Wall Street Oasis logo

  • Recent
    • All Recent Content
    • My Recent Posts
    • My Bookmarks
    • WSO Chat Room
    • Top WSO Bloggers
    • Hot Topics - Week
    • Hot Topics - Month
    • Hot Topics - Year
    • Hot Topics - All Time
  • Forums
    • Post Forum Topic
    • Highest Ranked Posts
    • Most Commented
    • WSO Chat Room
    • Job Search Advice
    • Investment Banking
    • Private Equity
    • Venture Capital
    • Trading
    • Consulting
    • Hedge Funds
    • Corporate Finance
    • Equity Research
    • Asset Management
    • WSO Success Stories
    • Other Careers
    • Business School
    • Resume Forum
    • Wall St. Fashion
    • Wall St. Mentors
    • Monkey Around
    • Monkey Marketplace
    • Site Suggestions
  • Groups
    • Browse Groups
    • Create Group
    • My Groups
  • FAQs
    • FAQs
    • WSO Company Database
    • WSO Finance Dictionary
    • About WSO
    • Press
    • Contact Us
    • RSS Sitemap
    • Advertise on WSO
  • Events
  • Login
  • Sign Up!
  • Company
    Research
  • Modeling
  • Mentors
  • Video
    Library
  • Interview
    Guides
  • Job Board
  • Resume
    Review
  • Discounts

Want the Secrets to Succeed on Wall Street?

Click below to get access to our Free Wall St. Compensation Report and more.

About WSO
Wall Street Oasis » Forums » I-Banking Bullpen

Did Geithner Have a Choice? Forum's RSS Feed Share

dunston17's picture
dunston17
     IB
 
(Gorilla, 631
 
Points)
 on 1/27/10 at 4:04pm
geithner

After watching Tim Geither get torn a new one by the House today, I couldn't help but put into question the validity of some of his answers - especially of those relating to the Fed's repayment of AIG's swaps to counterparties such as Goldman Sachs and other big banks.

Geither asserted that when deciding what to do, the Fed "had no choice" but to pay back the swaps at 100 cents on the dollar, or else face the collapse of AIG and, in turn, the entire financial system. Now, it may well be true that if AIG wasn't able to honor its CDS contracts, it would have been faced with a credit rating's downgrade - losing investor's confidence in it's operations and making it much more difficult to raise capital - and eventually forcing it to file for bankruptcy. But my question is, was there another solution to this problem that would ensure AIG's viability, while at the same time honoring the counterparty swaps at a more realistic price? I understand that nobody at the time (and nobody still, for that matter) had any idea how to value these securities, but 100 cents on the dollar does seem ridiculous - these swaps clearly lost substantial value from when they were originally bought.

Geithner said that there was no alternative solution to what the Treasury and the Fed ended up doing, aside from letting AIG fail. A Congressman from Massachussetts replied that he believed they had to have other choices as there had to be "increments" between the two extremes (ie. haircuts). Were there, in fact, other viable options, or were Geithner, Paulson and co. simply trying to help out their buddies on the Street while using the seemingly easiest way to keep AIG afloat?

  •  
  •  
Tags:
  • swaps
  • Goldman Sachs
  • geithner
  • AIG
  • I-Banking Bullpen
Edmundo Braverman's picture

Goldman offered to take

Edmundo Braverman
     ST
 
 
(Human, 11,075
 
Points)
  on 1/27/10 at 5:44pm

Goldman offered to take haircuts on their swaps weeks before the AIG bailout and the NYFRB told them to "stand down". Before it was a sure thing that the Fed was going to step in and save their asses, Goldman was already negotiating a reduced payoff on their swaps.

This was a blatant giveaway. The Fed could have insisted on across-the-board haircuts on AIG swaps and the banks would've lined up to take them. But why bother when the govt will pay you off at 100%?

  •  
  • 0
  •  
TheKing's picture

Lil Timmy needs to get booted

TheKing
     PE
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,053
 
Points)
  on 1/27/10 at 7:02pm

Lil Timmy needs to get booted out. Suuuuch a scumbag.

