Active duty military directly to the street 
(Baboon, 133 
Points) on 10/23/09 at 3:58am
I am a Captain currently deployed to Iraq and will not be back until late Spring. I have decided to try the more difficult road and forgo full time MBA school in order to "transition" to Trading.
My rationale for "skipping" the full time route - already have my MSc in Finance, quant emphasis, though not a crazy MFE from Berkeley or anything.
I want to be a trader, full stop. I don't see how an MBA is necessary in the context of an entry or junior trading position. I will apply to go to NYU at night or Chi/NW if I find employment in Chicago.
That being said, what are my best methods to get to the street if I were starting today and want to be employed by early next summer? I know that the job market is killer right now. I have a pretty solid network and plan to use that to the maximum extent possible.
If I have to I will go the prop route, but do I stand any chance at BB, Boutique, or even HF? I will do anything to get my foot in the door.
Thanks.
It'll depend on what kind of
by Emerging AlphaIt'll depend on what kind of trading you want to do. There is a HUGE military network on Wall St., but it will still be extremely difficult to do an entry level analyst gig at an IB. I know for a fact there are a few proprietary shops that would give you a shot without the MBA for sure though. I'm also assuming you are 27+ and taking this route may be preferable anyway. Keep digging, it'll happen
Thanks
by jackstoneEmerging,
Thanks for the insight.
I'm mostly interested in equity derivatives, commodities, and FX, though I know the last two are heavily biased towards quants.
If I end up having to start with flow trading or prime brokerage to start, it does not matter to me. I would eventually like to work at a global macro go anywhere do anything fund, probably 75% system and 25% discretionary. I like defined risk, and I really like RSI, stat arb in general and am very interested in Bridgewater's Currency Overlay strategy.
I'm only 26 actually. I figure if I burn out or hate it (don't see how I could hate it), I still have a couple years to be in the norm for MBA school.
definitely try to use your
by MarginCallingdefinitely try to use your military connections. i'm sure lots of ppl would be happy to give you a shot
Thanks kindly for the input so far
by jackstoneI know that right now we are in the seasonal sweet spot for recruiting, but I do not have a feel for how desolate the market is right now.
I have several friends in the industry assisting me right now and they universally assure me that you can find a job, but that it is taking longer than usual. That is quite contrary to anything in the press and a lot of the job sites I have recently logged into as far as New York and Finance is concerned.
Can anybody chime in here?
The "I'm sure you'll get a chance" line is nice but I guess I am asking if anybody here is willing to actually assist me, either with resume or how to go about marketing myself, to get an entry level role so that I can actually be given that chance. I will video teleconference interview and phone interview as necessary with the hopes of meeting in person when I return to the States.
I know the website application for the BBs is basically a fruitless endeavor. Being that I am physically not in the United States, is there any conduit I can use? I would be willing to pay for Doostang or Linkedin if they actually worked. I do not know if a headhunter would take me on as I obviously do not have industry experience. Military headhunters are great for other industries, but do not have very close ties to big finance.
Can anybody help?
I know for a fact when I was
by monty09I know for a fact when I was at Bear Energy now JPEV that they looked for ex military. A bunch of the heads of desk were ex Navy and Army from back office to front office. My shop is also looking for ex mil but we have not hired any. I know in Houston in the energy biz it can ge very helpful.
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Monty, sorry, my ignorance
by jackstoneI am pretty well versed on this stuff, but JPEV escapes me...
It's JPMs Energy desk? Or Ventures Energy division?
I can't find much on it, which means I can't find anyway to get in contact with these chaps.
JP MORGAN VENTURES ENERGY =
by monty09JP MORGAN VENTURES ENERGY = JP'S ENERGY DESK = FORMERLY BEAR ENERGY
I AM ACTUALLY HAVING DINNER WITH SOME OF THEIR GUYS TONIGHT
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I think Ventures are their
by pillzI think Ventures are their physical side. paper side is with JPM Chase Bank.
...
by ideatingWhat do you mean by RSI? Relative strength index?
