Can we really “have it all?”
With almost 9,000 comments, 375,000 recommendations, and 11,000 tweets, Amy Chua’s lengthy diatribe against American-style parenting might be one of the most-read articles on the internet. A recent piece in The Atlantic however, seems to be giving Chua a run for her money.
In a record-breaking, 15,000 word article about the hardships of maintaining a decent work-life balance, Anne-Marie Slaughter asks “why can’t women have it all?”
I ask, “who the hell can?!?”
Slaughter's background of 100+ hour weeks, no vacations, and looking like someone on bath salts should be familiar territory for a lot of people here. The kicker however is that she decided to leave her teenage children with her husband in Trenton, NJ while she spent the weekdays working in D.C.
That's when things started becoming tricky:
BEFORE MY SERVICE in government, I’d spent my career in academia: as a law professor and then as the dean of Princeton’s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. Both were demanding jobs, but I had the ability to set my own schedule most of the time. I could be with my kids when I needed to be, and still get the work done. I had to travel frequently, but I found I could make up for that with an extended period at home or a family vacation.
My workweek started at 4:20 on Monday morning, when I got up to get the 5:30 train from Trenton to Washington. It ended late on Friday, with the train home. In between, the days were crammed with meetings, and when the meetings stopped, the writing work began--a never-ending stream of memos, reports, and comments on other people's drafts. For two years, I never left the office early enough to go to any stores other than those open 24 hours, which meant that everything from dry cleaning to hair appointments to Christmas shopping had to be done on weekends, amid children's sporting events, music lessons, family meals, and conference calls. I was entitled to four hours of vacation per pay period, which came to one day of vacation a month...
In short... I could no longer be both the parent and the professional I wanted to be--at least not with a child experiencing a rocky adolescence. I realized what should have perhaps been obvious: having it all, at least for me, depended almost entirely on what type of job I had. The flip side is the harder truth: having it all was not possible in many types of jobs, including high government office--at least not for very long.
After this earth-shattering discovery, she started to hunt down the culprits, eventually pointing her fingers at government, gender equality, and workplace culture as the roots of the problem before proceeding to map out how this could all be fixed, like:
• changing the culture of face time – the “time macho,” workaholic culture we have going on needs to stop so that parents can see their kids more. The ability to bring work home for example could make women more efficient, even able to work 24/7.
• redefining the arc of a successful career - women should think about the climb to leadership not in terms of a straight upward slope, but as irregular stair steps, with periodic plateaus (and even dips) when they turn down promotions to remain in a job that works for their family situation, etc.
• Revaluing Family Values – Many people in positions of power apparently place a low value on child care in comparison with other outside activities, oftentimes ignoring how hard it is being a mother. Slaughter wants this addressed.
And so on and so forth.
I understand where she’s coming from, I just found out that I’m gonna be dad and naturally, I plan to spend a lot of time with my son or daughter when he or she comes into this world. But seriously, can anyone be Mr. #1 dad while trying to be Mr. #1 Alpha BSD at the same time? No. What Slaughter doesn’t seem to realize is that life is about making choices and that you can’t be two things at the same time. Compromises have to be made. Every grown man and woman knows that. How she didn’t even realize this before she took the job is beyond me. Come to think of it, it's kinda childish of her to scream justice! for this.
Another thing she doesn’t seem to get is that this isn’t a problem solely for women. This shit is just as true for men. Just take a look at your MD’s, they're all rolling in dough but you’d be hard pressed to find one who sees his or her kids more than an hour each day.
There are a lot of things to nitpick here but I think it's best to leave that to you guys. I am wrong here? Can we really “have it all?” Why would you want to have it all anyway? And for the ladies of WSO, what do you think of Slaughters proposals? Do you agree with them? Do you think they'll work? Do you think moms are victims of prejudice in the workplace? And for the dudes, what would you do if your girl was like this? Haha. I think Tiger Mom Chua might've been easier to handle. You?
Curious what you guys have to say.
Comments
In IB and consulting, it is
In IB and consulting, it is almost impossible. In ER and Sales, it is doable, aside from client meetings/earnings season/occaisional travel. In trading, AM, and most F500 jobs, it should be quite doable.
Hedge funds and PE firms vary too much to make a blanket statement.
I guess it would be more accurate to say you can't have it all while doing whatever you want.
