Note: I don't work in Oil and Gas. But, these things are pretty standard across all industries. The biggest differences come between specific brandnames.

Oil and Gas is probably in the intermediate to slightly intermediate pay range for CF. An FLDP in the industry is likely to have a base between 55-65 depending on the company with very marginal bonus structure. Most non-FLDP analysts make less than that. Work atmosphere at Oil and Gas from the friends I know there is somewhat blue collar and pretty collegial. It's going to be much less stuffy than insurance/services/etc. But less blue collar than say a construction company.

Exit opps for all CF positions are the same. CF within another company in your industry is most likely. CF within a different industry is the next most likely. Other types of jobs within the industry. If you are looking to make a switch to Banking/consulting/ER/etc it's easiest if you do it to a practice group for your industry but it's unlikely no matter what. Easiest chance is if you go to B school to make the transition. There are exceptions to this, mainly depending on name brand. But the "name brands" that make it easiest to switch to banking/consulting/etc are those companies which recruit pretty specifically from targets (think, AAPL).

 
Best Response

First, let me say that AllDay is spot on, I work in CF at one of the majors.

The comp is probably going to be on the higher end of that scale depending on your company. Work atmosphere is definitely blue collar, and hours may vary depending on your group but generally no more than 50 hour weeks.

You will usually have your first role for 1.5 to 2 years. This job is most likely going to SUCK. I'm talking repetitive simple accounting, basic credit, maybe working with truck drivers. There seems to be very few exit opps at this point.

If you do good work and impress people your second position will be much much better. I think an exit become realistic for a lot of people at the end of their second role, probably around 4 years in. At this point you will be able to tell where you stand amongst your peers and you will know whether you are in line for one of the really coveted jobs (trading, certain supervisor....etc). That's when people look to whether they are in it for the long haul, want to look into b-school, or can hopefully transition to a consulting or ER type of job (if you are lucky).

 
Billy Beane:

First, let me say that AllDay is spot on, I work in CF at one of the majors.

The comp is probably going to be on the higher end of that scale depending on your company. Work atmosphere is definitely blue collar, and hours may vary depending on your group but generally no more than 50 hour weeks.

You will usually have your first role for 1.5 to 2 years. This job is most likely going to SUCK. I'm talking repetitive simple accounting, basic credit, maybe working with truck drivers. There seems to be very few exit opps at this point.

If you do good work and impress people your second position will be much much better. I think an exit become realistic for a lot of people at the end of their second role, probably around 4 years in. At this point you will be able to tell where you stand amongst your peers and you will know whether you are in line for one of the really coveted jobs (trading, certain supervisor....etc). That's when people look to whether they are in it for the long haul, want to look into b-school, or can hopefully transition to a consulting or ER type of job (if you are lucky).

Thanks for your insight. Do think things are about the same on the oilfield service side? Especially in SLB, HAL, or BHI?

 

Thank you for the input so far. Do you know of any people who have come in from a Big4 group that covered oil/gas?

"There are only two opinions in this world: Mine and the wrong one." -Jeremy Clarkson
 
AllDay_028:
jon1987:

Thank you for the input so far. Do you know of any people who have come in from a Big4 group that covered oil/gas?

Again, not O&G here, but it's common in my industry to see Big4 ----> SFAs/Finance Managers and it seems to be that way in most industries.

Thats what I figured.

"There are only two opinions in this world: Mine and the wrong one." -Jeremy Clarkson
 

I could talk days about this, here are some highlights to address the OPs questions as I have worked in oil/gas CF for a few years.

Exit opps: There a no good exit opps besides the same oil/gas CF job at a different company. Very rare to see someone in oil/gas CF go to banking/consulting/PE, but the other way around is slightly more common. Hard to move to smaller companies early in your career because they pay so much less than the large companies. Most people would leave if given a decent opportunity, but very few ever get it...

Work atmosphere: Cubes in suburban office complexes for the most part, business casual at most. Very little or no travel, especially during first 10 years. Very little involvement in major corporate decisions, these companies are mostly run by engineers and they view their finance people as simply support staff. Houston/Dallas/OK City/Calgary suck for the most part, Denver is better. Opportunities for overseas assignments in finance are vanishing, do not let the recruiters tell you otherwise.