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It is what I meant, but I was going to elaborate
by jackstoneI did mean to furthr expand what I liked to employ in trading, but then I guess I realized most firms do not care, other than that you might have an interest.
I realize that institutionally it has little correlation, but have been trading rather actively since high school, especially options. Basically I am comfortable with the technical jargon- believe heavily in Moving Averages, Relative Strength Index, Money Flow Index, Stochastics Oscillator, Moving Average Convergence/Divergence, On Balance Volume, Commodity Channel Index, Sibbet Demand Index, Price Rate of Change, Detrended Price Oscillator, William's Percent R, and Bollinger Bands, etc.
Believe in increasing alpha by buttressing an equity and derivatives portfolio with 15-25% mid to high yield fixed income, especially if it can be levered prudently.
Fundies, Macroecon, and quant are topics with which I am also comfortable.
I guess I was going to let the conversation evolve organically, and get into the nuances when necessary.
Thanks for the help so far folks
by jackstoneJust wanted to express my sincere appreciation at all the assistance I have received.
...
by ideatingBoy, a lot to respond to in this post but I'll refrain on commenting on your market-related content.
To your question on how to get interviews, I'll give you the same advice I gave a close friend's brother who is in a very similar situation to yours.
"Don't fight the system."
There is a very specific recruiting pipeline on Wall Street, for both investment banks and hedge funds. Sure, there are one-offs who make it but if you personally want to maximize your chances of making it I would suggest you play the game. In this case, playing the game means going to a top school, getting good grades and actively networking with alumni from said top school.
Can you do it straight out of the military? Maybe. But do you really want to take that risk in what is still a tight job market?
I've been helping out a few friends who are just now graduating from MBA programs and other similar programs (MFE) and these guys are facing a very tough time getting a markets-related role. Do you think you have what it takes to beat out the Wharton MBA who interned at Morgan Stanley last summer?
From a personal perspective, it probably seems crazy to get yet another graduate degree on top of your MSc but unfortunately, you're off the traditional recruiting track. Best of luck to you but think about what are real alternatives in case you don't get anything.
And no firm respects a part-time/night time MBA (unless you already work there).
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"Boy, a lot to respond to in
by jackstone"Boy, a lot to respond to in this post but I'll refrain on commenting on your market-related content."
I'm sensing that this was a little bit inflammatory. The technical analysis and individual philosophy is certainly not something that I would be splattering all over my resume or even discussing in interviews; I get that they are entirely different beasts. Probably should not have even brought it up in this forum.
Thanks for the other input. I am definitely considering alternatives, but I am proceeding full force with this effort until I'm proven wrong.
ha
by monty09Boy, a lot to respond to in this post but I'll refrain on commenting on your market-related content.
To your question on how to get interviews, I'll give you the same advice I gave a close friend's brother who is in a very similar situation to yours.
"Don't fight the system."
There is a very specific recruiting pipeline on Wall Street, for both investment banks and hedge funds. Sure, there are one-offs who make it but if you personally want to maximize your chances of making it I would suggest you play the game. In this case, playing the game means going to a top school, getting good grades and actively networking with alumni from said top school.
Can you do it straight out of the military? Maybe. But do you really want to take that risk in what is still a tight job market?
I've been helping out a few friends who are just now graduating from MBA programs and other similar programs (MFE) and these guys are facing a very tough time getting a markets-related role. Do you think you have what it takes to beat out the Wharton MBA who interned at Morgan Stanley last summer?
From a personal perspective, it probably seems crazy to get yet another graduate degree on top of your MSc but unfortunately, you're off the traditional recruiting track. Best of luck to you but think about what are real alternatives in case you don't get anything.
And no firm respects a part-time/night time MBA (unless you already work there).
this is funny. you have no clue pal
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m
by uselessBoy, a lot to respond to in this post but I'll refrain on commenting on your market-related content.
To your question on how to get interviews, I'll give you the same advice I gave a close friend's brother who is in a very similar situation to yours.
"Don't fight the system."
