I usually am on the Consulting forum given what I do, but have visited the bullpen a lot more off late (let's face it, lot more entertaining and I'm sick of responding to threads asking about how to best do case prep).
One common theme emerging among people's comments is that Asian cities like HK and Singapore are decidedly lower tier places to start your career in the big leagues as an i-banker or a S&T person, etc. Now I know NY is the financial capital of the world, very busy, everyone's there, etc etc, but I find it amusing that Asia is (subtly, I might add) looked down upon when:
1) You make WAY more money thanks to the 10-12% tax rate and decent bonuses (neither of which exist in NY off late)
2) You're in the thick of things in HK with China next door, and in Singapore with Indonesia (palm oil, bitches) next door. Shitloads of fund-raising, IPOs, M&As, etc. Maybe not large in scale, but v often in frequency.
3) You're in a rapidly expanding part of the world where chances to grow and gain exposure are far greater than in NY/London.
4) Point 1), again.
Thoughts? I'm not in I-Banking so maybe I'm missing some obvious points.
It's because most people on this site think of the Hollywood version of Wall St, with NYC clubs and Patrick Bateman. In the industry I don't think anyone looks down on it. I know guys in HK killing it right now. Shit, even the summer analysts live like kings in HK
Yea - The US and UK banking industries are so saturated but HK and China are still heating up and have a lot of room for growth. It'll take a while before Chinese bankers will have fanboys on this website, but going to Asia just to set yourself up there early on is not a bad choice at all.
In fact, most people don't realize that HK and China are closing the party doors early before things get really loud. If you have any real interest in capitalizing the opportunities in Asia, you better get over there soon.
Bottom line: It's easier to move from NY to HK than it is the other way around.
This is wrong but for some reason is the overall consensus on this forum
I guess my point is - why would anyone want to move to NY when they're killing it in HK! PE is on the up as well, hedge funds are gaining prominence, and anyway most of the world wants to do business in Asia. I'm very interested to see HK's future relative to NY/Lon's...it definitely appears to be on the up and up. And as mentioned in the OP, Singapore too cannot be discounted as a great place to start your career as an investment banker.
To each his/her own I guess
Personally, seeing how I am from SE Asia, Singapore and Hong Kong are always better than NYC/London. I especially adore Singapore, the people are incredibly nice, the city is clean, there are a lot of activities and you can just travel to many exotic places (Thailand, M'sia, Indonesia, Vietnam...) in like 2 hours. They are getting stricter about foreign workers so that worries me a bit, but overall, as you said before, why move to NY if you're killing it in HK/Singapore :)
Forget about HK, if you aren't there now or trying to land a job in the near future. When Peter Tang and Jimmy Li speak English as well as you do, but were brought up in China, you know the gig is up.
Singapore, though... Lots of room to grow yet, methinks. SEA is where China was maybe a decade or two ago.
Would love to transfer from NYC to HK....better city and better work.
But the fact is, without fluent Mandarin (or other Asian language) skills and permanent residency, it’s a hard sell to employers.
London is the financial capital of the world, not New York.
@ a BB in HK here and guess i can shed some light:
1: Pay is way more, especially with housing stipend, lower taxes (even if you are a US citizen as first 90k is tax exempt), and dinner allowance is extremely generous
2: Much more client interaction - trips to Shanghai, Beijing, Xiamen, Taiwan, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia happen on a bi-weekly basis if you are on any live deals (because 95% of the deals are not with HK-based conglomerates) - business class + 4Seasons / Mandarin Oriental are standard
3: Insane amount of top-tier PEs recruiting - first years start getting calls half-way into the first year and start getting poached immediately
BUT BUT BUT - here's the kicker -
Number of exit opportunities available scales exponentially with your Chinese ability
What I have found is if you are anything other than PRC NATIVE Chinese level - you can more or less kiss those exit opps goodbye. Speaking cantonese does not cut it either, and Taiwanese doesn't help much. There are a lot of kids running around here that are native speakers nowadays...
But hey - if you do speak native Chinese, Ivy-league educated, bulge-bracket banking ticket - KKR / Carlyle / Bain / TPG will fight for you. Sit back and enjoy the popcorn.
Oh and I should add that it's very very hard even for Chinese-Americans (born in China), with strong spoken chinese but mediocre written / reading to break into the PE side of things as well. This party is more or less over for non-natives...
Ibhopeful: You Chinese, brah?
@ibhopeful532 - interesting. I knew that without Mandarin you might struggle at a BB but still be fine, but hadn't thought of the exit options side. What do you know about the finance sector in Singapore, btw? I presume it's much easier to survive with just english there?
And are PE firms, HFs pretty solid in HK, in your opinion??
Is Mandarin fluency as important in Singapore?
I think most people on this forum are from the U.S. so naturally they prefer NY and London.
Mandarin fluency isn't. I'd argue knowing Bahasa would be a significant advantage in SG just coz of all the Indo (and some Malaysian) deals around. But yeah you can definitely live without Mandarin.
It's not surprising most people on WSO would be keen on NY/Lon, just I got the distinct impression that a lot of people considered HK as a Tier 2 I-Banking destintion, which I'd argue it clearly isn't :)
I mean its just perception, I bet most HKers and Singaporeans believe the opposite.
Mandarin fluency isn't. I'd argue knowing Bahasa would be a significant advantage in SG just coz of all the Indo (and some Malaysian) deals around. But yeah you can definitely live without Mandarin.
It's not surprising most people on WSO would be keen on NY/Lon, just I got the distinct impression that a lot of people considered HK as a Tier 2 I-Banking destination, which I'd argue it clearly isn't :)
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