Hi guys. I'm a freshman at a semi-target school right now and am extremely interested on careers in finance, particularly Hedge Funds. However, I am aware that getting a job straight out of UG at a semi-target is not an easy feat. Do you guys think it is essential to obtain an MBA in today's environment?
Thanks.
Not essential. If you follow the right career trajectory you don't need one. If you're coming out of something like corporate development then you're going to need one to get an edge in recruiting, but doing something traditional like UG -> IBD -> HF even at a semi-target will be good enough and nobody cares if you have an MBA or not.
An MBA just makes you more competitive. What role do you want to do anyway? There's a big difference between investor relations/marketing and front office work with the investment strategies. For the latter, if you want a realistic chance to get a good gig at a large AUM fund then an MBA is important... not essential but significant nevertheless.
10B AUM under management is substantial imo.
Did the people you meet work with the portfolio managers who made the investing decisions? I know someone who works in Investor Relations and she has an MBA (non-Ivy) but her subordinates do not.
You can go to the career site of various funds, including Paulson & Co. Some will suggest that a masters degree is preferred. At SAC I see a research analyst position that requires a B.A... curious if a MBA would be required for an associate level position. Again, an MBA or advanced degree is not required... it just makes you more competitive. Also, if you want to do any form of quantitative trading then you may even be required to have a PH D at some funds (e.g. Renaissance).
Very few hedge funds recruit undergrads, and the ones that do are the big quant shops like de shaw, citadel, AQR, two sigma.
For someone like yourself, try to get a S&T job at a BB or banking BB and then leverage that to get into hedge funds after 2-3 years. S&T in fixed income, currencies, commodities, will help you get into a macro hedge fund while working at a good banking group can get you into long-short equity, event-driven, or multistrategy funds in general.
MBA derail my HF career? (Originally Posted: 04/24/2013)
I recently took a job as #2 @ a new HF(~40MM AUM) that has been performing relatively well but I would like to eventually get an MBA. Would an MBA derail my hedge fund career? I know many of you will ask why an MBA if I'm already in HF. Because if this fund doesn't pan out, I want to be able to have a solid ability to jump to another fund or start my own. I think that an MBA and/or experience at a larger fund (which could be made possible via an MBA?) would help. Said another way, if my current fund turns out to be pedestrian, which would help me most in finding the next job: 3-5 years small HF experience, or 2-3 years small HF experience + MBA?
How many years out of college are you? Also, are you in either NYC or Chicago?
I would say if you plan to jump to a bigger HF you should get an MBA. But if you'd rather stay where you are now then I wouldn't bother.
I'm 2 years out and in Texas.
If you're already #2 in a small hedge fund and it is performing relatively well, it sounds like a winning position to me. I'd let the winner roll i/o take profit and open another position (leaving for MBA and the "greater good of uncertainty") if I were you.
I've worked for a sub-$100m AUM HF -- there are a lot of them out there and I don't think you get much credit when you are looking for another job. PMs know that there are lots of small shops which aren't very good, so it doesn't help your resume move to the top of the pile.
I will also add, as I have opined on other threads, that small HF managers always under estimate how difficult it will be to grow AUMs. So when I worked for the small HF, I had dreams of the fund growing rapidly along with our good performance. The performance was there, but the AUMs didn't move.
All that being said, MBA adds very little value unless you go to a top program known for investing. I doubt anything below a top 3 or 5 school would help you.
So learn as much as you can and use your current position to make connections with other analysts/PMs at other funds and keep in touch with headhunters. That would be the more likely route to make a move when the time comes rather than partying for 2 years and getting a useless degree.
What do you consider as the top MBA programs for investing? Columbia (Heilbrunn), Booth, Wharton?
Thanks for the input!
Get the GMAT out of the way. Then ride this new fund and see where it goes. Obviously always have your updated résumé out there and if something interesting comes along take it. If not build experience where you are. Reevaluate in a couple years. Then all you need to do is the paper work and MBA essays. In the meantime, make sure your life is interesting and you can tell a story in your essays that will catch the eyes of top mba admissions folks. Honestly that's what often separates those rejected from those accepted. Be flexible by keeping options open and getting passed the tedious crap like the GMAT.
