Well guys, I give up

Theres always hope man. If you could get an interview with Lehman, and an offer from a fund (even though it was revoked), it shows you have potential. The market is really shitty right now, and jobs are tight. Most places are either letting people go or on a hiring freeze. However, Im sure you could get a job at a financial advisory firm, or a ML Private Client group somewhere. Look into accounting as well. Do not give up though, cus there are jobs out there waiting for you. I was in the same position last year, I thought it was hopeless. Then one day a firm that I cold called got back to me, and I ended up spending my entire summer out in sunny San Diego. I spent more money on rent than I made all summer, but it was worth it, because it looked a lot better on my resume than Baggage Handler at Gold Resort, which is what my summer job would have been had I gone home. Just keep cold calling man, and realize that you might have to make some sacrafices this summer like I did with money. In the end its an investment towards your future, if this is an industry you are serious about getting into. Goodluck

Its tough, I hate to see the people that really want it not get jobs to the people that are like "oooh S&T that sounds fun" and somehow manage to get the SA and FT offers.

Unfortunately thats what happens when demand exceeds supply, the quality of candidate really begins to go up. We are in the environment where everyones cousins brothers sisters fathers mothers aunt and uncle want to work in front office finance. 10 years ago these people went to work for F500 companies but things are changing. Maybe things till cool down eventually but not likely while you are still young.

Face it finance is IN and we are all fighting for the same thing. Only the strong survive. All i can say is keep trying.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

corporate finance internships are always good alternative for undergrads before graduation

I am sorry to hear that.

Why don't you transfer then? It doesn't hurt to try...best of luck

Best, SoulSearching

Well, that gives you some good stuff to talk about during interviews next year. Walk through that history and talk about how you still maintained your persistence despite getting a swift kick in the balls this summer.

shit happens, you gotta roll with the punches...keep working for what you want, and good things will come your way. i know its not much of a consolation to hear it, but seriously DON'T let it get you down!

do a self-study modeling program over the summer, anything that gives you an edge over the next candidate...best of luck

Sucks bro. But atleast you're an undergrad....can you imagine what the soon-to-graduate MBA students are thinking/feeling? Hopefully this will make you feel better, but there are a lot of guys in the same boat as you...including me, 3.7 acco/finance, finance society, athlete, blah blah blah....got a few interviews but nothing else. But keep working at it! It doesnt have to be front office (especially in current market conditions), I settled for middle office, and heck, I would have settled for a summer in back office also.

I read a quote the other day but dont know who said it "our best really shines during the worst of times". GOOD LUCK!

howdydoody:

You are NOT screwed. First of all, I heartily agree with the poster who said that someone who landed an interview with Lehman and got an offer from a hedge fund HAS to have potential.

Second of all, even if you don't find anything decent for this summer (although I think you will, because convincing a firm to let you intern for free should not be very hard), you have a great resume and should be able to get into, say, a top MAcc program from which you could get an analyst gig, or a top law school, etc.

I go to a non-target and got interviews with every BB except Morgan Stanley. It is very possible to get interviews from non target schools if you work hard enough and network.

Thanks for the support guys. I think it's probably a little late for any summer recruiting hopes, not just from the "getting the job" standpoint, but finding housing, drumming up the necessary cash, etc etc. Having no relevant internship to speak of is going to be a major problemo for fall recruiting.

Honestly my resume isn't all that hot, Lehman did in fact come to me and that was maybe a fluke, but the hedge fund was purely an alumni connection, and since it was unpaid, I think I was the only student who bothered applying. The upside is the head honcho of the firm is an alum at my school, and he said I was welcome to call him in the fall for a one month winter-term internship next year. Now, this will already put me behind the game for fall recruiting but this firm is very small so I'll get to have a lot of interaction with the top (one is a fmr ivy league endowment manager, another was a top junk bond trader back in the day). So I'm hoping if I can make a good impression, they'll pull a few strings and get me an interview or two. But we'll have to wait and see.