Compensation: Straight salary, or salary plus small bonus. Oil majors pay at the high end of salary for CF, mid/small cap oil co's pay average to low. Stock does not kick in until you are mid-level manager for most part. Overall, limited upside unless you stay 25+ years and get lucky.

Big 4: I have never seen anyone from Big 4 go directly into oil/gas corporate finance at an entry or mid-level, but I have seen them go into accounting/controllers roles which is very different than CF. Do not do accounting/controllers unless you are an asocial nerd that enjoys repetitive tasks that do not require much creative thinking.

 
TDAlmighty:

I could talk days about this, here are some highlights to address the OPs questions as I have worked in oil/gas CF for a few years.

Exit opps: There a no good exit opps besides the same oil/gas CF job at a different company. Very rare to see someone in oil/gas CF go to banking/consulting/PE, but the other way around is slightly more common. Hard to move to smaller companies early in your career because they pay so much less than the large companies. Most people would leave if given a decent opportunity, but very few ever get it...

Work atmosphere: Cubes in suburban office complexes for the most part, business casual at most. Very little or no travel, especially during first 10 years. Very little involvement in major corporate decisions, these companies are mostly run by engineers and they view their finance people as simply support staff. Houston/Dallas/OK City/Calgary suck for the most part, Denver is better. Opportunities for overseas assignments in finance are vanishing, do not let the recruiters tell you otherwise.

Compensation: Straight salary, or salary plus small bonus. Oil majors pay at the high end of salary for CF, mid/small cap oil co's pay average to low. Stock does not kick in until you are mid-level manager for most part. Overall, limited upside unless you stay 25+ years and get lucky.

Big 4: I have never seen anyone from Big 4 go directly into oil/gas corporate finance at an entry or mid-level, but I have seen them go into accounting/controllers roles which is very different than CF. Do not do accounting/controllers unless you are an asocial nerd that enjoys repetitive tasks that do not require much creative thinking.

bang on

engineers do run the show. the upside is that there is a strong salary premium if you work for a major. you will start out on ~10k more than doing the same role in a different industry.

 
chimpout:
TDAlmighty:

I could talk days about this, here are some highlights to address the OPs questions as I have worked in oil/gas CF for a few years.

Exit opps: There a no good exit opps besides the same oil/gas CF job at a different company. Very rare to see someone in oil/gas CF go to banking/consulting/PE, but the other way around is slightly more common. Hard to move to smaller companies early in your career because they pay so much less than the large companies. Most people would leave if given a decent opportunity, but very few ever get it...

Work atmosphere: Cubes in suburban office complexes for the most part, business casual at most. Very little or no travel, especially during first 10 years. Very little involvement in major corporate decisions, these companies are mostly run by engineers and they view their finance people as simply support staff. Houston/Dallas/OK City/Calgary suck for the most part, Denver is better. Opportunities for overseas assignments in finance are vanishing, do not let the recruiters tell you otherwise.

Compensation: Straight salary, or salary plus small bonus. Oil majors pay at the high end of salary for CF, mid/small cap oil co's pay average to low. Stock does not kick in until you are mid-level manager for most part. Overall, limited upside unless you stay 25+ years and get lucky.

Big 4: I have never seen anyone from Big 4 go directly into oil/gas corporate finance at an entry or mid-level, but I have seen them go into accounting/controllers roles which is very different than CF. Do not do accounting/controllers unless you are an asocial nerd that enjoys repetitive tasks that do not require much creative thinking.

bang on

engineers do run the show. the upside is that there is a strong salary premium if you work for a major. you will start out on ~10k more than doing the same role in a different industry.

Sorry bud, not really correct. With out meaningful geophysical analysis, a reservoir engineer isn't going to help much (assuming he knows little about geology). Geologists are also essential to determining new well placement. Also, least we forget, both of them are worthless if there's no development acreage / leases to drill on. A good landman is worth his / her weight in gold. At the end of the day, you need all three core competencies to get the job done.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 
TDAlmighty:

I could talk days about this, here are some highlights to address the OPs questions as I have worked in oil/gas CF for a few years.