Check out my WSO Blog

  •  
  • 0
  •  
CompBanker's picture

Agree with Edmundo. 100% on

CompBanker
     PE
 
 
(Almost Human, 7,797
 
Points)
  on 1/27/10 at 7:14pm

Agree with Edmundo. 100% on the dollar was too rich. Too be honest, this doesn't bother me as much as the lack of transparency does. I want to be able to trace the money, not just see that $x billion went to AIG and they are "a little bit better now."

CompBanker

  •  
  • 0
  •  
swagon's picture

CompBanker wrote: Agree with

swagon
     EN
 
(Neanderthal, 2,932
 
Points)
  on 1/28/10 at 5:03am
CompBanker:

Agree with Edmundo. 100% on the dollar was too rich. Too be honest, this doesn't bother me as much as the lack of transparency does. I want to be able to trace the money, not just see that $x billion went to AIG and they are "a little bit better now."

CompBanker, how dare you accuse Hank and Timmy of obfuscating their methods? If they’re anything, they’re open and honest ole chaps who only provide direct and incisive answers when they visit Congress. Not evasive in the least. In fact, I thank God every day for their keen ability to wave the magic treasury wand and save the world, all the while clearly explaining what’s going on. And if you tell me they have too much power, well then I hope King Obama offs your head.

  •  
  • 0
  •  
BCbanker's picture

Goldman bought insurnace.

BCbanker
     IB
 
 
(Senior Orangutan, 494
 
Points)
  on 1/28/10 at 10:16am

Goldman bought insurnace. The "hurricane" came and destroyed the house. I'd be pissed if the insurance company told me that my house would not be paid for in full despite the fact that I paid my premiums. Government was right to pay out. It is their fault that there is not more governance over risk exposure.

Insurance cannot effectively operate in an unregulated market. Because of bankruptcy laws and the way insurance is structured you can take premiums representing risk higher than you will be held accountable for.

  •  
  • 0
  •  
hungry's picture

BCbanker wrote: Goldman

hungry
     IB
 
(Orangutan, 251
 
Points)
  on 1/28/10 at 3:34pm
BCbanker:

Goldman bought insurnace. The "hurricane" came and destroyed the house. I'd be pissed if the insurance company told me that my house would not be paid for in full despite the fact that I paid my premiums. Government was right to pay out. It is their fault that there is not more governance over risk exposure.

Insurance cannot effectively operate in an unregulated market. Because of bankruptcy laws and the way insurance is structured you can take premiums representing risk higher than you will be held accountable for.

My thoughts exactly. This is no different than the type of brinkmanship that goes on during any prebankruptcy negotiation process (ie...pay me my money, or I'll see you in court). The government has no right to force private investors to take losses and essentially amend contracts ex post (similar to the madness that went on with the auto bailout). It would have been a step in the wrong direction to demand that american AND foreign banks take haircuts on insurance that they paid for. The loss of confidence in our financial system would have definitely outweighed the gains (probably the reasoning behind TGs giving them 100%)

  •  
  • 0
  •  
Barboone's picture

^^^ great metaphor, it

Barboone
     ST
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 804
 
Points)
  on 1/29/10 at 12:40am

^^^ great metaphor, it basically goes back to the people that cooked their personal finances to get a mortgage they coul not afford. I bet those people where the same @$$holes that protested in front of AIG when they got their bonuses. Human behavior is something else...Tame it.

"Climbing a mountain that's only getting steeper"
-Barboon

  •  
  • 0
  •  
disgruntledgoldbug's picture

Tim Geithner Will Be Fired

disgruntledgoldbug
     O
 
(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
  on 2/1/10 at 11:15am

Tim Geithner Will Be Fired After The November Elections

This article, published in early January, states that Treasury Secretary TImothy Geithner could be gone by November of this year after the elections. Another article revealed around the same time suggested that Rahm Emanuel could leave his Chief-of-Staff post and run for Mayor of Chicago.

