Big 4 vs. Corporate Finance - exit opp?
Hi all!
Finishing up year 1 in the audit practice of a big 4. I work on one of my firm's largest clients in the financial services industry in SF. While I'm not the biggest fan of auditing (who is..), I'm fortunate enough to at least work on some of the more interesting areas on my client (Capital Markets, OTTI, Treasury).
Post-busy season headhunting emails are starting to arrive, including a FP&A position at a Fortune 100 company - I'm interested in the industry, perks are great, hours are less.....
My goal is NOT to end up in an accounting position long-term. I'd eventually like to switch to something more finance-related, and perhaps the other half of my brain at some point... that would be nice. :)
Thoughts? Do I stick it out? Is FP&A a dead-end or are there learning opportunities there?
What's worth my time? My main concern is that I'll be challenged -- I don't feel like I'm getting that at all at a Big 4 environment. I signed when the economy was down and feel like I'm significantly more intelligent than a number of people I work with.
Estimated CPA certification/licensure completion: August 2011.
I know a few people
I know a few people considering a similar transition, however definitely stay until August to get your CPA (and minimal bonus) in case you need to fall back on it. Auditing is a dead end road, and I still don't understand how the Big 4 sell it so well; considering the hours and menial tasks the pay/experience is garbage.
Can you post a description of the FP&A role, and do you know the group dynamics (i.e. do you report to a Sr. Analyst or Director of FP&A)?
My buddy started in a FP&A role, reported directly to the FP&A Director and had significant exposure to the CFO. Because the team was small he put together all the analysis for strategic decisions, and was able to sell his story for IB (boutique/MM) interviews.
This example may be an outlier, however I think the FP&A job would be a much better experience. You also won't be working 70hrs a week for $50k. Worst case scenario you end up liking the position and make decent money only working 50hrs a week.
"and I still don't understand
"and I still don't understand how the Big 4 sell it so well; considering the hours and menial tasks the pay/experience is garbage."
Do you even know what you're talking about? Stop talking out of your ass. I don't know why everyone hates on accounting here. It's not the most exciting or awesome career relatively speaking, but its not exactly garbage either.
I agree that audit is dead end and over the long run you should switch over to something more interesting that also pays you better. However, I would hardly say that the experience is garbage. You learn the technical aspects of accounting and over-time you'll be given a lot more responsibilities as far as the work goes. Obviously, during the first year you're only doing menial work.Even in investment banking, you're not really doing intellectually stimulating work during your first year. So just stick it out until you get your CPA and you'll have a lot more doors open for you (unless of course you like that FP&A job and the company, and want to make the switch now). Just my two cents.
^It's because accounting
^It's because accounting doesn't have teh prestige and they can't post on here saying, "you jelly of my megafund exit opportunity status?" or ask whether KKR or TPG is a better PE fund if they work at the Big 4.
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Thank you so much for the
Thank you so much for the fast responses!
Of course, I definitely understand the importance/benefit of finishing up my CPA; however, from the research I've done, as long as I'm working under someone in this new position with their CPA, they can still sign off on it -- I don't need be working in an accounting firm per se to get this experience. Of course -- this is something I plan on investigating fully throughout the hiring process before making a decision.
The recruiter actually presented me with a number of FP&A positions -- I've listed the description for one below:
---
Responsibilities:
Create and present monthly financial reporting packages to senior management, providing insights and foresights into XXX’s emerging businesses.
Coordinate global processes for budgeting and planning activities. Collaborate with cross-functional teams to structure and execute strategic business initiatives, providing analytical insight and performance analysis.
Act as liaison between the core Finance team and the group or department being supported, assisting with issues related to forecasting, planning, resource prioritization and business profitability.
Collaborate with other finance teams to analyse revenue trends on emerging businesses, and benchmark them against the industry trends.
Requirements:
BA/BS in Finance or Accounting preferred, Postgraduate degree and/or CPA/CMA a plus.
At least 2 years of solid financial experience, preferably in a corporate FP&A role.
Excellent analytical and modeling skills, FP&A and/or project management experience. Superior problem solving and analysis skills, combined with impeccable business judgment and ability to communicate with management team.
Demonstrated top quartile performance in prior roles, with increasing levels of responsibility and independence.
Extensive knowledge of Excel and PowerPoint. Knowledge of Hyperion a plus.
---
I want a job where I'm fully engaged and challenged. Hours aren't a problem (as mentioned previously, I'm on one of the largest clients in our office here -- 80 hours work weeks weren't an issue for me) -- my main concern is that I feel challenged and am excited to go to work. I used to be passionate about my career; eager to return to that place...