Exit opps: There a no good exit opps besides the same oil/gas CF job at a different company. Very rare to see someone in oil/gas CF go to banking/consulting/PE, but the other way around is slightly more common. Hard to move to smaller companies early in your career because they pay so much less than the large companies. Most people would leave if given a decent opportunity, but very few ever get it...

Work atmosphere: Cubes in suburban office complexes for the most part, business casual at most. Very little or no travel, especially during first 10 years. Very little involvement in major corporate decisions, these companies are mostly run by engineers and they view their finance people as simply support staff. Houston/Dallas/OK City/Calgary suck for the most part, Denver is better. Opportunities for overseas assignments in finance are vanishing, do not let the recruiters tell you otherwise.

Compensation: Straight salary, or salary plus small bonus. Oil majors pay at the high end of salary for CF, mid/small cap oil co's pay average to low. Stock does not kick in until you are mid-level manager for most part. Overall, limited upside unless you stay 25+ years and get lucky.

Big 4: I have never seen anyone from Big 4 go directly into oil/gas corporate finance at an entry or mid-level, but I have seen them go into accounting/controllers roles which is very different than CF. Do not do accounting/controllers unless you are an asocial nerd that enjoys repetitive tasks that do not require much creative thinking.

Wow thanks a ton for this! I have couple more questions for ya too.

MBA's- how many leave and go for one in hopes of landing IBD? Does the engineer heavy culture restrict room for promotions for the pure finance/business major types?

"There are only two opinions in this world: Mine and the wrong one." -Jeremy Clarkson
 

MBA/IBD exit opp: Not likely and I do not know anyone that has successfully followed this path from oil/gas CF as an undergrad. Probably taking a long, frustrating path if this is your gameplan.

Promotions for non-engineers: For the most part you will only get promoted within the finance function and most of your roles will be in finance.

 

I don't see why MBA ----> IBD would be all that unlikely. It's just going to matter more about where you get your MBA from. The thing is, once people get into CF, they rarely leave. A couple things happen. You get a lot firm and industry specific knowledge and capital. You will KNOW the industry and you will KNOW the firm inside and out after a few years. This makes it harder to move industries because other companies know this and it makes it so that most people don't really want to move industries because of that learning curve. It's also true that you tend to see promises of helping pay for part time MBAs so people like to do that. And, lets be honest, you are unlikely to get into an M7 MBA out of CF even from most of the best companies. But some of this is a self fulfilling prophecy because you see less target undergrads, enviroments that are "ok" with lower scores/grades, and generally less ambitious people than in other industries on average. So, what happens is that people get kind of stuck. But, IF you can make it out into a top MBA program, I don't see why IBD would be much harder for you than anyone else in that program. The getting into the top program that places well in IBD will be the major hurdle, though.

 
AllDay_028:

I don't see why MBA ----> IBD would be all that unlikely. It's just going to matter more about where you get your MBA from. The thing is, once people get into CF, they rarely leave. A couple things happen. You get a lot firm and industry specific knowledge and capital. You will KNOW the industry and you will KNOW the firm inside and out after a few years. This makes it harder to move industries because other companies know this and it makes it so that most people don't really want to move industries because of that learning curve. It's also true that you tend to see promises of helping pay for part time MBAs so people like to do that. And, lets be honest, you are unlikely to get into an M7 MBA out of CF even from most of the best companies. But some of this is a self fulfilling prophecy because you see less target undergrads, enviroments that are "ok" with lower scores/grades, and generally less ambitious people than in other industries on average. So, what happens is that people get kind of stuck. But, IF you can make it out into a top MBA program, I don't see why IBD would be much harder for you than anyone else in that program. The getting into the top program that places well in IBD will be the major hurdle, though.