  •  
  • 0
  •  

Related WSO Content

  • Your choice? MS or GS
  • Consultant to banker - did I make the right choice?
  • Help make a choice?
  • Transferring: Am I making the right choice?
  • Deloitte Cons Business Technology Analyst - A Good Choice?
  • stupid choice?
  • B-School Right Choice?
  • Is tranfering the right choice?
  • What's your beef of choice?
  • Is Public Finance Banking A Good Choice?

Forum Topics

  • New
  • Active
  • Rank
  • Comments
  • I'm gonna start off by talking about myself a little bit. I'm 16 years old and I'm a junior in a high school in the suburbs surrounding NYC (Long Island). I come from a working class family where we get by, but things can get pretty tight at times. I really have a strong interest...
    16 year old Hedge Fund Manager
  • I've been bombarded lately by people asking me if I feel fulfilled with my job in finance, or how it helps the general public... trying to compare what I "give back" to what a doctor provides to society. When my answer is "well, nothing really," they want to ask how I can...
    Do You Care About Your "Value Add" to Society?
  • Chicago Booth vs Michigan Ross? Is it even...
    Chicago vs Michigan
  • I am a first year analyst at a boutique in SF and attending my first industry conference next week with the MD. The MD is a panelist and will be busy before the event, during the "networking session'....So, I do not know any attendees and being my first event I am a little nervous - any...
    Industry Event.....
  • Hey Guys, I am going to be attending college this fall and I want to pursue a career in high finance. I have several questions and conerns and was hoping you guys could help me out and give me you input. 1. What is the future of finance, specifically S&T, going to be like with regulation such...
    Whats your take on Volcker
  • [quote=Project-Syndicate] At this time of year, at graduation ceremonies in America and elsewhere, those about to leave university often hear some final words of advice before receiving their diplomas. To those interested in pursuing careers in finance – or related careers in insurance,...
    ''My Speech to the Finance Graduates'' - Shiller
  • Someone asked me this earlier and it got me thinking. These days education seems so hard wired to graduate positions that it feels odd to even discuss education for education's sake. <strong>If degrees had no bearing on jobs and you had to get a degree, what would it...
    Dream Degree
  • I am a just recently graduated student and plan on getting in and out into the job market as fast as possible. I have been thinking and I was wondering if I should focus on a dual major of Finance & Economics and flying through school a few years or should I choose a dual degree...
    Dual Major vs. Dual Degree?
  • I'm 27 and have been working in a programming sense for the past 5 years. However, I have exactly no finance experience. My experience is with extremely massive data sets. Now normally it wouldn't be extremely difficult for someone with my background to work on Wall Street - working...
    Am I too old for not having relevant experience?
  • hey monkeys, What are the mainly used ratios (valuation and financial) for Gaming Lodging and Leisure companies? THanks for your...
    Gaming Lodging Leisure Industry Ratios
  • Hey monkeys, From talking with people in the finance industry (especially IB, my interest) about recruiting, a specific motivation seems really important (ex: why banking? why GS S+T) to landing either an SA or FT spot. The problem is the same people who tell me most people are sick of the...
    Why Your Industry?
  • I'm just like: <p><img height="200" src="http://i.imgur.com/buNmh.gif"...
    Whenever there is a Euro/G8/XYZ summit for “leaders” promising to get something done
  • Some internship postings are for "rising sophomores & rising juniors", yet they require "prior work experience". To me, that's just pure bizarre. It's almost like they expect you to have an IBD internship right out of high school. Don't these firms know...
    Need experience for job; Need job for experience
  • How do different firms and desks within firms trade/invest? What is their performance? How do they measure their performance/risk/consistency? What is it like to work for them. I'd like both comments about different industries from talking to people and actual experience (you should...
    How do banks, hedge funds, and prop shops trade/invest?
more