Is it necessary to go for an MBA if someone is employed in a very prestigious Private Equity/ Hedge fund firm? (Originally Posted: 08/15/2011)
I am getting conflicting advice on this issue and I looking for additional input. Please discuss pros and cons. Thanks
^ An MBA is just an asset that makes you more competitive to get your foot in the door at one of these funds. Of course if you know the COO of a $8B fund then you may not need an MBA.
If you already have the job that you want, why would you quit to do an MBA? Your question isn't clear enough. Is it the case that you want to stay with your very prestigious PE / HF firm? If so, do they require you to have a prestigious MBA to move up? If you are looking to move to a different firm, are you concerned that you can't lateral without the MBA?
Clarify plz.
probably not (depending on what youre doing).
This friend is already employed at one of the very prestigious company. The job pays very well more than $$$$$$$ for the gig. Most people will kill for this kind of job opportunity. He loves the job. Other equally prestigious firms have hinted him that whenever he is bored, he can switch the jobs any time he wish to do so.
Before starting this job, he got into one of the top five MBA programs. However, some very well known mentors are saying that it is a waste of time to go to 2+2 program. These people are some of the very famous people. However, others whose opinion is equally important and they are also famous in their own ways disagree with this statement. They think MBA is a must. Hence the confusion.
Ok, lets get this straight.
1) Your friend got into a 2+2 program ... gee, I wonder what top-5 MBA program that is. That means your friend just graduated from college in the last year or two.
2) Your friend is at a top firm where he loves his job and makes a 7-figure salary.
Those two statements appear to be at odds with each other. Anybody who's 24 years old and makes a 7-figure salary would never be friends with you.
Also, there are many reasons to go to HSW - it's a life experience and will always be on your resume and your bio.
Chew on this flawed analogy: A 17-year old kid is the son of a multi-billion dollar family owned business. His father pays for his every desire and he knows he's next in line to get the business no matter what. He's also earned admission at Harvard College. Is it "necessary" for him to go to college? No, of course not. Should he? Probably.
Sorry double post...
If your "friend" is getting looks from other prestigious PE shops while doing well at his own, it's very likely your "friend" can get promoted without doing the 2 year MBA program.
A lot of shops have a 2-year contract and you're 'encouraged' to do your MBA and people move around from one top shop to another, or sometimes if they're fed up with PE, do their own thing. But if you want to stay in PE and you have the option of staying or lateraling w/o it, why pay $150-200K for 2 yrs when you could be making that amount and more while potentially getting promoted?
MBA is really for... - a 1-time "play again" card - to make a career switch - 2-year "vacation" for those that slaved their lives - Network expansion - when you're "encouraged"/forced to do it by certain firms
If you're already where you want to be and not forced out, then stay put. The "additional networks" you build in b-school are really subjective for each person, and hard to define whether it's worth the huge opportunity cost of going to school
troll fail
Yeah, probably, I'm too nice/naive for this board
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sdelle
Look at HBS 2+2 program, then look at the attached profile.
There are many kids who are in PE + HBS 2+2
Redninja:
Person can graduate from Harvard college in 2010, and does 2 years work at PE firm before heading into HBS 2+2 program where he was admitted you moron.
x
Yes you are right on that it should have been $$$$$$ (sorry fro typo).
Redninja:
You are full of shit, you have no idea who I am.
I gave you a link for an example. Besides Sangu there are multiple kids who are in similar position who have gone to Ivy, and PE and have got into MBA program. For your information some of these kids do not come with silver spoon in their mouth. They got there without having a connection or money.
People like Jan Sramek thinks that MBA is not worth it. Jan did not come from a rich background. And more and more my friend is thinking along this line.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jansramek
How many saw the recent stock market downturn. They do not teach this investing stuff at MBA.
MBA is really for... - a 1-time "play again" card - to make a career switch - 2-year "vacation" for those that slaved their lives - Network expansion - when you're "encouraged"/forced to do it by certain firms
Kanon thanks for your input.
artmonkey, redninja goes to HBS. I think if you genuinely want to learn about the merits of an elite MBA, he is probably the best person here to ask. I think you need to calm down with the hatorade.
Manbearpig:
Yes Indeed I need to chill out. Sorry today was a tough day and I need to clear my head.
Redninja:
I owe you an apology.
.
Redninja:
Sorry sometime $$$$$ sign can cloud my vision.
