Was wondering whether the offer of a deferred start was sent around to all FT08 analysts at UBS and at any other BBs?
I understand this type of program was used in 2001 - does anybody have any ideas on what the risks and upsides of this program are and how they played out in '01?
Thanks for any tips in advance.
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i'd def be interested in this as well.
2 years from now you will be wishing you did
Either you sling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot
were you offered a deferred start date at UBS? which office?
BUMP - I'm curious to know more as well.
UBS EMEA offered to London based analysts starting this July to defer to next year. This is depending on the group and supposedly only a few opportunities exist.
Any updates on the Graduate Deferral Program at UBS?
I'm wondering how they are proceeding with this initiative.
Thanks.
some offices of ubs have given the deferred analysts the option to start normally (guess business must have picked up).
did this happen to every office? are there still deferred ubs analysts out there?
This happened to some CS analysts. I'm pretty sure it wasn't an option. A bunch were told they had to start later or no offer
Pretty sure CS was given the option, but had to decide within a short time of notification.
There are still a good deal of UBS S&T analysts that are deferred.
are most of the ibd analysts hired back?
Were the deferred analysts guaranteed a job in 2010? UBS just posted more losses and said they're going to reduce headcount. If you're counting on that job I'd say start looking elsewhere...
Actually, the job cuts was announced way back earlier this year so not a big surprise at all. And yes, UBS is actually starting to recall U.S. analysts and did already recalled all Asia IBD analysts with option of letting you not come in till July 2010. So somehow, hiring is actually ramping up on certain levels. Most of the 7500 job cuts is accounted for already in which will affect the Wealth Mgmt division mostly.
so last yr's UBS base for 1st year analyst was 60k. i heard that this year's were 70k. will the deferred analysts get that 10k bump in base?
I doubt we will get the bump up.
Deferred from FT IBD - How to Improve My Application with a Free Year (Originally Posted: 06/02/2009)
I found out for sure today that I was deferred from a FT IBD position at an MM bank. Now I have a year and a small ($10k) stipend on top of my $10k signing bonus.
My main goal is to do something that will help my b-school application when I apply in 3-5 years. I'd like to do something abroad, but I don't have endless amounts of money, so it'd need to be paid (or at least provide some sort of housing stipend).
I'm thinking of teaching English in Asia (either China or South Korea) because it's easy to get a position doing that and I would be paid (not very much, but enough to cover expenses), plus I'd be able to experience the culture, and teaching would be enjoyable for me I think. I'm not sure how this would look on a business school application though. In particular, I would suspect that a b-school would rather see that I'm doing something related to business somehow rather than simply a low-paid job abroad. I would also consider volunteering in the U.S., but again I'd need some sort of stipend unless I live with my parents (which is not near any major city where there would be lots of solid volunteering opportunities).
So my question is: is teaching English in Asia going to look like a decent use of a free year? And if not, what other sorts of things could I do with a year that would really help my application without eating into my savings too much? I already took the GMAT and did well (750), so there is no need for me to spend time preparing for that or something.
I hate these posts. Why not do something that interests you, whatever that will be vs. what you think will make you look better...
When you assume you make an ass of you and me, not funny but true. This topic has been discussed several times in other postings, but the short answer is business schools look for people that are from a diverse backgrounds, but all have one thing in common, they are the best at what they are doing...
It's all relative isn't it?
To some, a year to do whatever you want is a gift. A real gift. To others, it seems to be a burden. Which is it for you?
Figure it out. Use your imagination. Trying to figure out what you should do with your life for one year isn't like comparison shopping for TVs at Best Buy where you can go down a checklist of features (i.e. everyone is different, has different personalities/talents/interests, and you never mentioned anything about yourself, so the only thing you can hope for is a laundry list of random things - teach surfing, go diving, write a book, shoot a documentary, do something no working stiff/office guy can do, etc.).
If you want to go teach and live in Asia, go for it.
Just don't be a wuss and make life choices for the purposes of manufacturing a b-school application.
Put it this way. Replace the words "my b-school application" with "please my parents" and you'll see what I (and the other poster) means about doing what interests you first and foremost rather than "what looks good to others". It's a different master, but same psychology. And once b-school is out of the way, it may be replaced with "my in-laws" or what looks good with "my neighbors" or "my colleagues" or whatever. And then your children one day will ask "daddy/mommy, why are you such a wuss?" to which you will answer "I do everything for you, why don't you appreciate?" and then the vicious cycle of wuss-dom gets passed down to another generation. It doesn't have to be that way, man. You can break that cycle, yes you can. (btw I'm just lightly teasing you here, but I hope you get my drift...)