I agree with you 100%. I was going to make the same points, but I did not want to insult anyone and I just thought it was simpler to say that I had not seen it. I have seen several people try and fail to get into top business schools from oil/gas CF, and ended up going to local part-time programs (or not at all). Because of the cradle-to-grave mentality in these companies, there is just not a lot of support for educational programs (particularly MBAs). Bottomline is that people feel trapped as you said.

 
TDAlmighty:
AllDay_028:

I don't see why MBA ----> IBD would be all that unlikely. It's just going to matter more about where you get your MBA from. The thing is, once people get into CF, they rarely leave. A couple things happen. You get a lot firm and industry specific knowledge and capital. You will KNOW the industry and you will KNOW the firm inside and out after a few years. This makes it harder to move industries because other companies know this and it makes it so that most people don't really want to move industries because of that learning curve. It's also true that you tend to see promises of helping pay for part time MBAs so people like to do that. And, lets be honest, you are unlikely to get into an M7 MBA out of CF even from most of the best companies. But some of this is a self fulfilling prophecy because you see less target undergrads, enviroments that are "ok" with lower scores/grades, and generally less ambitious people than in other industries on average. So, what happens is that people get kind of stuck. But, IF you can make it out into a top MBA program, I don't see why IBD would be much harder for you than anyone else in that program. The getting into the top program that places well in IBD will be the major hurdle, though.

I agree with you 100%. I was going to make the same points, but I did not want to insult anyone and I just thought it was simpler to say that I had not seen it. I have seen several people try and fail to get into top business schools from oil/gas CF, and ended up going to local part-time programs (or not at all). Because of the cradle-to-grave mentality in these companies, there is just not a lot of support for educational programs (particularly MBAs). Bottomline is that people feel trapped as you said.

Haha, I never worry about offending people. Ya, it's definitely a hurdle. I'm planning on going through the application process this upcoming year, too, so we'll see what happens. I'm not particularly optimistic, though.
 
TDAlmighty:
AllDay_028:

I don't see why MBA ----> IBD would be all that unlikely. It's just going to matter more about where you get your MBA from. The thing is, once people get into CF, they rarely leave. A couple things happen. You get a lot firm and industry specific knowledge and capital. You will KNOW the industry and you will KNOW the firm inside and out after a few years. This makes it harder to move industries because other companies know this and it makes it so that most people don't really want to move industries because of that learning curve. It's also true that you tend to see promises of helping pay for part time MBAs so people like to do that. And, lets be honest, you are unlikely to get into an M7 MBA out of CF even from most of the best companies. But some of this is a self fulfilling prophecy because you see less target undergrads, enviroments that are "ok" with lower scores/grades, and generally less ambitious people than in other industries on average. So, what happens is that people get kind of stuck. But, IF you can make it out into a top MBA program, I don't see why IBD would be much harder for you than anyone else in that program. The getting into the top program that places well in IBD will be the major hurdle, though.

I agree with you 100%. I was going to make the same points, but I did not want to insult anyone and I just thought it was simpler to say that I had not seen it. I have seen several people try and fail to get into top business schools from oil/gas CF, and ended up going to local part-time programs (or not at all). Because of the cradle-to-grave mentality in these companies, there is just not a lot of support for educational programs (particularly MBAs). Bottomline is that people feel trapped as you said.

@TDAlmighty What tier of schools are you talking about? I'm in my second year and in a small group, so I don't have much exposure to this. You think it would be difficult for someone in O&G with the appropriate scores to get into like a Duke, Darden, Ross... McCombs type of school?

 

In O&G, not finance. I will say there are some decent jobs for business majors. I've met plenty of people working in commercial/BD that have cool jobs. I've met plenty of people with business majors that had a lot of fun with trading gas after it was deregulated as well, although that era is mostly over now. If you actually are interested in O&G and are willing to learn about what’s going on I think there is opportunity. The one piece of advice I have is stick with a super-major early on. Find somewhere that has a more functional organization structure and you will be doing better stuff working in finance. The Independents are much more likely to have their reservoir engineers work the commercial/BD stuff simply because they aren't staffed to have someone working just those issues.

I have no idea about exits specific to finance, but I will say that most people that end up in O&G seem to stay simply because O&G pays better all else being equal.

