Should I transfer (California schools?)
I'm concerned about the opportunities that my current school, University of Kansas, offers me in terms of breaking in to IB at a BB.
I'm a current sophomore with a 3.4, and should have a 3.6 at the end of spring. My first semester as a freshman was only a 2.8 since I was pledging and because my interest in finance/school didn't hit me until spring semester.
I did poorly in high school mainly because I didn't see the big picture and because I was enlisted in the Marine Corps. Ended up tearing my shoulders in multiple places my senior year playing football and applied to the few colleges that would accept me. (A point I emphasize in the "Sell your story" part of interviews). I'm by no mean unintelligent, my sister attends and ivy league and my father is a genius, I just had the whole teenage "I don't care attitude".
Anyway, I interned at a small wealth management firm in LA last summer and have been networking my ass off for the past month; reaching out to alums (the few that there are), using my old boss, cold emailing ect. I'm looking at a 4.0 this semester and will be continuing this trend.
I want to transfer some semi-target, preferably in CA for financial reasons as out-out-state tuition is a bitch. 2 seniors in my fraternity got FT in IB at Citi last year, so I know it's not impossible here.
I've looked at the profiles of a lot of people in IB and other fields in the LA area and the majority have attended CA schools. I would prefer NY but a school in CA would have the same chances of getting into NY along with increased networking to the LA area.
Advice? Schools I should look into? Really struggling with this guys.
If you can get into Berkeley or Stanford sure. They place into every BB on the west coast and even some groups in the East Coast.
I know people from Cal who work at BAML Lev Fin, JP Morgan M&A, CS Tech, MS FIG, PWP; all in NY.
It's not easy, but it's done every year.
UCLA, USC, and Claremont Mckenna are the only other schools that consistently send kids into banking in California, but nowhere near as much as the first two and an even less amount to NY.
I live in CA and am familiar with with the schools listed as well as their placement --
The best school on the West Coast is Stanford, and it is a strong target for all locations (NY, SF, LA, ect.) This is your ideal choice. However, their transfer rate is very low to nil.
Berkeley comes at a second (excluding Cal Tech for obvious reasons), and it has a high transfer rate, but do keep in mind that if you transfer there, you cannot transfer into their Haas School of Business, where FT FO banking positions are typically awarded to. Furthermore, the kids who usually do get into banking are in one of the three business fraternities because their alumni are the ones doing OCR interviews, and those fraternities are INSANE to get into. The pledging process will kill you, plus competition will be greater than anything you have ever experienced because 1) there are so many Asians at Berkeley, 2) you'll be competing against the best of those Asians for those spots, and 3) you're coming from a much less competitive school and barely pulling a 3.6, whereas these banking kids all have higher GPAs at a more competitive school. You will also be disadvantaged because recruiting typically occurs freshman year spring or sophomore year, and junior recruits are less typical. Your next best option, then, is a major in Economics, which is not as valued because those kids are viewed as Haas rejects. Another route into banking is through a major in EECS or IEOR or some other form of engineering, but those are the most intense majors at Cal and I don't think transfers can major in them.
UCLA and USC are jokes, and typically send few kids to banking. However, they are still worth a shot as both have high transfer rates. The Trojan network is huge in SoCal, but I personally believe the network is more about quantity than quality. Not sure about CMC, but it's very small and perhaps not as well connected (plus, it probably has a low transfer rate).
Taking into account your grades, you might be competitive for USC/UCLA and possibly Berkeley. It's a big might. All three have high transfer rates, especially LA/Cal, but they typically take CC grads who have 4.0's or near that. USC/UCLA do not place well into banking. Berkeley places decently depending on whether you're in Haas and/or in a business fraternity. However, do keep in mind that it's the same ~25-35 people getting all first round the interviews for the BBs, and everyone else is getting fucked over.
Best bet for now is to network hard, continue getting a 4.0, and send in your transfer applications. Come back with the results in a few months and we'll work on it from there. IMO the marginal benefit of transferring just isn't worth it, plus you'd have to acclimate to a whole new environment. I'd just stay and work hard. Sorry man, it's hard to fix things if you fuck up early.
This kid doesnt know what the hell he's talking about^. 1/3rd of Haas kids are transfers, so yes you can transfer in.
