The Simple Life
Although the "screw banking" threads have started to become less frequent here on WSO, I think we're still very much in an era of people questioning themselves with respect to their life choices and wondering, perhaps more than ever, whether the grass really is greener on the other side.
I live in a small city in the Southeast that is mostly populated by "regular" folks -- the chief industry drivers in my area include (technically, included, as we no longer have any industry) tobacco and textiles. This means that the majority of my friends growing up came from families of regular folks. That doesn't imply that they weren't wealthy, many were, but they were far more "simple" than the people who live the lifestyle we've come to know and desire as [prospective] financiers.
I recently moved back to the area to pursue banking here (I'm from NC, so in Charlotte), and I've been catching up with a lot of people from high school and making friends with people from my hometown who didn't really see a reason to leave the state to go to college.
This means that a lot of the people I hang out with on the weekends went to, gasp, community college and work blue-collar jobs. They're not stupid people in the slightest -- I consider myself to be a smart person, but I can tell that a lot of my friends down here have great raw intelligence that hasn't been refined due to their life circumstances...if your parents never went to college and worked as locksmiths or bricklayers, there is a good chance that they will never motivate you to go to college yourself (and sadly, that is where intelligence is "refined" in many ways).
Just the other day I was hanging out with one of my friends who works at McDonald's. Again, this is _not_ a stupid guy, he is in fact very sharp, reads the news and is up on everything that's going on, and is generally very sharp. Can you attribute his lifestyle to circumstance? I guess in some ways that is possible, but it could also be due to laziness and/or wanting to avoid failure (i.e. taking the path of least resistance to the extreme). His girlfriend works at a similar fast food joint and just finished community college to become a nursing assistant. She's currently looking for a job.
These interactions with my friends got me thinking, though. Perhaps we _don't_ really live in an era where one needs to switch companies a dozen times in his/her career (for folks like us in finance, career switching is essentially inevitable, but elsewhere I think that's strictly false). What if my friend's girlfriend gets a job as a CNA, works her way up, gets RN certification, and eventually, 15-20 years down the road, makes a very solid $80-100K salary as the head nurse on the floor? What if my friend, after 15 years of hard work at McDonald's, being that he is naturally gifted, becomes a regional or district manager? When I worked at a grocery store, my manager came from the boonies in NC, grew up an orphan, started working at the store when he was 15, and recently (35 years later) became a district manager pulling in nearly $200K.
These are all things that are still possible in the "blue collar" world, and time and time again I read that we're in an era where one simply _cannot_ work for the same company for a lifetime. I think there's also a lot to be said for working up to it slowly -- something that most of us simply cannot fathom. I'll be the first to admit that if I break six-figures in 20 years instead of in the next 6 months, I will be sorely disappointed with myself. But then again, I know a lot of people in public service who are PhD educated, 50+ years old, and only pull in a hair over 6 figures...and I know a lot of people in the corporate world who didn't even go to college but managed to "get there" after years and years of hard work.
I guess this is all to say: don't discount the kid who works hard at McDonald's, because even though his/her definition of "making it" might be different, the possibility is still very real.
What do you guys make of this? Does the "work for one place forever" mantra still apply for certain, and I would argue VERY large, portions of the workforce?
Comments
I'm going to preface this by
I'm going to preface this by stating that I am an 18 year old soon to be college student. Apparently that means that I'm not capable of forming opinions on the "real world" according to others on this forum.
When I was in high school, I worked in the service industry for most of my four years. I hated it. I made a decent amount of money which was my goal with the job. That was my only goal, though. I obviously had no intentions of staying there. While working there, I met people (coworkers) that had no intentions of going to college, or had intentions of going to culinary school. I also met people that were planning to go to college, but a small regional school where they planned to do decently enough that they can get out of the service industry, but perhaps not much further than that. So, I said in a recent thread that I don't understand the mindset of mediocrity. Apparently, there are plenty of people that are still looking to work in these blue collar jobs, and that's just fine with them. As I said, I don't really feel the same way and have trouble understanding how they feel that way.
Before I met those people, I assumed that we were moving into a world of an ever increasing number of college students looking for a much more slowly increasing number of jobs. I assumed that the internet and advances in technology motivated more people to strive for success. While it likely did motivate a lot of people that otherwise would have pursued a career in a "blue collar" field, there are still plenty of people willing to settle down into smaller time jobs with the same firm and not a huge prospect for much advancement.
