Students: Network with Associates and VPs (not MD's)
We have done some quality recruiting the past few years. We have a great intern in the group this summer; a major overachiever, picks up things on the run and is always down to get a drink after work. Our first year analyst pool is equally as solid. I have come to realize that:
1. Associates have a major say in the recruiting process.
2. The people you work with everyday drive 95% of your job satisfaction.
So to both of these points, the somewhat crude and sarcastic tone in the office that keeps me going everyday has grown leaps and bounds since I started, in part due to our strong recruiting. I have been lucky enough to participate in our campus recruiting program, ensuring that we bring in the right talent. Once we round down to interviews, everyone in the group is astronomically smart and perfectly capable of performing the job from an intellectual perspective. While many college students think that academics are the driving force in securing a job, grades are just a check the box. We want the guy that will take shit from the team all week, crank out good work and then lead the charge to grab a drink. We have made the mistake of hiring the always serious academic all-star and we’re still paying for it (during training he emailed the MD to tell him that he was not one of the analysts who got in trouble for boozing, dragging their mattress into the hotel room hallway and being awakened by HR the next morning).
College Students – Network with Associates and VPs! I remember sophomore and junior year, during my countless calls to alumni and family friends, that I was always excited to get an MD on the phone. The truth is, these guys are out of touch, and while they do run the group, they don’t really give a shit about your recruiting process. When they jumped into the bank 25 years ago, things were different! Talk to associates. They are close enough to their recruiting days to still give relevant advice, and have enough respect in the group to put in a good word. I know that when we recruit, our MD’s are heavily influenced by our opinions. MD’s have little to no ability to differentiate between candidates (usually our candidates are all from 1-2 schools, all have 3.8 gpa or above and are fairly articulate). I always put in a good word for the candidates that are more relaxed, but still had a strong grasp on the fundamentals of banking. Despite what every HR person says, banks are not flat! Associates are hiring the next person to join their team, the one person they get to push shit to. Remember it goes from God to MD to VP to Associate to Analyst/Intern. Network accordingly.
Comments
Great post - thanks! :)
Great post - thanks! :)
What? Maybe I'm just ignorant
What? Maybe I'm just ignorant but why would an MD give a microscopic shit about some dumb analysts sleeping in the hallway of their hotel?
I liked that you pointed out
I liked that you pointed out the academics. What some fail to realize is that being social and able to hold a conversation about something other than finance is just as important.
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Thank you! That's fantastic
Thank you! That's fantastic advice. I just have one question - are you sure that this isn't just how your firm does things? Is it possible that in other firms, MDs want to handpick every person for their team, especially for boutiques? Given that you only have one person, I'd guess you're in a boutique as well; why wouldn't your MDs care who you bring on?
I'm not trying to stir the pot, just want to get a better understanding. In my own experience, networking with Analysts/Associates has been so much more rewarding so far; MDs just try to dissuade me from being a banker.
My M&A internship in college,
My M&A internship in college, full-time M&A stint, and current PE gig all came from cold e-mails & calls to MDs. I think the personality of the individual you are reaching out to matters more than their level of seniority.
I think at boutiques, MDs are
I think at boutiques, MDs are totally fine, since the shops are smaller and a large part of the culture is dependent on camaraderie, etc. -- a big part of that, at least during recruitment, is having the cajones to get in touch with MDs and prove to them that you mesh with the firm's culture.
I don't know much about how this works at BBs, but I know recruitment tends to be more structured, and I would imagine that having Associate and Analyst friends is likely more valuable.
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Waiting for more responses.
Waiting for more responses.
Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening?
Brill: I blew up the building.
Robert Clayton Dean: Why?
Brill: Because you made a phone call.
Out of all the offers that I
Out of all the offers that I received and all those where I came up short I realized something:
MDs will not hesitate to ding someone if they get pissed off in an interview, but when it comes down to it the Associates and VPs have most of the say.
honestly I think it's not
honestly I think it's not possible to generalize. I think all the points in the post are fair, but to say that they are true across all banks and all groups is a little ambitious. The truth really is to network with anyone you can, have a good attitude, and don't be a tool. This will carry weight no matter what the rank of the person you're talking to.
The flip side is that an
The flip side is that an associate or VP cannot get someone hired without still having that candidate go through BS and interviews...I know MDs who have literally said "We are hiring this kid" and that was the hiring process.
Yeah, but who would want to
Yeah, but who would want to work at a shop where an MD micro-manages/undermines the only thing organizationally that VPs and below have a say on? And out of those MDs, was the person that they wanted to hire someone who cold-called them, or a family member/family friend? I'd say, in general, networking with VP and below is far more effective for ultimately getting hired than an MD.
I worked for a regional office of a global (so small analyst classes) and, well I suppose they could have done more but, effectively, the best an MD could do was get someone a sure interview. We had an MD put forward a name of a friend's kid, and the guy was awful. So we didn't invite him to superday. The MD asked how he was and we just told him that there were much stronger candidates.
I know this may be a slight
I know this may be a slight generalization but there is an exception to everything. I still found plenty of useful information :)
wallstreetmonkey85: Yeah, but
Yeah, but who would want to work at a shop where an MD micro-manages/undermines the only thing organizationally that VPs and below have a say on? And out of those MDs, was the person that they wanted to hire someone who cold-called them, or a family member/family friend? I'd say, in general, networking with VP and below is far more effective for ultimately getting hired than an MD.
Dude, this happens everywhere...and I can count several instances in the chairs right around me -- including myself -- where it resulted from a cold-call/email.
Great Post thanks!
Great Post thanks!
I agree with this post 100%.
I agree with this post 100%. Even if you want to network with MDs, chances are they might not want to network with you. I recently cold emailed a MD; although he responded quickly, he told me he was really busy and that I would be better off contacting associates and analysts.
Good post, Thanks!
Here to learn and hopefully pass on some knowledge as well. SB if I helped.
I disagree. I am from a non
Great advice
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Excellent advice. Thanks
Same here. I've reached out
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