True there are a good amount of Asians, but there are also a good amount of Asians that don't have the social competency to make it in banking.
"recruiting typically occurs freshman year spring or sophomore year, and junior recruits are less typical" WTF are you talking about, BB don't give out freshmen or sophomore IB internships... Recruiting starts junior year for SA, around December-February. For full time it starts earlier.
True business frat kids probably place about a little less than half of IB analysts, but thats mostly because they have been groomed to be bankers and have a good network. But those frats are not "insane" to get into.
Berkeley places very well on the West Coast and places a handfull on the East Coast every year
I was talking about on a case-by-case basis. Yes, you can transfer into Haas assuming you meet the requirements, which are very strict. Either you have all the pre-reqs or your application gets tossed. Most of the Haas transfers are from California CC's. And these kids mostly have higher GPA's then the OP. So while it's not impossible for OP to transfer in, it's improbable.
http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/Undergrad/class_profile.html
And I'm talking about recruiting for the business fraternities, sorry for the confusion.
"Well" is a subjective term. Cal places decently. Most Haas kids end up in accounting anyway, and again it's mostly the same kids getting all the banking interviews.
OK, gotta clear a couple things up.
UCLA sends 20+ kids a year into banking. Seriously. Can't speak for USC as a whole, but I know they have a really strong finance club and I worked with a guy in Morgan Stanley LA M&A as a sophomore who's going to BCG now. They're great schools. If I was looking at UCLA vs. Berkeley, it's a bit of a toss-up. Big fish in smaller pond, vs smaller fish in bigger pond. 3. Transfers can major in IEOR and EECs. 100%. 4. Being "Haas" doesn't real make as significant a difference for banking interviews as having solid work experience and connections. Working at a wealth management firm is excellent for a freshman. Econ major with great work experience>Haas major without it, every single time. 5. Business fraternities at Cal provide a solid network, but they're a bit overhyped. Go check out their websites. The infamous "DSP" has great placement, but the rest have juniors going to Stifel and half in accounting every year. If you can network on your own, it shouldn't be a huge problem. It's absolutely a good idea to join, but discouraging someone from applying to Berkeley because of the competitiveness of the business fraternities is a little silly. I mean, OP could just JOIN if he got in. There's a bit of selection bias which makes them look better than they are, since most people who want to do banking end up joining a biz frat anyway. Know a chick who isn't in one who worked at Houlihan as a sophomore. If you're good, you can still crush recruiting. 6. 25-30 people do get all the interviews, yeah. Competition is fierce, can't overstate it. But OP might well be one of them. If he can go to Wharton, where Goldman takes 30 kids a year, yeah that's awesome. But Berk has much better odds than say, The University of Kansas, where like nobody gets interviews. Rule of thumb: you're at a target. That means there are seats reserved for your school at the banks, and your resume will be read. But it also means everyone has better stats.
Thanks to the above guys, definitely sheds light on west coast recruiting
I think the bigger question is whether OP would be willing to uproot himself from UoK and his fraternity and all his friends to go to a brand-new environment where things are much tougher, competition way greater and cost is higher since he'll be paying OOS tuition. He'll basically be starting over, and may even have to take another semester if classes don't all transfer. No doubt Cal is the better school by a long shot, but is it worth it to leave everything behind for the marginally higher chance that he'll get into ibanking? He could be the big fish in a small pond @ UoK or fight tooth and nail to be the big fish in a way bigger pond @ Cal. Getting in from a non-target isn't impossible, plus there's always the MBA route.
It's definitely a tough decision to make. OP should still send in applications but think long and hard in the meantime.
Sorry don't know if I made it clear enough. I am from CA. One of the reasons I want to transfer, and my parents, is due to KU out of state tuition. I have friends in USC, UCSB, Cal Poly SLO, and probably a few others. I know USC would be more expensive since it's private but I would be willing to take out a lot of loans if it meant better education, networking, and opportunities. I missed the app deadline for UCLA and CAL i think. Along with several others. All ended Nov. 30. USC I'm applying for and looking into others. Maybe LMU? Since it's close to home, dont know if it's a good school though. Got a lot of friends at SDSU, maybe one at USD.
I'd explore it, personally. Consider other "hidden" targets, like Indiana University, or Ohio State too. They place a couple people every year, and wouldn't be quite as hard to transfer into.