Highest Ranked Content

  • Week
  • Month
  • Year
  • All Time
Plus make sure to see my post <a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/how-i-got-a-770-on-the-gmat-with-minimal-effort-while-working-banking-hours%E2%80%A6">How I got a 770 on the GMAT with minimal effort while working banking...
phantombanker's GMAT Study Guide
A week or two ago there was an article written about how your weight might inversely effect you during the hiring process. During the conversation I dropped some personal information about me losing 130 (now 135 pounds). I was PM’d by somebody asking me to tell my story. Well I have some free...
How finance saved and gave me a life
Hey guys, it’s been some time since I posted regularly on this site. That’s what happens when you start working in finance; you don’t have any time. So why am I posting? It’s because I am seeing an injustice being done to a lot of military guys (and gals) who are discovering they want to...
To all Military who want to work in IB/PE/Consulting
<em>Mod (Andy) note: </em><a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/phantombankers-gmat-study-guide">Here is the link to his study guide</a> Background: I recently took the GMAT and scored a 770 on my first and only try. Long story short, I studied and took...
How I got a 770 on the GMAT with minimal effort while working banking hours…
There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth at the close on Friday over the perceived lack of performance in the Facebook IPO. The stock priced at $38, opened at $42.50 (after a few hiccups at the NASDORK), and closed at exactly $38 after an effort by the syndicate members akin to the Spartans at...
IPO Pricing 101
Hey Guys, Been using this site for a while now and figured it would be beneficial for me to give back a bit. For starters, I thought I would detail my experiences using linkedin and cold emails to land a summer offer. Coming from a semi-target undergrad b-school, I had my hands full....
How I used LinkedIn to get Interviews and Land Offers
<a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/what-does-the-labor-participation-rate-say-about-our-society">Back on the topic of what the composition of the labor force says about our society</a>, the New York Times recently put out this <a...
Grandpa And Grandma Are Taking Our Jobs
The Clear Admit Shop currently has <em>free b-school "snapshot" guides</em> <a href="http://clearadmit.shop.studylink.com/index.cfm?onsale=1">available for download here.</a> The guides aren't terribly comprehensive, but can serve as a...
Free B-School Guides!
There she is again: Diane Sawyer, the primary ABC evening news anchor, with another installment in their interminable series of reports on imports and employment in America. I could just strangle her. One week their (alleged) reporters go to people’s houses and look at everything the occupants...
Sawyer’s Syndrome: The ABCs of Trade and Employment
Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO Campus Representative Program
more

Recent Jobs

  • Private Equity Summer Intern
  • Junior Distressed Analyst
  • Senior Business Analyst
  • Derivatives Regulations Analyst
  • Portfolio Loan Account Analyst (Entry Level)
more

Poll

What's your favorite Finance-related movie?
American Psycho
19%
A Good Year
1%
Barbarians at the Gate
2%
Boiler Room
5%
Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room 
3%
Glengarry Glen Ross
1%
Harold and Kumar
6%
Inside Job
3%
Margin Call
16%
Other People's Money
0%
Pursuit of Happyness 
7%
Rogue Trader
1%
The Family Man
2%
The Game 
2%
Stocks and Blondes
1%
Trading Places
6%
Wall Street
24%
Wall Street 2
3%
Total votes: 459
  • 42 comments
  • Older polls

Silver Banana Rankings

  • Silver Banana Leaders
  • Soiled Monkeys
UserSilver Bananas
TNA848
Edmundo Braverman760
CompBanker747
happypantsmcgee654
IlliniProgrammer552
UFOinsider469
Nouveau Richie377
Midas Mulligan Magoo369
TheKing342
cphbravo96339
more

Top WSO Members

  • Total Bananas
  • Active Monkeys
UserBanana Points
TNA11678
Edmundo Braverman11075
WallStreetOasis.com10284
happypantsmcgee9352
UFOinsider8209
CompBanker7797
IlliniProgrammer7695
Midas Mulligan Magoo5250
monty095152
cphbravo964434
more

New groups

  • The Houston Contingent
  • Corporate Development (M&A)
  • Business Majors
  • Rounders
  • New York Yankees
  • Frustrated NYC Bankers
  • 2012 Houston FT
  • WSO Running Club
  • Venture Capitalist
  • Calgary Finance Industry
more

© 2006-2012 WallStreetOasis.com | All Rights ReservedAdvertise | About Us | Contact Us | FAQs | Site Map | Links

As Seen In

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sister Site

Syndicate content