I am a junior at a non-target, interning at a well known bank this summer (not BB), within the Risk Management Group. Hopefully, with some hard work, I will receive an offer to come back for full time. I want to work in ER or S&T for full time, and will be applying and networking for those roles outside of my bank.
What should I do to go about internally transferring to those divisions this summer?
Are there things I can do during my program to help increase my chances of the division change?
When is the right time to contact someone at the bank? Should I have a counter-offer or at least secured something else before asking?
In my own experience, they will not allow you to switch during your internship. The best way to approach this is to kill it all summer at your current role, build a strong connection to your manager, and at the end of the internship tell him/her you really enjoyed it, but decided X group is what you really want to pursue. Two things to note with this strategy: 1- you will not get an offer from your current group. You better be ok with that. 2- you will need to speak to the X group you want to join and inquire about their role, without getting in the way.
It may not work, but it's your best shot. Do NOT tell them halfway through you want to switch- they'll stop giving you more responsibility, and will think negatively of you. You want the higher ups to want you to get the role you want- and there is nothing wrong with saying "I'm really glad I got to try this, but I've determined it just isn't what I want to do." Nobody can fault an intern for that.
Thank you for that advice. Assuming i receive a FT offer, what is the best time to ask for the switch? Im not sure if telling someone immediately after the end of my internship or waiting until I have received another offer is the best idea, considering I know that my bank fills a majority of their entry level gigs before september.
Also, do you think that Risk Management at a large reputable bank, considering a good resume, will help leverage research and trading interviews at MM/Boutique sized firms come the 2016 hiring cycle?
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The only issue is that it's not that easy to transfer from MO to FO. If you were interning in say DCM but wanted to join a S&T position, that would be more doable. But moving to middle office to front office is quite tricky imo
I appreciate the honesty. Do you think I stand a chance interviewing for FO roles at other places?
To piggyback on what financeguy15 said. If you do let your manager know your interest in other groups it will significantly impact your chances of getting a return offer at the bank. They don't like giving out offers and having people not accept them so even if you kill it and deserve a return offer they might not give it to you if they're sensing your short term aspirations are with another department. That being said if you come out of the summer without a return offer regardless of the "story" it will severely impact your chances on getting interviews with another bank. Nobody ever knows the real story why people don't get return offers and frankly they rarely ever take the time to find it out, the bottom line is if you got a return offer it puts you on a totally separate playing field than if you don't. Since you're working in risk it that means you probably have much better than banking hours my advice to you is to be the best darn risk summer analyst they have ever scene get yourself a return offer network outside of the bank... start setting up coffees to the second half of the summer and the second you get your return offer shop it around. Going from middle office to front office is hard but I know a few people who done it from sa to ft.
TriRunner thanks for the advice. I plan on working hard to receive the ask back. Do you have any advice for what to expect in full time recruiting? Should I apply for risk at BBs while applying for FO roles at MM and smaller firms? Really stressing about the FT cycle and I havent even started the summer role yet.
Depends what you really want to do..... also depends where you have contacts...... There are definitely a much more limited amount of slots open for ft gigs but it's not impossible to land one... Where you apply is ultimitely up to where you have the best "in." You can network with people in multiple departments at the same bank.... during the summer, hopefully they can best advise you on how to get into the interview process. You need a compelling story of why you want to switch to the new bank or why you want to switch to the new department.... Also you must know your technical interview skills cold and keep up with the news or else none of your contacts will go to bat for you at this stage of the process
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Switching coverage groups from SA to FT (Originally Posted: 01/06/2009)
If you get an offer to return to your bank for FT after an SA stint, would it be possible to switch out from the industry group you were in over the summer?
Assuming it is a generalist offer, yes. People switch all the time.
im in same boat, do people in the group that extended you offer often resent the kids who dont come back to their group?
SA in one group, FT in another (Originally Posted: 08/09/2010)
Say I did my summer internship in ECM and I got a FT offer, how likely/easy do you think it would be for me to switch into an M&A Industry group?
can y'all help a brother out?
SA to FT offer: Group Specific? Or General Offer from Firm? (Originally Posted: 05/15/2007)
When the BB's give ft offers to their SA's is it an offer to stay in the group that they interned in, or simply a general offer.
