BB vs EB in London
Hi guys, I have been following the forum for some time now and I need some perspectives regarding this question. How is the elite boutiques or independent advisory firms generally viewed, compared to bulge-bracket banks in London in terms of PE placement, US business school and general comps, prestige? I have read a few posts on this site but there is not much said or insightful comments about the differences.
I'm a final year student at a target university and I'm considering 3 offers from a BB non GS, MS, JPM and from 2 EBs (among Centerview, Evercore, PJT, Greenhill, Moelis, PWP). I know Lazard and Rothschild are the biggest independent advisory firms in Europe but Rothschild recruits very late in the year and I failed Lazard's last round.
I've met with a lot of analysts and associates from all 3 places already and they all seem genuinely very nice, which makes the decision even more difficult. Ultimately, I'm looking to join a MF PE after 2,3 years in IBD and transfer to the US for an MBA. If this was for the US, I think people would gravitate towards the EB offers without thinking twice but I'm not sure about the UK's presence and reputation of these boutique places. I wish there is a forum like WSO but purely focused on the UK (student room does not even come close to this ...). I have until the end of September to decide on this.
Thank you all for your comments in advance!
Hi Jameskirk112,
To go to PE funds, you'd better go to BB banks even if this is not GS, MS, JPM, especially in strong groups (different in each bank). However, I think Evercore is also well known in Europe so I add it to BB group. If you look at PE fund teams, they are all from BB (also explained by the size of the team).
In terms of comps, you'd better go to Boutiques.
This is up to you then.
I am curious to know how did you get all those offers? Were you a SA? Because graduate processes are just beginning, banks did not make FT offer to graduate candidates yet in London, as far as I know
@Ctlm Thanks for your insights! I was actually a summer analyst at the BB and I went through accelerated recruiting in 2 of the boutiques in London. I was contacted by a headhunter I know and she introduced me to these opportunities as the boutiques underhired or expected to convert less than 100% of their summer analyst class. The process lasted 1 week after my internship ended so I had enough time to secure other offers. Met with the boutique's team in an informal meeting session and was invited back for 2 rounds of interviews and ACs. Very quick and informal process I would say.
I think that I really like the team here in the BB and even though it has a stronger reputation to the general public, I feel that the elite boutiques, as reiterated many times here on this forum, are much more respected to people in the business world and might actually offer a greater learning experience. But I'm not entirely sure yet because I have not personally worked for any boutiques. Again thank you!
Alright I understand.
If you have Evercore, I would go for it (stronger than non top 3 BBs) except if my BB is BAML.
PJT Partners, Moelis and Centerview did not prove anything in Europe. For the moment they are strong only in the US (as opposed to Evercore which is also strong in Europe).
PWP and Greenhill are a level below BB to me, and they did not prove anything anywhere.
If It's PJT, go for it. Hands down best junior level experience
Would you mind clarifying that a little bit please? In terms of learning experience? Deal flow? Culture and people? Are headhunters aware of PJT Partners, which is a product of Blackstone spin-off? Thanks.
Someone I know just joined as an analyst and he's been having a blast. High level of client interaction, travel, client events, almost no weekend work, top colleagues and good bonus.
Btw this is specific to London, not sure about things in NYC
I would add a few things not mentioned in previous posts. The boutique experience is very different from that of BBs. Places like Greenhill, Moelis, PJT allow you to work in both M&A and restructuring, which I think is a very valuable opportunity for a junior analyst like yourself. Evercore, as stated above, is very reputable here in London. PWP less so. Not sure about Greenhill so I wouldn't comment on that. All in all, I would say that BAML Citi CS are very strong BBs in London. I've interned in one of them before and their teams are very good in terms of culture, people and deal flow. Personally, I would take them over the boutiques if you're set on the exit opps. Comps should matter less for a junior position anyway. If you got Barclays, UBS or Deutsche however, it becomes more of a difficult choice for me.
Just a disclaimer: I'm very fond of Centerview and PJT, for what the huge transactions list and legacy reputation respectively but in London, I think only Lazard and Rothschild can really compete head to head with the BBs in terms of both volume and value of transactions. Just my opinion, anyone please feel free to correct me.
Agreed. If it was Lazard or Rothschild then I think my decision would be easier! Damn me for not preparing enough for Lazard's final round ... Thanks for your comment.
~
Deutsche, UBS definitely not. Steer well clear
I second this. Stay the hell away from UBS (especially in London) or Deutsche (again, especially in London)
EMEA League Tables (Source: Mergermarket)
Since 01/01/2012
17 PWP
25 Centerview
27 Evercore
29 Greenhill
Since 01/01/2013
16 PWP
22 Centerview
24 Greenhill
29 Evercore
Since 01/01/2014
16 PWP
20 Centerview
22 Greenhill
24 Evercore
Since 01/01/2015
17 PWP
19 Greenhill
22 Evercore
30 Centerview
Since 01/01/2016
23 Centerview
28 PWP
29 Evercore
43 Greenhill
Given the facts above, I am a bit surprised that some people on this board recommend Evercore over any of the other EBs. Curious to learn why people think Evercore is doing any better than other EBs in London since this is definitely not reflected in the league tables?! The only observation one could make based on the data shown above is that EBs are generally not doing that well in Europe compared to the US (as highlighted earlier).
I would be surprised if there is any meaningful difference when it comes to placement between the EBs in London. All EBs seem to send some candidates to MFs or upper MM funds (e.g. GHL -> Permira, PWP -> Cinven, Evercore -> Advent), but the number is obviously not comparable to the top BBs.
To address your first point, I think Evercore is putting a lot of resources and efforts to build out its operation here in London but ranking is ranking so I cannot argue with that.
With regards to EBs not ranking as highly as BBs, of course they are not. BBs tend to have huge balance sheet to help them win deals and mandates. They will be involved in more transactions given that alone. Second point is that the teams in BBs are much larger compared to EBs, which take like 6-15 analysts a year. In 15 minutes searching LinkedIn, I could pull 20 current PE associates, with past companies as EBs. On an absolute basis, may not be significant but on a % of the EBs class, it is a very good number. But as indicated in your post, you're comparing to top BBs which I assume to be GS, MS, JPM. EBs are certainly not up there yet in London but compared to UBS, Deutsche, Barclays, I would take Evercore in a heart beat.
Indeed, I certainly agree on your post. Would not only take Evercore but also other EBs such as Centerview or Perella over banks like Deutsche, Barclays or UBS in London. The only thing I tried to highlight was that I cannot see a major difference between the different EBs in London, I'd put them all in the same basket (whereas the landscape looks obviously different in the US). They tend to have a different focus though, with Centerview being more focused on clients in the UK, Moelis concentrated on winning RX mandates and Perella with a strong angle towards France/Germany.
^ In a nutshell. I would even go as far as comparing JPM London to Evercore.
I heard that most of the summers at PJT for the past two years had cross-offers with BB (including GS/MS/JP) and other EBs (CVP / Evercore). And working in RX as well as M&A is a big plus for places like PJT, Moelis & Greenhill...
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