseating but I certainly appreciate your candor. You sound like one of those Darien kids I used to beat up in HS but you also seem like a pretty bright kid who needs to come to the realization that success and happiness are the result of being in full command of your talents and using those talents in a way that benefits yourself and others. If you have a passion outside of banking you should absolutely pursue it even at the risk of disappointing your father and being perceived by your friends as less successful than them (in monetary terms). Happiness comes from accepting yourself and not worrying about the opinions of others...or at least that’s what the fortune cookie said at Noodles 28. -Relax and try to enjoy life

passion for finance blablabla

always outperformed my class, never had a passion for any of it...

sure you can will yourself to do an outstanding job in something you hate, even for a long time. takes a certain type of personality, but you can.

and all that crap about doing something meaningful. for everyone I meet in a "meaningful" job that is happy because he/she is making a difference, I meet at least two that are bitter because the job sucks, people are ungrateful, pay is miserable, etc.

finance looks less promising a sector than a few years back, and anyhow there are too many people in here, so getting out may be a smart choice, but don't do it because you are looking for meaning.

With the economic storm that is gonna face us in the coming years, i'm puzzled by how people can still say money is not the most important thing in a job. just shows this generation has been spoiled, and is going to have to relearn the hard way how philosophizing is so much harder on an empty stomach

Dude, seriously, stop feeling sorry for yourself. Gucci and Ferragamo? Are you kidding me? You obviously come from a wealthy background, which means you should pursue your dream, whatever that might be. Personally, I think I will enjoy working in finance, but if I came from your starting position, I would not get into finance because I have a bunch of things that I would like to do much more than work in finance. But unfortunately my first year base salary will be roughly 3 times as much as my parents' yearly income that they have been making their whole life, so I don't have much of a choice other than entering a profession where I can potentially earn a lot of money, at least for a couple of years. But for you, you don't seem to have a lot of finanical worries, you don't seem to have to provide financially for your parents, for your siblings, you don't seem to have any debts to pay off, you have no real constraints...so dude, come on, you are EXTREMLEY lucky and a lot of people would do anything to be in your position. Open your eyes and look the hell around, you have it better than probably 90% of the population. Take the gifts that have been given to you, get out there, and find what makes you happy. A lot of other people don't have that luxury.

I hate my job too. I want to quit, move to the Caribbean, and open a bar like Tom Cruise did in "Cocktail". Unfortunately, I only want to do that for the next 4 or 5 years, then I want to have a real, well-paying job, so I can settle down, get married, have kids, the whole nine yards. What I'm doing right now is just the means to an end--being successful later in life. Sacrifices have to be made in the mean time, so I'm just going to suck it up.

On a side note, I think part of why I hate my job is that it's a job at all. I'm at work more in a DAY than I was in class in a WEEK. Not to mention my earliest class was very rarely before noon. College was the worst preparation for the real world that I can imagine.

Today was the last day of classes at my school. And before we left our professor sat down and gave it to us straight: Do what you want to do and the money will come to you. This was pretty poignant given that the rest of school has pretty much been geered toward polishing future executives.

You may not be loaded, but if you're doing what you like, money isn't going to be as much of a factor.

Also, stop being a fucking tool. You asked for advice and people are giving it. If you aren't going to listen then why ask in the first place? I understand you're bitter because you think you might have made a bad bet, but like everyone else is saying, you're young, smart, and apparently very privileged. Turn it around if you have to.

Also, I do know people genuinely interested in finance. My professor had a pretty storied career and now he's chilling, teaching. He clearly enjoys following the markets, and he enjoys discussing it with students. There's so much depth to the financial world, so if you like learning it can be fascinating.

I'm not suggesting you do anything altruistic, I don't think that necessarily gives life meaning. And there's a lot to be said about being very, very comfortable. Eventually you're gonna be boxed up and lowered into the ground... who cares about the kicks you got on when you're in the coffin?

Great post, MBA Apply. Good advice for anyone here.

Nice personal shots jxtxdx. Sorry for calling you a tool, you're awesome. Real well spoken and all. Thanks for the advice from about half of you, I guess I needed to vent. And to the rest, I guess my post hit a little too close to home and caused a bit of cognitive dissonance, which explains the lashing out. Soldiering on, Envious

the one other thing i would point out is that if you've already gotten into a top MBA program or is where you're heading, that'll give you the perfect opportunity to take a 2 year break and figure out what you actually wanna do...mba's are good ways to change your career and get into new fields

Why does someone do banking other than for the money? That is a serious question. I would like some answers.

duh...

Gecko... my reason, honestly, was to learn capital structure, understand valuation and be able to learn the fundamentals of corporate finance so that I can one day start my own emerging market investment firm. The IB experience would give me the contacts needed to help get me where I want to go down the road.

Some people do have plans and aren't in it solely for the money, although money does play a central role in helping you get to where you want to be. I've had the plan for several years now, started studying Mandarin four years ago, studied abroad in Beijing and created my own major at school (liberal arts school) titled Asian Economics Relations (a combination of Economics, Mandarin, International Relations & East Asian Studies).

My goal ultimately is to do work with Chinese companies, perhaps start with global IB to get the corporate contacts with the companies and leverage the Mandarin as much as possible... and when I'm ready, probably ten years from now, start my own firm. I've always had the entrepreneurial mindset and have wanted to do my own thing and not be reliant on others (ie: be 50 years old working for a large cap sell side bank, vulnerable to getting the axe in a recession) - Financial stability is definitely a huge concern and doing my own thing and being in control (at least as much in control as I possibly can be) is what I want for myself. More importantly, I love China (got introduced to it through my dad's textile business), think it's an amazing place and I love to travel - thereby having my own business, being able to travel, build relationships, and work how I want, when I want is the long-term goal.