Also, any thoughts on if it will be a problem I don't have experience modeling? (Since the days of college finance). I'm an extremely fast learner and anticipate no problems catching on quickly.
Thanks again for your thoughts. :)
Haha. Caring about prestige
Haha. Caring about prestige gets old after a while. To be honest, no one cares if you're some hotshot at a mega PE firm or a Big 4 accountant. It's important that you like what you do wherever you are and still afford a decent lifestyle while you're at it.
With that said, it seems like you (sh812) really find that job interesting and don't think audit is your cup of tea anymore. So make the switch if you think its the right decision for you right now. I don't think it will be hard to get involved in the finance side of things at the Fortune 100 once you get promoted or stick around long enough (FP&A is still accounting at the junior level). If you stuck around at the Big 4 for a few more years, you could transition to a controller type of role, or transfer to another Big 4 and work in their advisory practice (not ERS, but transactions, which is more finance related). Either way, you'll have plenty of options available to you, so don't listen to those that say your audit experience is garbage and won't get you anywhere else career wise.
I worked in FP&A for the
I worked in FP&A for the largest global company in its sector for 1.5 years and was able to switch to AM easily (i had opportunities to do ER but I prefered this one for many reasons). If you do switch to FP&A and as you said there are maany roles offered to you, my advice would be to avoid the role with the routine accounting shit like closing the books, reconciling accounts, etc. Rather than that, try to chose the role that is more involved in developing the annual budget and the long-term strategic plan. Those were my roles and let me tell you, it is very rewarding and it opens tons of doors.
Even tho audit is boring, you may wanna consider sticking it out, get your CPA and get a role in advisory....that is the most fun part in the big 4s (i havent worked in them but i have a couple of friends that do)
"Thoughts? Do I stick it out?
"Thoughts? Do I stick it out? Is FP&A a dead-end or are there learning opportunities there?"
As someone who works in FP&A in an equivalent company to which you are searching (And it's not hard to find the job posting), I would say...it depends...
It depends:
- On the structure of the company and the company culture
- How patient you are at climbing the ladder
- How well you perform & innovate your role
On the bright side, FP&A (like auditing) will never have a lack of demand, it uses skills which are transferable across all businesses, and it allows you to interact with different segments within the business.
Send me a PM if you have more questions.
"auditing is a dead end road,
"auditing is a dead end road, and I still don't understand how the Big 4 sell it so well; considering the hours and menial tasks the pay/experience is garbage."
everything is relative. i get that accounting is considered an inferior career relative to more prestigous, better paying front-office finance and consulting jobs, but your assessment of public accounting could not be more wrong. i have been working in big 4 audit since 2009 and will be promoted to senior in the fall. my first year total comp was $64K (including sign-on and cpa bonus) and my second year total comp will be around $60K in the end. My average # of hours worked per week since joining the firm has been around 45. I have taken roughly 7-8 full weeks of vacation since starting, not including 10 holidays a year. There are menial tasks in the beginning (are there not in finance??), but on a daily basis I have direct face-to-face interaction with my client's managers, controller, and CFO, and can 100% say I have learned more about GAAP, auditing, and my client's industries than you can imagine. Next year I will be directly repsonsible for running jobs and supervising staff. The recruiters offering me better paying jobs with even better work/life balance think my experience is pretty good.
i'm not saying it's the best job, but to shit on it without knowing the facts is dumb. like i said, it's all relative. i think a lot of people (especially on here) don't understand the reality the overwhelming majority of americans face. there are people who would kill to be making $60K a year to provide for their family, let alone be making that at 23 y/o.
to the OP: i would try to stick it out at least one more year. the job gets better as your move up. your 2nd year should be much better than your first. also, if your end goal is fp&a, you would be better off making the jump down the road at the senior or manager level. the raises from public to private get much better at those levels. i have a few friends who work in fp&a roles at F100 companies, and although they don't mind their jobs, exciting or challenging is never a way they describe it.
As I mentioned earlier and
As I mentioned earlier and yellow ranger reiterated, if you transition to FP&A make sure it is more focused on strategy / analysis of business units / revenue streams etc and not supporting the accounting department.
The job looks like a good opportunity, I would definitely consider it after you get your CPA and the bonus that comes along.
_bird_.... You are embellishing so much it is scary. I have 4 very good friends in auditing/tax here in Boston at the various Big 4, yes I understand the job. My word choice may have been a little harsh, however every single individual I know in Big 4 (including the OP) is trying to transition out of the industry, what does this say? Auditing in itself may be a great job/fit for some individuals, however those who want to move into a more front-office type position in finance (like the OP) will have more difficulty the longer they stay in auditing.