And to be at jxtxdx's defense, yes coming from a non target can make the very idea of getting a job at a BB laughable. Many people have different ideas of what a non target is. It's frustrating when some people will claim that their school is non target and then rattle off the names of the BB's who recruit there. IF any investment bank MM or BB holds on-campus interviews then in my book, you go to a target.

My college on the other hand is off the radar, which means no one has ever landed a BB position that I know of directly out of undergrad in the last decade. Though a few have gotten in AFTER law school or B-school. You could be a triple major with a 4.0, Phi Betta Kappa, summa cum laude, and you're still not going to get a call from a place like Goldman or Morgan Stanley. And I cant imagine the difficulty networking into a larger firm like that. I had a hard enough time getting my call past the sea of secretaries at a small hedge fund.

what school do you go to? i am really curious

Best, SoulSearching

I'm from a nontarget and managed to get to 4 BB superdays this season and had 2 successful ones. With that said-it's possible.

1.) It's your fault for going to DePaul University. 2.) ZERO banks recruit on-campus at JHU.

Think about it.

My workload has approximately doubled in the past few weeks due to repeated rounds of layoffs (unfortunately I have not yet been laid off). A good portion of my friends have been fired, and even senior people are being shown the doors.

I really think that's what it comes down to - clearly if you got interviews at Lehman and an offer at a hedge fund, you have what it takes.

I've seen tons of great people not get offers lately.... it all comes down to the market. If it's bad, it will be almost impossible to break into finance coming from a non-target.

If I were you I would focus on smaller HFs and alumni connections and see if those can lead anywhere... if you volunteer to do unpaid work, plenty of places should want to hire you.

Man, it sounds like you are pretty motivated and have the desire to pick up something for this summer.

• Network when possible, don't rule out the possibility that your friend's mother's great aunt's ex-boyfriend works at Morgan Stanley or something crazy like that, you'll always find unexpected opportunites like this if you leveraged your contact network.

• Cold-call, it's not fun and it can be tedious but it does pay-off sometimes

• Be persistent, as trade4size says, finance is IN and it's not going to be easy (especially with the current job market), but just look forward to all those hours you're going to spend looking at Excel! It's all gold baby :)

Good luck mate!

Do everything you can do boost your CV and achievements. Work in an accounting firm or something over the summer, find a broker you can do some work experience with-anything that you can draw on in the future that will demonstrate a committment to the industry. Get involved with any business projects your friends might be working on, or start mentoring some younger students at your university. Anything that you can add to your list of achievements and activities-do it. Stay in contact with your school's alumni and try to meet up with as many of them as you can this summer. Be personable and forge genuine connections with these people but make sure they know your career aspirations. Keep researching and don't give up, the application process for next summer will soon begin so you can have another shot.

p.s never use the 'non target' card, even kids from target universities face rejections, but they don't give up.

Well again at this point I'm basically stuck at home. The whole high finance summer internship boat has passed, but I've convinced a brokerage to sponsor me for Series 6,7,63 licenses if I go around giving speeches to people about how to manage their money (ala Suze Orman). Not totally relevant but at least it's something extra to put on the resume besides 'gas station attendant'. I might try moonlighting at this accounting firm as well. Also might start studying for the CFA exam (might help get a research job, or put me in good standing with the hedge fund). Those are the only realistic options at this point.

Then come winter term I'm going to try and give that hedge fund out east another shot.

And then hope for some opportunity to come up. If I'm still out of the game after that, then I can at least be satisfied knowing I did all I could and it wasn't meant to be.

I know people say don't blame it on non-target, but depending on where you go it can be a big deal. I go to a state school that is known more for football and tailgating than its finance program. I'm a star here, in the way of not really having to work hard to make the grade, as most kids are idiots. Am I as smart as some of your classmates who had papa make a few calls to get them off the waitlist, probably. But I will not be perceived that way because of what it says on my degree.

get a local internship on craigslist and leverage it for a BB offer

Although most of the BB banks came to our school, to do on campus interviews,and keep in mind I only have a 3.4GPA I got rejected 7 times. I had 8 different interviews, made second round with 3 of them then made final round with 2 of them and only got one offer. This offer came in about 3 weeks ago (still pretty late for SA). Trust me, I know how bad it sucks to be rejected by something you really want. In the end it did workout for me, but just keep trying.