Folks like Slaughter are
Folks like Slaughter are obnoxious, they don't want to have to make hard trade-offs, so instead they try to rework the system to limit the actions of others.
Why is this so hard for
Why is this so hard for people to recognise that one can never find meaning and purpose in wage slavery... ? This is the key issue.
If you could make enough money to support a family by doing 40-50 hrs of work a week and 5-6 six weeks off a year, you could have it all, an income, security, some leisure and proper relationships with your family... but you can't have that as an employee in most countries. Our respective political systems are rigged against us and whenever someone tries to organise to change this we call them socialists / commies / hippies / parasites / (insert favourite pejorative)...
All of the above is before you consider the masses that want to become the "boss" and have influence over others and better rewards than their peers... For them, I have no sympathies for misguided lifestyle choices. There is no free lunch...
relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.
Relinquis: Our respective
Our respective political systems are rigged against us and whenever someone tries to organise to change this we call them socialists / commies / hippies / parasites / (insert favourite pejorative)...
That's because they ARE socialists/communists. As you yourself said, "There's no free lunch..." That goes for everyone, not just the people trying to be successful. Capitalism is the driving factor in the American machine, and as soon as we start to forget that, shit is going to hit the fan pretty fucking quickly.
If you think you can have
If you think you can have everything you want in life, then you will die a very unhappy person.
Conversely, if you think it's impossible to achieve your goals professionally while still having time for your personal and social life goals as well, then again, you will die a very unhappy person. Now I'm not religious so perhaps those who are will be more familiar with this term, but there's a strange concept out there called "sacrifice," and apparently if you make a few of them you can get other stuff you want. That might mean you work extra hard and give up those weekend or Thursday nights trolling Chelsea boys or whatever it is you kids do these days, but after about 2-3 years of that and some hard work you can find yourself in a position where you have a lot more freedom in your life.
You don't have to be a cog in the system your entire life, it's not the government's fault, it's not wage slavery, and it's not George Bush's fault. If you want something bad enough you can get it, but there's too many people walking around these days who for whatever reason believe that they can have their cake and eat it too. You just simply cannot, and whoever taught them that the only way to be happy was to accomplish everything you set out to do, then that person should be shot.
In short, no, you cannot "have it all." But nobody else can either. My philosophy is that happiness is not a state of being, it's a temporary emotion that comes and goes. If you expect to be happy all the time and get everything you want in life, then you're going to be sorely disappointed. It's a lot easier living when you realize that instead of being entitled to all these things, you have to work for them. You feel a lot better when you actually achieve your goals, and you're far less unhappy if you have to make compromises.
I hate victims who respect their executioners
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Jorgé: I understand where
I understand where she’s coming from, I just found out that I’m gonna be dad and naturally, I plan to spend a lot of time with my son or daughter when he or she comes into this world. But seriously, can anyone be Mr. #1 dad while trying to be Mr. #1 Alpha BSD at the same time? No. What Slaughter doesn’t seem to realize is that life is about making choices and that you can’t be two things at the same time. Compromises have to be made. Every grown man and woman knows that. How she didn’t even realize this before she took the job is beyond me. Come to think of it, it's kinda childish of her to scream justice! for this.
Another thing she doesn’t seem to get is that this isn’t a problem solely for women. This shit is just as true for men. Just take a look at your MD’s, they're all rolling in dough but you’d be hard pressed to find one who sees his or her kids more than an hour each day.
Congrats on the upcoming kid, and SB for you for the comments above. In many ways, you are just stating the obvious Jorgé, but it's the kind of 'obvious' that so many people take for granted. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and we all have to make choices everyday about what kind of life we want to live. There are plenty of jobs out there that pay decent money for solely 40 hours a week (and with good vacation time plus benefits). She easily could have had one of those jobs. In many cases, if you want the really high profile and/or high paying jobs, you have to make big tradeoffs. No one will just make your life easy by handing you a high paying, high profile job, that has low hours and good work/life balance. Quite frankly, why should they? Honestly, the only profession that seems offer that opportunity is entrepreneurship (since you can often set your own hours and be your own boss). With that said though, entrepreneurship is also not easy, and many entrepreneurs work ridiculously long hours too. Not to mention, the inherent entrepreneurial risk of working on something for a long time and winding up with neither money nor prestige.
For my aspiring Entrepreneurial Nomads, check out my blog.