There is a very specific recruiting pipeline on Wall Street, for both investment banks and hedge funds. Sure, there are one-offs who make it but if you personally want to maximize your chances of making it I would suggest you play the game. In this case, playing the game means going to a top school, getting good grades and actively networking with alumni from said top school.
Can you do it straight out of the military? Maybe. But do you really want to take that risk in what is still a tight job market?
I've been helping out a few friends who are just now graduating from MBA programs and other similar programs (MFE) and these guys are facing a very tough time getting a markets-related role. Do you think you have what it takes to beat out the Wharton MBA who interned at Morgan Stanley last summer?
From a personal perspective, it probably seems crazy to get yet another graduate degree on top of your MSc but unfortunately, you're off the traditional recruiting track. Best of luck to you but think about what are real alternatives in case you don't get anything.
And no firm respects a part-time/night time MBA (unless you already work there).
this is funny. you have no clue pal
Actually, Ideating’s comment was spot on. To JackStone:
Don’t be arrogant. Just because you’re military doesn’t mean recruiters are going to be kissing your ass. You say that you’re going to go DIRECTLY from the military; but I think a more conservative approach is necessary, especially in this economic climate. Better safe than sorry. Also, to clarify: you don’t need an MBA for trading, only for corporate finance.
The word directly...
by jackstoneExpresses intent; It does not presuppose bypassing a lot of hard work to get there, that's the reason I am on this forum. I think I acknowledged above that any headhunter who would traditionally be associated with military does not have a natural in with the Street.
I am seeking input specifically because of uncertainty in the job market.
Could you please define a more conservative approach? I have stated before that I am willing to do clerical stuff to get my foot in the door. If it means trying to get into a basic summer analyst position at an equity research firm or a ratings firm I will work my butt off to do so.
To me conservative does not necessarily equal top 5 MBA and another $150K on top of the master's I already have, although I recognize that would certainly open many doors. That is why I will be applying to Stern at night.
And as you said, which echoes the entire purpose of my thread, an MBA is not necessary in this instance, for trading.
I guess I am asking if you could please give me something constructive?
Can anybody assist me with this?
by jackstoneWould I be better off submitting resumes online through the recruiting wb portals and then contacting HR departments at various firms, or contacting them first and explaining my situation?
My concerns are that I do not want to get lost in the shuffle of 10000 other applications but I am also geographically constrained in terms of my ability to interview.
Anybody?
dude no one gives a shit, ur
by sternmastadude no one gives a shit, ur not getting an offer, gl man
Stern Fag
by ACEinTHEholedude no one gives a shit, ur not getting an offer, gl man
sternmasta, I normally don't bother replying to your stupid remarks, but I have had enough of this shit. Speaking of shit, you aren't worthy of wiping jackstone's ass. How the fuck did you get into Stern? You act all tough, but something tells me that you would get your ass kicked quite easily if you conjured the testicular fortutide to actually say something to someone's face.
Jackstone, like myself, is currently in Iraq serving his country. I am not asking for your appreciation (I wouldn't want it from a d-bag like you anyway) but maybe you can just have a hot cup of shut-the-fuck-up when jackstone is simply asking for help from others on the forum.
Even though it isnt in the news every day, we go to bed to the sound of gunfire each night and for an extra bonus have the occasional mortar round land near by to give us a nice wake-up call. And all you can do is lay there and hope it doesnt get you. Let me re-iterate: If you have something constructive to contribute, do so--but if not--SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Edmundo is a former marine by the way, I am sure he feels similar.
Thanks again all for the
by jackstoneThanks again all for the assist. I am making some headway on the process.
Does anybody here know specifically of firms that are hiring right now, little or big? As I said before, i am even willing to do the clerical work as an executive assistant type role to a manager if I can get my foot in the door.
I have my resume and cover letter basically as perfect as it is going to get. I have been applying to some jobs online and through the various contacts I have in the industry.
I realize it is slow around this time of year and do not really expect to hear anything until January.
Would anybody out there be willing to take a look at my resume? I can also provide a cover letter as requested.
Thanks.