Also, it is easier to land a fulltime offer than it is a SA job. Most banks will take one or two SA per group, as opposed to a much bigger FT class. Keep that in mind and good luck

wtf...stop blaming on your non-target status.

I have plenty of non-target friends who have BB SA (as sophomores). I am from target (sophomore), but I don't have a BB SA.

Look, you didn't get the job because you weren't as good as others. So...if I were you, I would stop wasting time here and start contacting all the regional boutiques. mock interview with your friends, tape record your interviews and whatever. You didn't try hard enough.

You are not going to get a job by telling everyone how sucky you are. Sure...you convinced a brokerage to sponsor you for Series 6, 7, 63 licenses if you speak to people about how to manage their money (personally, I don't know how you can do that without much credential...you can't even get a decent summer internship, why do you expect people to listen to you? what do you know about managing money? gas station's more legit than "aka Suze Orman"), you are going to try "moonlighting" at an accounting firm, you might also study for the CFA...

You obviously have a lot going on here...my question is, what are you trying to tell us??? If you are smart enough, you would know if you are doing something right or not. so why don't you stay away from this thread until you get your summer job.

I am dead serious when i say that you didn't try hard enough.

Best, SoulSearching

The non-target thing can be difficult -- especially if you are in Utah or something. The main obstacle is getting the interview, then it is all up to you. you got an interview at Lehman and a Hedge Fund offer. The market tanked so neither lined up. Banks will understand that come FT recruiting. It is important that you get SOMETHING this summer though, even if it is an accounting internship at the local department store. SOMETHING numbers related.

Also, you are able/willing to do an unpaid internship in NYC? That should open up a lot of doors with boutiques (not MM, boutiques).

Best of luck...

just as a word of consolation, most banks, fund are making whole departments redundant

hiring is at a low

gradute recruitment is bound to suffer... in other words... it a shi**y year to be looking for work in finance... wow uto the MBA freash grad walking into a markets that is quiet after spending huge fees....

my advice... buy your self a year by going for an MSc in finace and retry when the markets pick up next year*

*hopefully!!!!

This thread went from useful to ridiculous very quickly. Im sorry but to blame someone for going to a non target Notre Dame, Illinois, Michigan State, Maryland, North Carolina etc they are all respectable schools and while they do not have the "prestige" of your IVY your attacking someone for making the wrong decision they like they knew when they were 16/17 years old what it would mean for recruting. Most 16/17 year olds can barely tie their own shoe, yet they are supposed to know what banks recruit at schools. Ridiculous.

Think about what you people are saying here, think back to when you were still in highschool. College can be a very difficult decision. Targets are extremely competitive, and expensive, with that being said people now should be fucked for life because they screwed up in highschool?

The next point i would like to make is that many people have "stumbled" into front office finance jobs and i mean that literally. If there wasnt the hype and hoopla about finance at your school you most likely would be interning at a F500 like people did 10 years ago.

I personally went from a T25 school to a no name Tier3/4. If this was meant to be you WILL FIND A WAY. Right now your focus should be on finding SOMETHING to fill the summer and NETWORKING, and if there are no alums then you are going to need to find someone else that is willing to go to bat for you. Im not talking about someone that will "push your resume into the pile" im talking about someone that wants to help you purely for altruistic reasons. While this is finance there are people out there that are willing to help motivated people.

WHEN THERE IS A WILL THERE IS A WAY!

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

what are ultra non-targets? can anyone care to shed some examples?

first time posting...agree with trade4size, I had no idea what I wanted to do when i went to college and i definitely wasnt thinking who was recruiting at the school I attended. I worked hard and did all that calling stuff and the best I ended up with an internship in operations at a bb. Is it the greatest thing ever no, and from the writing on this site it seems like its looked down upon but Im still thankful for what i got and I'm going to network until I explode over this summer. Sure I should have researched employer recruiting before I chose a college in retrospect but so be it. Make the best of the situation at hand.