Usually in the last week / day before your contract ends.
sometimes its after you have finished they should tell you the during training when they will communicate offers.
depending on the bank you will either get a group specific offer in the group you were in, a group specific offer in another group (if you tried to switch), or a generalist offer (citigroup and lehman come to mind) because they don't place bankers until the end of training. obviously if its a generalist offer you should have a step up on the competition to get back into the group you interned in--should you want to do that
anyone know for JPM?
how easy is it to transfer groups after a successful SA position? (i'm assuming it depends on the bank, obviously, but just curious across the board)
it depends on if the group you want to go to has spots available... also a lot of banks dont' have formal processes for transferring within a division so its going to take a lot of work on your part. there are also internal politics to deal with (with different managers and MDs not wanting to step on each others' toes)
in general its not that easy to do
Are SA --> FT Offers Desk Specific? (Originally Posted: 06/20/2011)
Hi all,
Am an SA at a top BB this summer. I was just wondering if SA FT offers are desk specific, and if so, how easy it would be to move to another desk as a first year S&T analyst?
Thanks in advance.
Uhh.. ask your HR? Not sure how that doesn't come up when researching banks before/during interviews but that's just me.
To answer your question (sort of) depends on what bank you are at. JPM and MS (not 100% sure) is desk specific. Citi and GS are not (not 100% on GS either).
i would assume so. the BB that i am at this summer hires directly to a desk (and not necessarily a desk youve rotated on)
Depends entirely on the bank, some are desk specific, some are rotational.
Please help! - Switch to industry group internally for FT after SA? (Originally Posted: 07/07/2013)
Anyone have any advice/experience on switching from product group (where I currently am for the summer) to an industry group for full time? I'd definitely prefer to switch internally as opposed to externally, but know it's difficult and would require networking without pissing off my current group in the process. I'm loving the internship in general (well, as much as any normal human can love banking..) but am definitely not a fit for my group.
Any tips on how to start (keeping in mind that I obviously still don't have a FT offer yet)? All advice very much appreciated - thanks.
Work hard, get that FT offer and when you hold that in your hands black on white, you can approach someone in HR or another group head if you can switch groups for FT.
Maybe try to have some humility and learn something while you're on the desk. Bust your ass this summer, get the offer, and walk away with a job and some serious knowledge.
Being an expert on the minutiae of a given product is probably the best way to create value early on as an industry banker. You can get a lot of positive exposure as an analyst if people know they can go to you for product expertise.
For example - in my own career, I started out in a product group and for a couple years was regularly shuttled back and forth between product/industry groups as the bank rejiggered its org chart. That's where I learned how important product knowledge is even in industry groups.
The industry group had these first thing Monday morning total group meetings where the group head, who was an absolute beast and a pretty big dude in the bank, would just rip through every deal that was in the pipeline. This guy is like... The General Patton of that bank. No excuses, no mercy.
So anyways, Monday morning first day in the industry group and I'm hung over as shit. Im on the wrong side of a several day cocaine binge, and i just want to crawl into a hole and die. Group head guy is in his element, ripping and roaring through deal after deal. He gets to a major financial sponsor that is about to purchase an enormous securitizable portfolio, looks at me out of nowhere, and says "NYCbandar, do we have a bond deal here?" I'm an ABS guy by trade and I knew my shit so I fielded it. In front of everybody in the big fancy morning meeting. I said something like "come on, it's [major sponsor]. Sure the deal could be done in the bond markets, but a client like that - they'll slap somebody and that person will get there on the ABL. A bond deal could be done, but they would never pull the trigger on it." Obviously nowadays it wouldn't mean shit for me, but as a little baby analyst, The deal executed exactly how I said it was going to execute, and after that, people knew my name.
So like - I'm not really trying to harp on how legendary I am, even though I do happen to be a giant among ants. What I'm trying to drive home is that the only way industry groups earn fees is by selling products. The name of the game is products, and as a junior guy if you have a well developed understanding of a certain product, you will be valuable, I guarantee it. Just sack up and learn your shit and the opportunities will come. Take advantage of this opportunity to learn a product, and don't get cocky - not everyone is going to get an offer, and the world doesn't give a shit which group you would have preferred. Don't fuck this up.
I think GS and MS recruit separately between capital markets and industry groups , so if you're at either of those you probably can't change. Elsewhere, during FT group allocations, just say you don't want capital markets.
Does anyone have any experience with internal transfers? (Originally Posted: 05/19/2007)
For example if a summer intern gets a FT offer from a BB in i-banking but might want to move to research or S&T at the same BB how common/uncommon is this?
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