Therefore, for me at least, banking is a path that'll help me get to where I want in the end, and in this case, the ends justify the means! (and that's not money, although it's nice in helping pay the bills for the time being).

This must be one of the most popular posts I've seen in quite a long time and one that is pretty relevant too.

Okay the guy is being a bit exagerated here in what he's saying but I feel it is more for dramatic effect than anything else - the actual underlying issue is one that is quite relevant to nearly all juniors in finance. There can be no doubt about it - being an analyst sucks. Being an analyst in the downturn sucks more as you aren't going to get much if any bonus and you aren't getting as much of the learning experience you get from working on lots of live deals. Instead people sit around doing boring pitches that won't go anywhere which is demoralising or spend time surfing the web till they can leave the office, all the time wondering how long till they fire us all.

But, and it's a big but, it is a job at the end of the day and they are not going to be that easy to come by in the coming year or so. Also it's a job that pays quite a lot of money and more importantly it does look good on the CV whatever you go on to do in the future.

22 is actually very young for a 2nd yr analyst. I turned 23 not too long ago and I was by far one of the youngest in my analyst class (based in Europe) with people from countries like Germany or Italy being 24-26 on average and that was at the start of 1st yr. So the idea that it's too late to turn your life around is crap. One of the main things that keeps me going is the fact that no matter how much I dislike things sometimes (don't get me wrong there is plenty I like about the job too) I know that even if I bail after 3yrs I'd still be 24 and could do anything. Recent yrs have distorted at least my view of wealth - I have to admit I went into it purely for money and prestige only to realise I don't care much for either and that if you are good at something money will come anyhow. Most people I know of my parents age who are very well off only started seeing serious money in their mid to late 30s, certainly never in their 20s. I guess you fell into the trap that I did thinking banking was a get rich quick scheme which has failed to show the earnings potential you imagined.

My advice is to recognise deep down that you really do hate the job and leave after whatever period you had set yourself to stick with the job in the first place. There are other ways to make money. It might be daunting but in the long term I'm sure it'll be worth it. One anecdote which I'm sure a lot of others could repeat to some extent is that I've never meet a single person who quit banking who later in any way regretted having done so and I have met enough such people for my little survey to be proof of some sort for me at least.

Heres what you do - Start smoking pot and grown some dreads, join the Peace Corps (http://www.peacecorps.gov/), live in Africa for two years, get a cholera infection, if your lucky have a village love child, come back and realize how good you had it.

Or you can just go to work high, aka THE MOVE. When was the last time you were ripped and upset? Never. Just blaze a J as you get in to the office, and you'll be in a great mood all day.

My parents are not wealthy (both work in back office at a bank about to go down) and I don't have a job still. I would hate to be that guy working as a waiter at IHOP or for some dingy little company. That's not me. I would hate myself.

this thread is depressing

You should be a shepherd like Will Hunting.

I'm exactly like you except I really am not passionate about anything. I'm really not interested in finance at all, I'm just in this business for the money. Now, a year out of college, I haven't earned much and am not happy with my lifestyle. I know in the back of my mind I could add so much more value and be a lot happier if I went back to my country and worked for the upliftment of the poor i.e. by working for an NGO or something. But I love the booze and women in NYC too much to do that hahaha.

Question: What happens if you're not passionate about anything ? All I like to do is go to the gym, watch tv, party and chase women. I'm just not interested in anything else.

SAC >

learn to play poker? or perhaps count cards? My favorite > find yourself a sugar momma?

then turn your life into this guy but sleep with the broad. I am sure your days will be less painful and you will be untouchable!

http://www.tuckermax.com/archives/entries/date/the_now_infamous_tucker_…

(if people are looking for a few more good laughs you got to check out his other stories as well. some are priceless)

My friend showed me pictures of his kids, And all I could show him were pictures of my cribs. He said his daughter got a brand-new report card, And all I got was a brand-new sport scar.

...

Dad cracked a joke, alle the kids laughed, But I couldn’t here him all the way in first-class. Chased the good-life, all my life long, Look back on my life, all my life gone, Where did I go wrong?

...

My god sister getting married by the lake, But I couldn’t figure out who I’d wanna take. Bad enough that I showed up late, I had to leave before they even cut the cake. Welcome to heartbreak.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28066632

Just comes to show... money alone does not bring happiness... but hopefully we all knew that already

I worked with Alex Widmer back when he was at CS Asia. Cheerful guy who was a workaholic - a hardcore banker. I'm so sorry to hear that. I feel for his family.

Here's my story, written before I started trading. I am also ex-premed and this is how I ended up in finance. Maybe you'll find it a good read...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=381498

If you have the ability to do finance and medical school, you obviously have a number of talents that should allow you to pursue other options. Being a doctor or banker are not the only routes to happiness, they are just one of the "common" ways to being well off that do not require a huge amount of creativity from kids in college trying to figure out what they want to do. Figure out your priorities and what makes you happy. If it's money, chase money...but most people end up finding that empty if they are working a job they hate 14+ hours a day.

I dont know why I keep reading this thread. Most people are fighting for their life savings, but here an existential debate over whether or not to make money in the future is taking place...