My comment was certainly not an attack on anyone; did anyone else read it as such?

The point I was intending on making is purely about the excuses college students make about attending schools that are "non-target" or ultra non-target... either way, excuses are used only to consolidate personal feelings of failure; but yes, there is value in that.

Why isn't there a thread about the benefits of attending a non-target... The harder you work for something the more value it has. Has anyone noticed a difference in the level of preparation and drive from kids coming from non-targets as compared to their counterparts?

As mentioned above, schools like Notre Dame, Illinois, Michigan State, Maryland, North Carolina, Wisconsin all have alumni networks on Wall St. These are non-targets..

Ultra non-target, a term I made up, would be schools like Boise St., University of Utah, University of Colorado, Colorado State University.... the list goes on and on.

I would consider schools as Notre Dame, Illinois, UNC, Wisconsin, etc. as semi-targets. If they have at least a few BBs recruiting on-campus for front-office positions, that is a semi-target IMO. Respectable schools that aren't prestigious enough to be a target.

Non-targets are schools that you would have never heard about if not for athletics, schools that have a direction in the name (Southwestern Iowa State.. I'm making that up but you know what I mean), a lot of city schools, really small and obscure private schools, state schools part of the flagship network but different locations (such as UC Irvine, UC Santa Barbara, etc).

Soul, you obviously didnt get the point. Your so smart but cant get the gist of what im trying to say. I know several people that go to MSU with BB offers. I post another well thought out post and all you can say is "MSU is not respectable".

I hope your future MD went to MSU. Oh wait that would require you to have a job first.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

Oh.... I get it, you go to Michigan. All i have to say is you opened this can of worms not me.

Or what about?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NH1ujxNwrkA&feature=related

Best, Trade4size

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

Is that all you can say? I found your argument illogical, and I pointed it out for you...but you came back to me with totally irrelevant football videos. If I were you, I would have at least linked to videos of MSU beating Michigan. You are weak.

Best, SoulSearching

Well if the can’s been opened…

Wow Soul, you've hit a new low. Is that what people at Michigan do in their free time, watch YouTube videos of the rare occasions when Michigan has a good football play that wasn’t helped by cheating? Maybe next time you can post a video of Mich beating Ohio State…if they had cameras back then.

Back to the matter at hand, to say MSU isn’t a respectable school is ridiculous, especially if you’re basing it off of US News’ rankings. I bet no one involved in that write-up even went there. Could you tell how good a school was when visiting…neither can they.

Coming from a big state-school background myself with all personal views aside, MSU and similar schools that find themselves in the middle of the ultra prestigious “top-100” list (sarcasm intended) are of very high reputations and certainly not sub par. Under the Ivy’s sure, but what about the 1000’s of schools that aren’t even on the list? I’d say making the list alone makes the school above sub-par, or at least nearby.

Soulsearching is just pissed because we have 10x more fun at State than he does at his university, and in the end us State kids still land jobs on Wall Street or in other prestigious fields. Yes, I will agree, there is a lot to be desired here at the Broad School, but things are definitely improving. However, last year I had several friends go off and work on the Street, and several have full time offers lined up for this summer.

If you chose MSU out of the schools listed to shit on, just because you attend a 'better' university down the road then that is pathetic man and I just feel bad for you. Afterall, we are a top 40 B-school and maybe around 70 overall university in the country. Sure its not UofM, but with the thousands upon thousands of universities in the nation, I will take that any day. I love my school, and would never in a million years switch my decision. And lets face it, most of the State kids here could have or did get excepted into UofM (especially someone in my case that was out of state and UofM is easier to get into when you are out of state than MSU). There is just more to college than academics.