I actually went Big 4 >
I actually went Big 4 > Corporate Fin Consulting > F200 FP&A. and now I'm at the same F200 in a non-FP&A finance role.
You have gotten some very good advice on this board, but you never said what interests you or where you may want to end up. FP&A is very good experience and critical experience for many corporate finance positions. But, to some people it isn't the path they want.
Another thing that is stupid, but could set you back is title. The title of this position is SFA or something similar, correct? I would not take any position that is only titled Financial Analyst. While it shouldn't matter, it often does. If your goal is to be Director in X years, you have an extra promotion to achieve coming from FA instead of SFA. On that note, some people recommend staying in audit until you earn the Manager title, to speed up your promotional track.
PM me if you want to discuss in more detail.
BSTN05 wrote: _bird_.... You
_bird_.... You are embellishing so much it is scary. I have 4 very good friends in auditing/tax here in Boston at the various Big 4, yes I understand the job. My word choice may have been a little harsh, however every single individual I know in Big 4 (including the OP) is trying to transition out of the industry, what does this say? Auditing in itself may be a great job/fit for some individuals, however those who want to move into a more front-office type position in finance (like the OP) will have more difficulty the longer they stay in auditing.
I'm on the same page with you. I'm trying to make the same moves as your buddies and the op. It's the only reason I follow this site. Just wanted to add some perspective, and make clear that all things considered, there are much worse situations to be in relative to working in big 4 accounting. If I could land something better I would be gone tomorrow. back to the OP, if you really want to get out of accounting (as i do), start getting your things in order for a top mba program.
"My word choice may have been
"My word choice may have been a little harsh, however every single individual I know in Big 4 (including the OP) is trying to transition out of the industry, what does this say? Auditing in itself may be a great job/fit for some individuals, however those who want to move into a more front-office type position in finance (like the OP) will have more difficulty the longer they stay in auditing."
Well, you can say the same thing about individuals in banking. The majority of us want to transition out of the industry into something "better" and supposedly less stressful, such as PE or HF's. You don't go into banking intending to make a long term career out of it. Likewise, for the majority of people don't go into Big 4 Auditing intending to make a career out of it. You go in to go out, just like in banking (don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say both are equal careers as I do believe if given the opportunity between the two, go for banking). All I'm saying is that just because most people want to leave the Big 4, doesn't mean it gives you a crap experience. You work there for a few years, get the experience, and move on to a more lucrative career, just like you would in banking.
Just out of curiosity, since
Just out of curiosity, since I'm more interested in corp finance positions myself actually, if my goal is to one day become a higher up on the finance side within the company (i.e. either become VP of Finance, or possibly CFO of a division or something), what kinds of job duties should I look for to end up in those roles? Also, I'm quite interested in corp dev, and while I know they typically want M&A bank experience, do you guys know of people who went from traditional industry finance => corp dev (and yes, I've read harvardgrad's post, I'm just curious about others' experiences with this)?
Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.
Al Bundy wrote: Just out of
Just out of curiosity, since I'm more interested in corp finance positions myself actually, if my goal is to one day become a higher up on the finance side within the company (i.e. either become VP of Finance, or possibly CFO of a division or something), what kinds of job duties should I look for to end up in those roles? Also, I'm quite interested in corp dev, and while I know they typically want M&A bank experience, do you guys know of people who went from traditional industry finance => corp dev (and yes, I've read harvardgrad's post, I'm just curious about others' experiences with this)?
almost every one of the senior leaders have had significant experience in FP&A. i'm in an FP&A role now within HQ, working directly for CFO.
Al Bundy wrote: Just out of
Just out of curiosity, since I'm more interested in corp finance positions myself actually, if my goal is to one day become a higher up on the finance side within the company (i.e. either become VP of Finance, or possibly CFO of a division or something), what kinds of job duties should I look for to end up in those roles? Also, I'm quite interested in corp dev, and while I know they typically want M&A bank experience, do you guys know of people who went from traditional industry finance => corp dev (and yes, I've read harvardgrad's post, I'm just curious about others' experiences with this)?
"To Become a VP of Finance" is ridiculously broad. At some orgainzations "VP of Finance" could be in Treasury, Tax, Audit, Planning, Commercial Finance, Leasing, Manufacturing, even Strategy, etc... As you can imagine there are different experiences required for these positions. However, most people aim to be VP of Corporate Finance or a business unti or commercial function. If that is your goal some FP&A is basically a requirement.