Alex Chu
Alex, that is a great post!!
analyst 1 year deferral option...BB bank (Originally Posted: 04/06/2009)
What does everyone think of taking up an analyst 1 year deferral option?
Bank is compensating as well.
How will nonprofit work for a year play into business school admissions??
Search the archives. It has been talked about.
Was asked less than 24 hours ago
i'd be interested to know as well...i couldn't find another similar topic in archives...anyone got a link?
"Welcome to Credit Suisse. Please don't show up for a year."
the original thread on the topic was deleted
Yeah, ur right, CS is the BB that was being referenced. I know this for a fact. Pretty familiar with the situation. You get a year off, some stories i've heard include 20K comp.
is it worth it do you guys reckon? my concerns are 1) that if you don't accept, they'll rescind your offer anyways, or lay you off after a couple months if things don't get better; 2) if you do accept, things might get worse still and then you can still get your offer rescinded or laid off after you start; or they might delay another year. i was told this is a choice/option...but how much choice do i have here? i feel like i'm being coerced into accepting
any thoughts?
you're not being coerced--it's like a buyout. they want to see how many people take them up on it. if there are enough who do, then there won't be offers that are rescinded/layoffs. and if there aren't...
Is it safer to defer?
Would a bank rescind your offer if you choose to defer since they are paying you to not show up? It's like a way to pay you off?
Yeah CS just over-hired. My friend was offered $40K to defer for a year.
how the hell did CS overhire? they hardly gave out any FT offers to the intern class last summer...
I probably would take it but what the hell would I do with $20k?
I'm pretty sure these guys are getting $40k. I'd take it.
$40k after tax prob a little over $20k.
yeah sure, 1 yr to do wahtever you want is great, but it's at the cost of gaining valuable work experience. if you defer and things get worse in the next year, your offer may get rescinded or you can still get laid off. and if you try to find another job, what's gonna distinguish you from any other eager college grads? whereas if you've had at least a couple months experience, that'll still help when finding another job.
I wish I had this option; I might not have taken it, but getting paid to take a vacation is not a bad gig, especially with a good job set up right after- it's like the reverse of grad school.
If I were to take the deferral what would happen to my relocation bonus? Have you guys asked about that at all? I was under the impression that we would get our 10k sometime in April.
Credit Suisse is certainly very generous to offer something like this when they could have just let the heads roll..
if you take this option, relocation bonus will be paid out april 2010.
if you don't take this option...
Yes it is CS, yes it is $40K to do anything, to be paid out in 2 lump sums now and in the fall just as FT recruiting starts. I'm strongly considering taking this. HR told me it would be "taxed as a bonus."
Does that mean there's a flat tax of 28%? Or is it effectively 50%?
Regardless, I'm sure it's enough money to go be a beach bum in Indonesia for a year...
Who cares what the tax withholding is? You will get back whatever you overpaid when you do your 09 taxes in February. And since you will not start working till next July, you will need money next year so you are not going to spend all 40K (minus taxes) by the end of this year anyway.
I never understood why companies like CS would want to pay someone 40K to sit at home when they can pay them 60K to work, even if that means pushing a broom.
It costs more than just the salary to keep someone around the office. You need room for them, you need to give them benefits, you need to worry about the effect they could have on morale if they're constantly bitching, you need to worry about liability. It is definitely not worth it.
i wish i had this option. 40k for free to travel the world, and know that you have a job lined up after. if only life could be so good...
So, what happens if you decide not to return the following year? Eg. if you use the money to start a business and actually make some decent money.
I believe the deadline has passed. Did you guys take it?
Consider training, meal allowances, infrastructure, etc.
Also consider the goodwill that CS is generating through this - sure gives the impression that the firm takes care of its people.
are you allowed to find another paid job during this one year deferral time?
UBS 2009 Graduate Deferral Program (Originally Posted: 05/02/2009)
I am a starting analyst in UBS, and got my start date deferred by one year to july 2010. They are calling this the 2009 Graduate Deferral Program? Did other UBS joinng grads get this too. I heard UBS implemented this in 2001 and 2008 as well, but this year way much more people got affected? Does anyone know if UBS usually honor those deferred offers?
that's terrible.
what are you planning to do over the next year? is UBS going to help you out in some way?
i know that one-year deferrals are very common in law firms nowadays, but they are giving the deferred lawyers a modest salary to live on despite their absence.
basically they are deferring everyone in the incoming class
http://dealbreaker.com/2009/05/ubs-encouraging-incoming-class.php
they're compensating us around 15k fr defer.
But the thing is will they rescind after this??