By the way, I have nothing against UofM. I grew up in Chicago and was raised by UofM fans. I myself like UofM, and though I attend State, I respect the school. I just felt that State was a better fir for me both academically and socially when it came to decide. Maybe its because I also wanted to have one of the best social scenes in the country, which no one can deny it has. Peace

Yes, Ill admit after I posted that I realized maybe I was assuming everyone experienced what I did. I on the other hand knew several kids that were accepted into UofM, and not MSU, and at the time I was told that it was because UofM loves out of state students due to the fees and thus are more acceptiong. But you are probably right, and I take that comment back (for the most part). Though A LOT of my friends here at State were accepted to UofM, but like me, they chose the overall environment. But you are probably right, our situtation is different than the other 40 some thousand students that go here.

Anyway, point is that both schools are great institutions, one for academics, and the other for the overall college scene. We can all sit here and fight about it, but it will just make this thread more pointless and further deviate from the orignial message.

You have to understand that not everyone goes after the academics in colleges. I will admit that I know several people who have gone to state schools despite having amazing offers from ivies. They just don't care about it. They're having fun in state schools and think about it, college is a four year experience, and from their perspective they may never get to do the same stuff again. How many times do you get to turn 21 and have the biggest topless party thrown for you?

Soul correct me if im wrong but didnt you post the youtube clip first. Dont be bitter because i showed your ultra prestigious target school getting beat by the ultra non target no name school appalachian state.

Does anyone else see the irony here. The david vs goliath situation. Here he is bashing MSU, and the untouchable UM is beaten by the lesser apalachian state. I POSTED THAT LINK AS PART OF AN EXTENDED METAPHOR. As for the C Web, well i just couldnt resist myself.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

Yes, Top 40. I know what I said. What of it? 40 out of several thousand isnt good enough? What is the point you are trying to make? Okay, we get it, UofM is a better school academically. You got me. Congrats man. Odds are we will end up working the same job down the road.

Anyways, Im not here to fight about it. We all know the rankings, we all know UofM is the cream of the crop, but we also know that State kids make it on the Street. Are you threatened by that, or did a State kid take your spot at a BB this year? Does it really matter in the end? I just do not understand why some people feel the need to shit on other schools.

Soul where are you interning this summer? Oh thats right you dont have an internship. Shame your wasting all that money to lose internship ti state kids for half the price.

I got an idea, maybe you can team up with the OP working at the gas station?

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

Last I checked, things such as personality, motivation and such were just as important if not more important than academics. Certainly more important then the school you attend. How your school ranks is of little indication as to your own abilities. There are plenty of really smart and telented people at state schools such as MSU in the same respect that there are plenty of idiots at "better" schools such as Mich.

The people who will do the best are those who realize that their school's name, no matter how prestigeous, will not carry them through life alone.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

Funny how Soul neglects my comments; maybe beause they are true. Do yourself and your school a favor buddy and stop talking. Your post are as ignorant as they come on this forum and only confirm a lot of the sentiment I and many others have towards Michigan and its students.

How do we have more fun, lets go down your list: Yes, yes, and well that just makes it easier to get laid (I suggest it sometime).

Actually, we also are ranked in the top schools for education, supply chain management (oh, heaven forbid, its not finance!), and agriculture.

Awesome, you ONCE had some State kids over at your dorm. Glad a few kids were able to represent 45 thousand others. Shallow...

Wow, now you shit on a kids major just because its human resources. Most Broad students are in Supply Chain, Marketing, Finance, or Accounting. Matter of fact HR is a small major here. Once again youre judging an entire institution on one kid. Shallow...

And the kid had to piss, whats the point. Some how I think you are exaggerating the story here to make a lame point.

Nice video. I was there, and I had a blast. The party went from 10am to 2am, 16 hours without any disturbances. Dont be pissed cus no one invited you.

Soul I think this about sums up what i think about you.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

To sum it up:

Some prestigious universities will send stellar kids to BB banks. Some not-so-prestigious universities will send stellar kids to BB banks. Some abso-fucking-lutely worthless sub-par kids will come out of both prestigious and not-so-prestigious universities and not get into BB banks.

soulsearching, mr. green, trade4size; where will you be working again?