 
TDAlmighty:

@mike123: Having participated and observed oil/gas CF & BD first-hand, I respectfully disagree with both your data and advice.

Can you be a little bit more specific? Having gained most of my knowledge through knowing people in these roles rather than being in them myself are you saying that the jobs suck or that I have misjudged where the opportunities are or what? While I have a few good friends working outside my current area, it is quite possible that my observations could be an artifact of location or perhaps specific operators I happen to know well. I appreciate any insights.

 
PetEng:

A major, unmentioned benefit for working in O&G is a reasonably high chance to work a 9/80 schedule. Benefit structures are usually unmatched in today's environment.

While I mostly agree, I do not think the super-aggressive types on WSO are looking for a middle-class job that they can grind out for 40 years until their pension checks start coming.
 

What kind of schools do the mega-size firms target? I have pretty non-traditional background and have been looking at one year MA programs at Duke, UVA, and Wake Forest.

"There are only two opinions in this world: Mine and the wrong one." -Jeremy Clarkson
 
jon1987:

What kind of schools do the mega-size firms target? I have pretty non-traditional background and have been looking at one year MA programs at Duke, UVA, and Wake Forest.

Depends on what type of role you are trying to get. O&G companies hire anyone from a HS grad (roughneck) to PHDs (researchers) and everything in between.
 
TDAlmighty:
jon1987:

What kind of schools do the mega-size firms target? I have pretty non-traditional background and have been looking at one year MA programs at Duke, UVA, and Wake Forest.

Depends on what type of role you are trying to get. O&G companies hire anyone from a HS grad (roughneck) to PHDs (researchers) and everything in between.

I'd be seeking a corporate finance/FLDP role.
"There are only two opinions in this world: Mine and the wrong one." -Jeremy Clarkson
 

It's pretty safe to assume people on here or looking for business-related positions, I highly doubt any of these guys are looking to become or could even handle being a roughneck (though that particular line of work has gotten a lot easier/safer over the last decade, at least at the majors).

If you're going for an MFin at Duke, UVA, or Wake, you probably won't have much of a problem getting a decent corpfin job at an F500, so long as you perform well. If you're going for a Master of Art History, good fucking luck.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

Since most of the comments and questions seem to center working an entry-level position in CF, I will try to give a clearer picture. For the most part, entry-level (straight-out-of-undergrad) finance positions at an oil/gas company tend to be considered "generalist" positions and not specifically "corporate" finance. Many people will not even now what role they are filling until well after they accept their offer. This will often take the form of a rotation program where you could work at a refinery for a year or two managing a project budget, work a year or two in an upstream asset team developing and managing the asset's forecasts/spending, or a year or two doing credit analysis on customers/contractors. There is a chance that you could work in the capital markets or business development teams, but this typically involves only excel modelling with little or no external interaction.

@mike123: The reason I did not agree with your post is because I felt that you left an impression that undergrad business/finance majors were "out meeting people and doing deals" in their BD roles. Generally speaking, but especially at the majors, these externally-facing BD roles are for the 40+ crowd that have at least 15-20 years of experience under their belt. In addition, due to technical nature of the industry, the majority of these people tend to be either engineers or geologists. If a finance person does land a BD role, they almost always tend to be strictly modeling roles (entry/mid level) or transaction support (mid/high level). I just do not view these internally facing roles as "cool jobs". I guess this could be a matter of opinion. In addition, your advice of major vs. non-major or functional vs. non-functional is just too general and not helpful in this case. Majors, for example, tend to do very little capital markets activities versus the independents. So if an undergrad was truly interested in learning the inner workings of a bond issuance, for example, they might be much more likely to see that at an independent. Lastly, almost all (if not all) upstream independents have a separate and distinct BD executive/group. Due to the constantly depleting nature of the assets, it is almost a requirement unless the company is happy letting it self get smaller.

@D M: I agree with your advice if he is seeking a finance role--would have been better if jon1987 could have explained "non-traditional" because he might be wasting his time getting a masters.