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/is-ubs-rescinding-offers-now
^^See page 3
Yea that sucks bro. I knew it was coming. If anything it sucks more for the SA class this year, who will have a hard time getting FT.
That sucks man, couldn't believe when I heard that news Friday. With regards to the incoming SA's, rescinging offers next year and next year hiring in general...I can't help but think this is nothing more than a backhanded way to reduce the size of the incoming class w/o actually pulling offers. Realistically, despite the job market still being terrible, I can't imagine too many of the people with 1yr deferal are just going to sit and wait. Most if not all will look for another job, and probably a good amount of them will be successful (I mean, they did get an offer from UBS). I'd like to think that in all likelihood, the natural attrition that will occur from this should allow them to uphold defered offers come next spring/summer as well as hopefully be able to extend some offers to this years interns.
Look on the bright side: you have the option to do whatever you want for a year, and still start the structured 2 yr analyst gig. You could go have a blast, or you could do something for your B-School app. Doing a year of hippie volunteering stuff would really help you stand out from the other IB kids when you apply for B-School down the road.
anyone still in this deferral program? i heard that some offices hired back a few of the deferred analysts. Not sure if everyone has been hired back, esp in nyc
for those of you who are still, what have you guys been doing with the year off? still going back to ubs or have you found other opportunities?
I am curious to know as well which offices have been calling back the deferred analysts back already. From what I know the next earliest UBS deferred start is Feb 2010. Have anyone gotten in touch with HR yet?
Isn't this post a little bit late? Meaning, didn't the class of 2009 know about the deferral in May/June if they were supposed to start in July 09? I don't get it.
Oh my bad, I just noticed the posting dates.
i've heard that all the asian analysts were recalled and most trained in nyc this past month and started work already.
does this mean that there are still deferred analysts in the U.S. and Europe?
Well as far as I know, all of the deferred analysts on the list (about 70 or so) that was sent out fro ny/stamford are still deferred till next year. So I don't know if they are going to recall U.S. analysts anytime earlier.
are you guys deferred until Feb or July of next year? and is this IBD or S&T?
HR contacted the equity s&t's and had a few positions that needed to be filled. So some analysts are now on the desks who were initially deferred. Not sure about the exact number but less than ten total.
UBS Feb Deferred (Originally Posted: 12/18/2009)
To all those out there who were deferred from the July start to the upcoming Feb 2010 start. Did the HR contact you yet with a confirmed start date set in stone?
Curious to know which FO divisions are actually affected by this Feb deferal program at UBS? Analysts only, or Associate only or both?
Mostly 2009 analyst clas was deferred. IBD deferred analysts are starting in Feb. Alot of S&T and other div is starting in July 2010
kblue, do you know if deferred analysts will get preference over new hires and what the chances of them honoring the deferrments?
are UBS sa applications up yet?
I find the fact that they are deferring odd, I thought UBS was desperate to add bodies...
They are honoring their deferments. I guess most you guys are only juniors, therefore didn't hear about the 09 deferment by UBS, and the optional one implemented by CS. UBS implemented optional deferment back in 08. And yes UBS SA applications are up a few weeks ago. But UBS is ramping up its hiring slowly, so all still looks good.
I know there are deferred people on WSO from UBS, have you all received the confirms from HR yet?
UBS also recently offered the deferred FICC S&T class an option to move their start date up from July 2010 to Jan 2010.
yea it was an option for ibd analysts to move fwd deferred start dates as well. some decided to start right away early and some decided to wait till july 2010 to start with the rest. reasons for not starting early: want to travel, want to go thru training before starting FT, don't want to work for 1/2 yr without a bonus since bonus (for 1 year) won't be paid till july 2011
the new hired 2010 analysts at ubs are getting 70/10 for compensation. the deferred analysts from 09's contracts stated 60/10. will that be upped to 70/10 since they are starting in 2010 now instead of 2009?
kind of weird to have 1/2 of the analysts be paid 60 and the other half be paid 70.
Yes, all contracts have been revised to 70/10 plus bonus.
Yeah, I am waiting it out to July 2010. However, since we start in July 2010, we don't qualify for yr end bonus in 2010. But if you take the early start in Jan, you will get the 2010 bonus. But then again, you get six more months of freedom. As to training, either way you would still have to go through training in July.
--
I decided to start early (Jan 2010) because I want a full-year bonus my first year and I have done plenty of traveling/partying around the world in the past 12 months. I'm ready to get the career going.
Hey trade_nrg: which group do you belong to?
FICC S&T
Yeah. I expected you were. Cool guess I will see you in July.
Good luck guys!
So, what happened?