Thanks for your explanation. I never thought this way. When I am thinking about your explanantion, it is making a lot of sense. Thanks bud :)
manbearpig:
Thanks for pointing out my mistake and making me think. I thank you again by making sure I get relevant info and not cloud my head.
redninja - loved your post (gave an SB). I definitely oversimplified with my reasonings for an MBA. I obviously was looking at it from a mostly financial perspective and also gave reasons based on if a PE guy loved his job and doesn't plan to do anything else. Definitely mba can a lot of intangible, immeasurable benefits and experiences, but only if the person really allows him or herself to be immersed in it, rather than zone out or just mail it in.
I'm actually considering an mba myself... but for me, it's more of a career-change move, at least that's the practical reason. I would love to go back to school and just meet new people and learn again... but if I can get to where I am without an MBA, I would be tempted to forgo it because of the immense effort to go through applications, the uncertainty of getting to certain schools, and just not having all the funds and risk having debt and graduating in a bad market.
Just curious - would you mind sharing your background? I personally don't think I can make it into HBS (not unique enough profile wise) but maybe Columbia if I'm lucky or Booth.
.
Thanks redninja, would really like to hear more - I'll send PM sometime tonight/Thurs after work.
mba needed to get job at hf? (Originally Posted: 03/02/2011)
I'm sure this has been discussed, but I could not find any threads.
So do you need an MBA to get into a reputable hedge fund? My understanding was always no, but I could be wrong. Let's say I'm finishing my analyst stint (Tech M&A), I can still work my way through the ranks at a HF without having an MBA correct? (For ex., Research Analyst --> PM --> Senior PM --> CIO/FM)
Unlike PE, where if you work at a mega-fund you need to go back to get your MBA to get VP level and up...?
for hedge funds that are less deal/restructuring/distressed etc oriented an MBA is going to have little impact. It is a lot more common to see CFA or an advanced engineering/math/stat degree or simply just undergrad
At most hedge funds, an MSF, MFE, or CFA is going to be a lot more helpful than an MBA. An MBA never hurts, but in most hedge funds it does not necessarily help very much.
An MBA is rarely a prerequisite for any buy side investing job. That said, acronym credentials (MBA, CFA, etc.) can help you get your foot in the door.
Once you are in, though, your career path will generally follow your ability to generate alpha.
A lot of top hedge funds and investment management firms recruit at the top MBA programs, providing students with access that may not be available otherwise. For example, Citadel, SAC, soros, viking, tudor, etc., recruit at wharton and booth. Of course those jobs are hard to get, but you're not going to get there by just having a CFA. An MBA from an elite school goes a long way.
Agree with JQ. Smart hungry people are able to get HF jobs. The ones that keep them / advance, provide return for clients.
I was speaking to a recruiter last week and she was actually saying some funds discount candidates with the MBA because if they were truly interested in investing, they would have kept on working/not gone back to B-School.
Any truth to this?
There are literally thousands of hedge funds in the world, and for the most part they're run by eccentric, opinionated people who think their way of doing things is the only way that could possibly be right.
Are there funds that don't like MBAs? Yes. Are there funds that require MBAs? Yes. Are there funds that prefer CFAs? Yes. Are there some funds that like to see either a CFA or MBA but will consider someone with neither? Yes.
That said, I have to laugh at a statement like "if you truly wanted to be an investor you wouldn't have gone to grad school." Graham and Dodd were professors at Columbia Business school. Lots great investors went to business school, some didn't start working in finance till after their MBA. Kind of makes me wonder how open-minded the manager is in looking at their portfolio.
This recruiter is a moron. A person with an MBA from an elite school and solid work experience would be highly coveted.
Brady, my friends in quant trading at Citadel say they don't hire MBAs for trading roles. Getco certainly doesn't.
An MBA probably won't hurt you in most cases, but it is not nearly as helpful as an MFE, CFA, or MSF and relevant experience- which you happen to have. They're helpful degrees, but forking over $140K to HBS or Booth is not some silver bullet which solves all problems. There are much cheaper and more effective ways to get the recruiting options you want.
Of course an MBA is not helpful for quant trading. I'm talking about the non-quant hedge funds, such as long/short, event-driven, deep value, merger arb, macro, etc. A lot of those top funds do actively recruit at top business schools. Those guys are highly coveted.
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