It's very hard for me, and I assume most of the other people on this forum, to judge whether or not there are still masses of people planning to "work for one place forever" since it's hard to have a complete understanding of such a large amount of people. Apparently there are currently enough people pursuing this idea since there hasn't been a huge collapse in "blue collar" workers that run a lot of the necessary components on the lower end of a firm. In recent years, there has been a lot of outsourcing to countries where labor is cheaper than it is here. There is a lot of complaining related to this with people saying that jobs are, "being taken away from the American people." While many Americans do lose their jobs when companies outsource to other countries, perhaps we are sending away jobs that the newer generations of workers will not be as interested in.
Anyway, back to my coworkers from my high school job. I actually asked a few of them why they weren't going to college. Most of them said that the money they were making was "good money" or thought that the money they could be making in the future assuming a promotion or two was "good money". That shocked me considering I knew that most of them made around 13 dollars an hour working ~40-50 hours a week. So it's all about perception I suppose. I think it's very hard for people striving for success on a much greater scale to easily evaluate the future of blue collar jobs. I know that I personally have trouble predicting what the future looks like for blue collar jobs since I don't see the appeal whatsoever. If I looked completely objectively at "blue collar" jobs, I would say that it's a rapidly dying industry and there is no motivation for anyone to pursue a "blue collar" career in the foreseeable future. I believe that not to be the case considering that there is no imminent threat of losing millions of these important workers.
Vontropnats: What do you guys
What do you guys make of this? Does the "work for one place forever" mantra still apply for certain, and I would argue VERY large, portions of the workforce?
Having grown up in an entrepreneurial family, where my father built multiple businesses (including construction, real estate, export), I have always believed that I work for "MyFirstName_Inc".
"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
Vontropnats: I'll be the
I'll be the first to admit that if I break six-figures in 20 years instead of in the next 6 months, I will be sorely disappointed with myself.
Dude...seriously? I understand the 20-year thing, but you're going to be SORELY dissapointed if you don't break six figs in 6-months?
I wouldn't put so much stock on timing/money as much as doing what you want to do. You might not break into IB in the next 6 months, but maybe you will in the next 8 months. And maybe when you do, it might be a small boutique and you won't clear six figs. Take a more long-term view of your career. Once you're in it's what you do there that matters and dictates where you can end up - not how long it took you to get there and what your starting salary was.
Value_added: Vontropnats:
I'll be the first to admit that if I break six-figures in 20 years instead of in the next 6 months, I will be sorely disappointed with myself.
Dude...seriously? I understand the 20-year thing, but you're going to be SORELY dissapointed if you don't break six figs in 6-months?
I wouldn't put so much stock on timing/money as much as doing what you want to do. You might not break into IB in the next 6 months, but maybe you will in the next 8 months. And maybe when you do, it might be a small boutique and you won't clear six figs. Take a more long-term view of your career. Once you're in it's what you do there that matters and dictates where you can end up - not how long it took you to get there and what your starting salary was.
Both figures are arbitrary and for illustrative purposes. Could be 6 months, could be 12, could be 18; could be 100k, could by 75k, could be 130k. The main point, which I think you clearly understand, is that for someone in my position - and for most people on this site - it's very difficult to imagine "relative" wealth coming in 20 years as opposed to the next 2-4.
"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
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This.
This.
Yes people have different
Yes people have different standards and come from different backgrounds. Very deep...
People choose what they want
People choose what they want to do and it is totally up to them. Some want easy job to enjoy life and staying in the same company gives them many advantages. They make it their home and they can get away from many things like taking many days off or coming in late. Switching new jobs means you have to re-establish yourself there. It takes time and also effort.
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not everyone wants to work
not everyone wants to work 100 hours a week for the modelz and bottlez. some people wanna work an easy 40 hours a week and come home and watch sitcoms and drink beer all evening. that's fine with me, less competition for the jobs i want. the economy wouldn't work without EITHER group, let's get that straight.
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
Screw "screw banking".
Screw "screw banking".
"Every man should lose a battle in his youth, so he does not lose a war when he is old"
$200k in 20 years ? Geez I
$200k in 20 years ? Geez I almost made that as a 1st year. Thanks but no thanks
mxc: $200k in 20 years ? Geez
$200k in 20 years ? Geez I almost made that as a 1st year. Thanks but no thanks
Most people don't sniff $80K after 20 years -- I'd say $200K in 20 years is EXTREMELY fortunate for someone coming from a pretty humble background.