Credit Suisse FT deferral (Originally Posted: 04/06/2009)
Hey, anyone know about this? Is it a bad sign for the CS summer program?
You couldn't read the thread RIGHT BELOW YOU?
Don't be a jackass. I was looking for specifics and an answer to a separate question.
But it's not a separate question...
I think it is, it looks like the kid is a summer and he is worried that FT class of 2009 kids joining a year late would impact the SA to FT conversion rate this summer. I would be asking the same question if I were in his position.
Ahh, good point. Kid should have chosen a good point. Honestly, it probably is a bad sign, but what are you going to do about it now? Just work your butt off like you presumably would have anyway
I'd be worried about it because how many SA's will CS hire if a ton of full-time analysts are already signed up to come back next year?
I think the summers in the regional offices with SA class sizes in the 5-10 range will be fucked.
you're right, this all leads to some significant crowding-out. in all honesty, you just have to try your best during the summer and hope for the best. maybe you can network w/ other banks while you're at it, but you may have similar problems elsewhere
best of luck. at least you have a significantly better starting point than a lot of people right now.
Thanks folks. I'm troubled about the possibility for crowding out. Anyone know how widespread the deferrals are/where they are hitting? Also, on the extreme end, might this at all indicate an increased likelihood of offers being rescinded at the SA level?
Very unlikely they'll rescind your SA offer--banks rarely do that. But yeah, will likely make SA-->FT conversion rates drop.
I use to work on the Bond Desk @ CSFB. I can ask one of the guys if he heard anything. I know the Associates are doing Trading Assistant/Middle Office type work on the desk rather than learning deal structures.
Banks right now are long talent, short work.
Yeah the offer rate is probably going to drop significantly.
If you're an SA, just work your butt off and hope for the best.
The offer rate will likely drop, like everywhere else, but they plan on significantly scaling back FT OCR and trying to fill out the FT classes with mostly summers. Given that they've reduce the SA class by about 1/3 from the 2008 SA class, that will help mitigate things.
If you have an SA offer at any bank right now you are going to be in better shape than 95% of your peers. Make the most of it.
UBS Forced Deferral program to Feb. 1, 2010? (Originally Posted: 05/06/2009)
If you, or someone you know was forced to defer their 2009 Full-Time IBD offer with UBS until February 1, 2010, what groups and what percentage of groups are you hearing got deferred?
I heard that close to 70% of analysts are getting deferred. Most come from the generalist pools. Also, most ex-summer analysts will get to start in September.
They are not deferring the entire class, and they are keeping top-talent only. Let's just hope they don't recind those offers...
As I understand it, 100% of the full-time class got "deferred"...it's just that most are deferred until September 15, and some are deferred until February 1, 2010...
I am trying to figure out what groups have analysts being deferred until February 1, 2010...and what groups are having most, if not all, of their analysts starting in September...
Also, what does the "keeping top talent only" mean? Are you saying they will cut, say, the bottom 25% of the analysts after they start?
You may be right, but I heard a portion of the class is starting in September (think about it, 2nd and 3rd years leave to B-school), and the rest in Feb with a 15k stipend.
I was referring to the top talent starting in September, not necessarily because they are top, but because they are in a group (e.g: healhcare) that is doing well and they were a Summer Analyst as well.
From what I hear, everyone in the generalist pool got deferred, and most of those who did not intern the summer before.
This is pure speculation, but I think they will recind 20-40% of the offers befor 2011. Good luck, I am sure you are independently qualified, if shit were to happen
Do you mean, after analysts have already started, that they will fire 20-40% of the class? Or do you mean straight-up pulling offers back before they even start?
Well IBD isn't as affected as S&T or Ops or IT or Finance where everyone got deferred to July 2010
Equity Research guys received no deferral.
According to HR UBS has never rescinded a FT offer from its grads before. Let's hope this will not be their first then.
Will they even need to rescind? Have to wonder how many they will lose just over the course of the next 9-12 months in the intermediate.
many people I figure will look for other jobs, and if get a better one then will not go back to UBS. Also, considering that UBS is firing another 9500 employees...with 1000 of them in the US, they should have enough seats left for us grads who do decide to go back.
Given UBS doesn't get chase out of the US by the IRS!!!!
i am sure that there will be spots for you, but the question becomes where? and what exactly will you be doing? will some go to MO/BO? most likely.
Research won't get deferred - there's fairly consistent work flow in research regardless of the deal-making environment.
Not saying that its a reverse Beta industry, just that its less volatile in terms of the revenue it produces
I would find it extremely hard to believe that UBS would even consider putting corporate finance IBD division full-timers in the BO/MO.
Anyone else disagree?
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