Oh, that changes things...you should definitely send in those apps. USC, maybe some Claremont Colleges? Pomona, CMC, ect. Santa Clara might also be good, it's more Silicon Valley based and I think is gaining traction. Can't say the same about LMU, its law school is pretty terrible and I don't think they're a target. Won't hurt to send in an app anyway. I assume you're full pay for UoK. Is that like 55-60k/year? If so, there are a few options here in CA that would give you a leg up compared to UoK. Why'd you go to Kansas anyway, if I may ask? CA has a great public school system for its price and I've only heard of a handful of my classmates going to OOS state schools; the vast majority stay...
No, KU is only 30k. But it wouldn't be a concern if I was paying that or more for a better college. Didn't have the best grades in HS. I was your typical teenager who didn't try at all. Also, was enlisted in the Marines before I tore my shoulders. So since that went south I applied to colleges and took what I could get. My mom went here and I have some family near by. Plus it's a beautiful campus and its fun.
Found my love for finance, realized what it takes. Got the motivation to do well in school and now have been getting A's. If I could go back in time I would kick my own ass. But i can't so I got to do what I can to improve my situation. Don't even like to party that much anymore since I would rather be learning something or networking.
Problem with a lot of CA schools is that they give first priority to transfer students from CA CCs. Which is bs since anyone can get a 4.0 in those classes. Doesn't make much since from a logical perspective, but perhaps from a political one it does.
Hmm, well from a logical perspective those CC kids don't have anywhere else to go. Can't really do much with an AA which is why they give priority to CC kids.
Perhaps look into some privates on the East Coast too. Unfortunately I don't know much at all about those smaller privates so I can't make recommendations. Looks like the best thing to do now is just send in some apps, see where you get in and then make a decision. If things don't work out with transferring, don't fret. You could still do well at KU, network hard, and try to break in. Target school or not, plenty of people have done it. If not, the MBA route is still an option. Best of luck to you, sir.
I just signed up and I am a junior at Haas so I can shed some light. OOS transfer into Haas is next to impossible. The admission rate is less than one percent. As you know, by law, the UC's must give priority to CCC students first. Majority of CCC students transferring to Haas have stellar apps, great ECs, 4.0's, usually have interned at one or two banks or related firms.
Getting into Haas is actually not that difficult overall(CCC included). They claim a 6% acceptance rate but that is very misleading. A lot of applicants are automatically rejected because they don't meet specific requirements. In the past, you had to complete the 7 class GE breadth to even be considered. A ton of applicants didn't and were automatically rejected. Out of the applicants that DID meet the requirements, the actual admittance rate is around 20-25%. Starting this year, there is no more GE breadth because it was a mess and very confusing for CCC applicants. Instead you take it at Berkeley. This will actually make it tougher to get in because the pre-reqs are now a lot easier which means more qualified applicants.
The only true target school in California is Stanford. Haas is more of a semi-target. We have a lot of regional banks recruit here but only a few top BB banks come down. Very few actually make it to Wall Street. That being said, OCR is very good and landing a SA position at a regional is definitely doable. Not everyone is trying to break into ibanking. A lot of students are aiming for the Big 4 or want to work with the major tech companies (Google, Microsoft, Apple, Oracle etc.) since they all recruit here for different majors.
Brutally honest, you will not get into Haas as an OOS student. Your best shot is to go to CCC and transfer again. It sounds crazy but people do transfer that way (OOS->CCC->UC). There are unit caps if you do it this way though.
UCLA and USC are also semi-targets and recruited but the ibanking presence is not as strong. A lot of students are focused on accounting and the recruiting for accounting is huge in southern California. Other options include UCSD and UC Davis. They have a few regional bank recruits and other firms but absolutely no BB presence. Very few get recruited and getting to Wall Street is next to impossible. The ones that do get to Wall Street actually use OCR at Stanford/Berkeley and sometimes UCLA.
If I were you, I would do everything in my power to transfer to Stern(NYU). I have a friend who transferred from UC Davis to NYU(Stern) after his sophmore year. I don't remember his stats but he had great ecs, work experience, and a 3.6+ GPA. They are more transfer friendly, especially for OOS, being a private school. It is the mecca of ibanking recruiting.
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