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I come from a middle class,
I come from a middle class, small town background. I am the only one among my siblings to have gone to college. That I don't give a shit if most people make less than $100k doesn't imply that I'm a disconnected, entitled preppy.
mxc: I come from a middle
I come from a middle class, small town background. I am the only one among my siblings to have gone to college. That I don't give a shit if most people make less than $100k doesn't imply that I'm a disconnected, entitled preppy.
I'm not 100% sure of what you mean by that last sentence...
"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
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I think America's a crappy
I think America's a crappy place when it comes to middle-class living. Ok, crazy comment, let me explain.
I just find suburban life - go home and watch tv after work - to be a mediocre existence. And that's what a lot of America is. If you have a corporate job in some sprawling suburb, ahhhhghgh, the thought....
I think Europe and some Asian countries...see Japan, are a lot more "charming" and social and cultural when it comes to a middle-class existence. These countries have great public spaces and museums, great food, and people just tend to live life with a bit more style. There's something nice about that. Maybe the job isn't great, but i admire the lifestyle.
To get a decent urban lifestyle in America takes a pretty darn good salary. Chicago is a good balance, but we all know NY is expensive.
I'm not really a far left person either. I love NY and London, and if someone wants to work their ass of for a nice flat in the Upper West side, I think that's fantastic. But i also love the places like Montreal, Kyoto, and Barcelona. America has an Austin and a Charleston here and there, but there's a huge amount of crap out there too.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you're going to do something alternative, like be a ski bum in Utah or a Sommelier in Napa, all the power to you, but a service job at McDonald's in a crappy suburb? I just find that extremely depressing. It's not meaningful. I just don't see how anyone could be interested in sliding burgers into a heat tray. A chef is one thing, but god...
I say, "To each their own." I
I say, "To each their own."
I see many appealing things about both suburban and urban living. I think you are more capable of developing this perspective if you were ever raised in the suburbs, especially middle class or below. Ultimately you just learn to enjoy things that wealthier or 'city' people just wouldn't find remotely interesting. This has it's benefits and it's consequences.
Personally, I'm stuck somewhere in the middle..which can suck because you aren't quite motivated to be a type A all day, everyday but you are trying to be successful in an industry where your competition is. I've seen the great things that a solid career in finance can provide and I want those, but I also look back to where I came from and realize that the material possessions I can gather with my newly acquired wealth just aren't going to bring me true happiness, mostly because I was raised to value companionship and I look forward to marrying and settling down when I find the right girl. I know people that were raised in a similar manner, but have lost all sense of direction because they are too focused on living a 'big city' life with nice condos, cars, clothes, dinners and girls and end up having a total lack of substance in their life. In my opinion it's just sort of a game that you have to learn to play. If you want to date young girls and be a hot shot then you tend to adhere to a certain lifestyle, at some point you continue getting older but the girls you are trying to date aren't. Eventually these encounters become less fulfilling (this comes at different points for different people) and you try to start dating older girls that are looking for more than just a one night stand. Some people have a rough time adapting, or in smaller 'big' cities, sometimes your reputation catches up and if your social circle is small enough, you can quickly deplete your pool of candidates because the girls that know who you are aren't interested in your pseudo Playboy lifestyle. For some people that isn't a big deal but for others, typically those raised in smaller towns or in the burbs of bigger cities it can be. In one case, a person I know is struggling with a very serious drug addiction because he is quite literally addicted to the attention of the opposite sex but craves more stable relationships and wants to settle down but you can't have both. Stuff like that takes time and some luck and in his case, there hasn't been either, so he runs to drugs. Clearly this is a very atypical situation, but the point is, he is unhappy because he is living by someone else's ideals.
At the end of the day I think you should follow your dreams when it comes to a career, but not blindly. If you are the type of person that values serious relationships, don't pass one up because you feel you are too young or not ready to settle down...those things have a way of working themselves out. I think in some cases you can have your cake and eat it too. My hope is to meet someone worthwhile in the next few years and to have the opportunity to spend some of the money I've earned before things get to the ever looming "family" stage where kids start growing out of the walls and your life becomes consumed with daycare and recitals and soccer games, etc.
I think most people can find a balance between the two extremes if they look hard enough and, in my opinion, that is were you start to feel like your life has come together.
Regards
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