 

Thanks for the response TD, I see exactly where you are coming from. I do think there is at least an expressed change in stance coming from majors in terms their willingness to send technical disciplines off to work commercial later in their careers. There is a growing desire for people to specialize into subject matter experts within their discipline if they are not trying to move into a management role. You are still able to move toward external facing roles, but it's not being encouraged to the extent that I'm told it was in the past. It seems like this should improve opportunities for people working the internal facing BD/commercial roles today. I know people who have taken that path, but they may just be the outliers. My data set is limited given that my work history doesn't include much interaction with people people that have tried to make it to those roles and didn't end up there.

 

I said non-traditional because of my background. Worked as a project estimator full-time out high school in commercial construction, went to college and just graduated last weekend with a degree in history plus electives in econ and poli sci. Obviously not the usual path. I discovered an interest in finance too little too late to switch majors or even add a minor so I'm looking at those MA programs for a reason. I also went to a school that is nowhere near oil/gas companies or where they recruit.

"There are only two opinions in this world: Mine and the wrong one." -Jeremy Clarkson
 
jon1987:

I said non-traditional because of my background. Worked as a project estimator full-time out high school in commercial construction, went to college and just graduated last weekend with a degree in history plus electives in econ and poli sci. Obviously not the usual path. I discovered an interest in finance too little too late to switch majors or even add a minor so I'm looking at those MA programs for a reason. I also went to a school that is nowhere near oil/gas companies or where they recruit.

As long as your college was accredited, your GPA was good, and you are a US citizen -- I would go ahead and apply to as many open positions as possible. I hate to see you lose a year and a bunch of money if you do not have to. You have nothing to lose.
 

I'm looking to get into CF in O&G but lack energy exposure on my resume (midwest school). I was looking to get energy exposure through an econ or fin grad program. Are there any schools with an energy culture that I am missing applying to? List below,

Texas - Austin Texas A&M SMU University of Houston Colorado School of Mines Tulane Rice TCU

 
stewbone:

I'm looking to get into CF in O&G but lack energy exposure on my resume (midwest school). I was looking to get energy exposure through an econ or fin grad program. Are there any schools with an energy culture that I am missing applying to? List below,

Texas - Austin
Texas A&M
SMU
University of Houston
Colorado School of Mines
Tulane
Rice
TCU

  1. UT - Austin
  2. UT - Austin
  3. UT - Austin
  4. Program in a particular state you'd like to be (eg School of Mines-->Denver / CO; Tulane-->NOLA / LA)
  5. The rest
Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 
stewbone:

I'm looking to get into CF in O&G but lack energy exposure on my resume (midwest school). I was looking to get energy exposure through an econ or fin grad program. Are there any schools with an energy culture that I am missing applying to? List below,

Texas - Austin
Texas A&M
SMU
University of Houston
Colorado School of Mines
Tulane
Rice
TCU

You can look at this program: http://www.jsg.utexas.edu/eer/ However from my conversations with them it's not really for people right out of college and pretty much everybody comes in with 2 or 3 years of work experience.
 

Interesting thread. I would agree that a CF position is not where you want to be. Ultimately, that is not the business of the business, which is where future leaders come from. At a major, this is the E&P guys. At a refiner, it is the commercial group because we live and die by the refining margins we can pull through our trading. Commercial is a good spot. Most entry roles are as a junior analysts or scheduling assistant, from there you work your way up to trading. I have a non-traditional background as well: Service Academy and 2nd tier MBA. Moved from the back office at a BB to a front office commercial job at an independent refiner, not a major. I don't know what the exit opportunities would be as I haven't left yet. However, a trader development program seems likely. I personally think the mountain top is either a HF or a trading role at one of the true commodities/trading houses (Glencore, Vitol, Noble, Trafi, etc.) which are a better environment than a BB anyway as people are leaving left and right due to regulation and bonus issues. I personally believe that this trend will continue. Private trading houses do not have the reporting or leverage issues. Also, I find moving actual physical product more interesting that just watching the screen...

 

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DrApeman
98.9
7
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dosk17
98.9
8
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
9
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”