Probably just that time of
Probably just that time of the month.
“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
- Schopenhauer
seabird: Probably just that
Probably just that time of the month.
Haha - after reading all the serious comments I thought this was pretty funny.
It's nice to see that everyone on WSO here seems to agree. Yes you can make smart use of you time and if you work efficiently at the office, it could sometimes mean that extra hour a week you're spending at home or whatever. But ultimately it comes down to choices. Everybody has to make them and has to live with them
There is already a book on you. That book is already being written. And if I talked to your friends, your teachers, your professionals, your family, I would know so much about you I wouldn't even have to meet you. You write the book the way you want to be
BVMadden: Relinquis: Our
Our respective political systems are rigged against us and whenever someone tries to organise to change this we call them socialists / commies / hippies / parasites / (insert favourite pejorative)...
That's because they ARE socialists/communists. As you yourself said, "There's no free lunch..." That goes for everyone, not just the people trying to be successful. Capitalism is the driving factor in the American machine, and as soon as we start to forget that, shit is going to hit the fan pretty fucking quickly.
What are you on about? The USA is a socialist country, it's just not very good at it (i.e. you let your most vulnerable down often, for example in healthcare). US government spending as % of GDP is in the 38% region so by your statement above you should be knee high in faeces...
Anyway, back to the point of the thread. I feel you can't ignore the politics of the situation that easily. It seems that it is very difficult to find a good balance in one's life within the system. Therefore everyone talks about serving their time and ejecting (early retirement) or opting out the system entirely. This doesn't have to be the way it is and the reasons are political. Lets take a simple example... Annual holidays.
Quick Poll... How many weeks holiday do you guys get a year?
Personally, I think anything less than 5 weeks a year is pure wage slavery. You won't have the time to visit your friends & family and go somewhere new on an annual basis if you have less.
What do you guys think?
relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.
I feel like this is pretty
I feel like this is pretty simple issue that people don't want to address at face value. Everything in life is a trade off, if you want to do drugs, then you trade off your success, if you want to work as an IB and make millions then you are trading off your family life. If it wasn't so difficult, then it wouldn't pay as well. You ultimately just have to find the balance in how much money you are happy making vs. the amount of time you want to spend with your family. The two are typically an inverse relationship.
dest149: if you want to do
if you want to do drugs, then you trade off your success
Let's not make any bold claims here.
I hate victims who respect their executioners
Follow BH & Co. on Twitter: @DumbLuckCapital
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Relinquis: Anyway, back to
Anyway, back to the point of the thread. I feel you can't ignore the politics of the situation that easily. It seems that it is very difficult to find a good balance in one's life within the system. Therefore everyone talks about serving their time and ejecting (early retirement) or opting out the system entirely. This doesn't have to be the way it is and the reasons are political. Lets take a simple example... Annual holidays.
Quick Poll... How many weeks holiday do you guys get a year?
Personally, I think anything less than 5 weeks a year is pure wage slavery. You won't have the time to visit your friends & family and go somewhere new on an annual basis if you have less.
What do you guys think?
Srsly bro? Americans have it better than humans have had it for 99.999% of human history, we live GREAT compared to the average humans in the world today. The poorest have things the richest didnt have access to a hundred years ago - all the information in the world (at libraries or on computers, which most impoverished people have), xbox's, air conditioning, a stove and refridgerator, access to coffee and fruit and shit and a lifespan thats a hell of a lot better than it was in the past. You KNOW that people have it easy/good these days.
“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
- Schopenhauer
What does that have to do
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.
Relinquis: What does that
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Was going to post the same thing, hahah. But 5 weeks of vacation... minimum?! Doesn't seem realistic, someone's always willing to work for less - at least in this country.
Reality denied comes back to haunt
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Rel, I love you but you call
Rel, I love you but you call it "wage slavery" because youre coming from a really uppity sort of perspective. The vast majority of people through history would have loved to have had our opportunities/wealth.
“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
- Schopenhauer
BlackHat: In short, no, you
I know this sounds like a
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In The Flesh: I know this
I hate victims who respect their executioners
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BlackHat: In The Flesh: I
Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?
Nabooru: BlackHat: In The
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BlackHat: My philosophy is
Leadership can be defined in two words: "Follow Me"
Relinquis: Anyway, back to
Its definitely true you can't
In Time I wander