The quality of a school doesn't determine the quality of its individual students.

Exactly where I want to be.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

soulsearching:

Shut up, please. Your idiotic posts are making our school look bad.

Best, A fellow ross sophomore

Soulsearching, what happened to your soul? Did you flush it down the toilet?

Also, why did you have to hijack this thread? Howdydoody simply needed some honest advice. Your ranting is such a disgrace to not only your school but yourself. If you wanna brag how great UMich is, start a new thread.

To howdydoody,

I'm glad you told your story. I was in exactly the same situation as you this time last year. For the summer of my junior year, I thought for sure I wasn't gonna get anything at all. I applied late. Neither did I network hard enough. I placed all my bets on MS ops because they recruited on campus. Eventually I got dinged after being put on hold. I spent my entire spring break moping. Out of desperation, I interviewed with accounting firms and got offered a busy season intern with KPMG, thinking worst comes worst, I'd get a master of accounting. Towards the very end of April, a friend from an equity research workshop told me about an internship with a boutique in NYC. She got the job. I asked for the info and sent out an e-mail, not hoping for much because the dude already took one person from my school. To my surprise, got a call back and go the equity research position.

As I was interning over summer, I knew full-time recruiting would be difficult as the credit crisis started to unfold. I made it to final round with Bear Stearns and BNP Paribas. The alum at Bear that interviewed me is a total douche. Got to BNP Paribas 10 minutes late because of unexpected traffic control due to UN Conference. Both led to rejection. Interviewed with Piper Jaffray FIG. Also rejected. Applied online to a couple European banks. Interviewed with HSBC and RBS in Nov. (Interviewed with senior people at HSBC after superday; got rejected by RBS). Then Flew to Hong Kong for an interview with ABN AMRO, later to Beijing for an interview with a boutique investment advisory firm. Got rejected a month later by ABN Amro and still haven't heard back from the boutique firm in Beijing.

During final period, applied online to every American, European BB for Summer Analyst and thought about delaying graduation. Got invited for a a phone interview with Goldman Sachs (Asia). Made it to superday in New York. Didn't get a phone call the same day, and was informed "on hold" the next day. 20 days later, rejection from IBD came in. Three hours later, another HR informed me of openings in FICC Investing. I indicated my interest but never heard back. Called her up during spring break and she said she felt sorry and she'd keep an eye for openings, possibly in Prime Brokerage. A week later at midnight, she called, and informed me of a phone interview with equities team. A day later, spoke with the team, loved them. An hour later, got a call and it was an offer at delta one prop desk. Almost screamed when i got the call.

From the beginning, I never gave up on searching. I applied to everything finance-related through career services at our school. I tried to catch up on the markets and read FT or the journal almost every day. I learned that when it came to recruiting, you need solid skills, good personalities, but sometimes a little luck. When it comes down to it, getting into IBD or S&T is a small probability event, which means there can be multiple setbacks down the road. Howdydoody, if you stick to what are you doing right now, you very well might end up somewhere great over the summer, which would give you substantial edge when full-time recruiting comes. If full-time doesn't pan out, apply to summer analyst positions and delay graduation. Whatever it takes. Whatever job it is. Look at some of the research roles at smaller firms such as: Roth Capital Partners, Foxx-Pitt, Kelton, Rodman & Renshaw, William & Blair, Cowen & Co, Sandler O'Neil Partners. Also take a look at doostang. It's a growing networking site featuring many opportunities. Talk to alum and get your career services to put you in touch with them. Research and start cold calling people. My ex-girlfriend got a position this summer at a Merrill Private Client in NYC through e-mail and cold-calling people. I was in exactly the same situation as you at this time last year. I felt compelled to write about my experience because I know it is difficult to go through all this and I want to encourage you to pursue the career that you truly want despite the market downturn and adversities. Coming from a top 50 school that's more known for its parties than academics, I can tell you that the move to BB is absolutely possible. I hope you can keep trying and land a position you like. Best of luck. If you need anything, just PM me.

Great story John, just goes to show ya what a little motivation can do.