Career Switch (consulting -> buy side)

Say you're a 28 year old management consultant (non MBB) with a CFA® charter (weird combo, right?) and looking at full time MBA programs (class of 2015). You're interested in moving into a buy side role post MBA, and you're a solid candidate on paper for top 10 MBA programs.

Questions:
1) What programs do you apply to?
2) What top ~15 schools aren't worth it? (UCLA?, Duke?, UVA?)
2) What do you do with the next year of your time? (stay in consulting / work for a non profit / find a role in middle office of big PE firm / try to find a front office role in small firm

Appreciate any thoughts

 

thanks - i've actually been able to secure interviews with a handful of small PE and VC firms (including one i'm currently talking to). I've found that AM roles are actually harder to get interviews for to date. I'm planning on applying to most of the schools you've listed (not sure about Tuck) and also Ross, Booth, Kellogg, and now considering Darden, Fuqua, and some other non top 10's.

Deloitte / Accenture is right now

 

Try to get in now into whatever front office investing role you can. 'Buyside' can mean more than one thing, what specifically do you want to do, and why?

You can't apply to that many schools in the most effective way, so I would consider choosing 1/2 reach, 2/3 target and 1/2 safety (all mean different things to different people)...ideally with 4-5 apps, 2-3 in R1 and rest in R2. If you're trying for buyside (inlcluding PE/VC/HF/AM) then I would personally rank in these buckets, with each bucket rank ordered first to last in each row:

HBS/GSB Wharton/Booth/Columbia Kellogg/Tuck/MIT/NYU Cornell/UCLA/UVA/Yale/Haas/Duke etc.

I'd say Kellogg would be in the second bucket right along with Booth (after Wharton) if you're concentrating only on PE or VC, rather than AM and/or HF. Cornell and NYU could also move higher if we're talking strictly public investing buyside.

 

Thanks for the thoughts.

I'm a value and special situations investor, and my ideal role (for now) is to work in a relatively small to mid size value HF (thus being able to take advantage of smaller opportunities and generate higher returns). I also think I would enjoy PE, and would probably target small to mid size funds... my hope is to get a great internship after my first year and get a better idea of what i want specifically.

Appreciate the thoughts on applying to fewer schools - i definitely don't want to sent out any low quality apps.

I'm thinking about using an admission consultant for my application to ONE school (whichever school on my list that has the most essays that can be leveraged for other apps) and then apply to a number of programs. i'd prefer not to send more than 5 apps but I'm really biased towards going this year and moving on with my life. Given that the acceptance rates are very low across the top 10-15 schools, I'm willing to put myself through a minor hell in order to crank out ~10 apps this season.

Any recommendations on Adcoms?

some relevant MBA admissions background: Target / Semi Target undergrad (top 10 b school) Finance, Accounting double major 3.25 cumulative GPA (3.5 Finance, 3.4 Acct) 720 GMAT 7 years WE (upon enrollment in 2013) - 3.5 years Big 4 audit, 2.5 - 3.5 years management consulting CFA charter

 

Columbia's value investing program could be a good fit. I would also strongly recommend the VC/PE/small HF route you're considering if you can land an offer. Not only will it dramatically improve your recruiting prospects out of the MBA program (otherwise, it's harder to demonstrate commitment to investing as a 'career switcher'), you might just end up at a place you like and avoid b-school altogether.

 

@ Temp - thanks, appreciate the insight. If i weren't in love with the city of Chicago, CBS would definitely be my first choice for it's value investing program. I'm currently talking to a small MM PE shop in Chicago and would love to get some time in there pre-MBA, and if things go very well, maybe pass on MBA altogether... would be a pretty awesome leap from Accenture or Deloitte management consulting, even with the CFA charter

 

I think you just need to try and find any investing role, rather than trying to bucket yourself as a "special sits" investor, especially as you have zero experience. I don't blame you, because at one point I thought of myself as a certain type of investor. Be aware that PE/deal work is pretty different than AM/HF work in terms of tasks even if big picture it should be similar.

If you do the MBA, and you really feel like the public securities investing is the way to go, then I would also recommended Columbia being your key reach. If you love Chicago, obviously include Booth as a reach. I'd put NYU and Cornell in there. Wharton is a long-shot. Maybe choose one more from the lower bucket, I personally like UCLA out of all those. I don't think you need a consultant unless you have a good amount of money to burn.

 

I know almost nothing about business school admissions. Value/Special Situations is a very narrow focus, and seems to be the kind of "it" thing now that Einhorn/Ackman/Loeb are all over the news and the macro guys are putting up mediocre returns. I would recommend on focusing on equities in general. If you've been a management consultant for awhile you understand how companies work and the audit background + CFA means you know financial statements cold. Those two things are the lion's share of analyzing stocks.

Columbia places incredibly well in that space. There are dozens and dozens of good funds in NYC that people haven't heard of but are top notch and littered with people from the AVI program. H/S/W are the obvious big guns, but those apparently are a crap shoot for admissions.

 

@IBPEHFVC - Thanks. To be clear, I'm an active special situations / value investor in terms of my personal account, but I'm not going to limit myself to this space in terms of my career (at least not yet). I'm definitely aware of the differences between PE / deal work and AM/HF work, but thanks for calling that out.

I'm curious why you categorize CBS, Booth, NYU, and Cornell as a reach... I would think those are more target, while HBS / GSB are my reach schools. I should add to the above background detail that I was a Division 1 athlete in college, and i'm expecting this and the CFA charter to augment my slighty below avg GPA.

 
Best Response

I was active in my PA in "special sits" / value as well, nothing wrong with focusing on that, it's just kind of limiting, especially with no real experience as I mentioned. The fact that you are entertaining PE leads me to believe you are not really that wed to a strategy or whatever, you just want an investing job...and that's the right attitude for you to take at this point.

On b-school: I know it might be hard to hear, but it's just my assessment. I think you have a realistic (30-50%) chance at CBS or Booth, maybe b/w reach and target, and 50-80% for NYU and Cornell. Obviously every app/person has unique things that make this very subjective, but just from what you've given. You have too much experience (too old) for H/S and probably W, your experience is in one of the traditional buckets which works against you because a) big4 audit and consulting isn't exactly top-tier (but not bad) b) you have an average GMAT, and c) a below average GPA. CFA is a non-factor in admissions. D1 athlete is a very slight positive. The bar is higher for everything when you have a typical business, demographic and/or personal background. To the extent that you have and emphasize non-typical elements, then that will increase your chances.

 

Thanks again - objective assessments of my background are quite valuable as I begin to apply to programs. I can see how CFA is largely a non-factor, but to the extent that I can tie it into my story, I think it can at least show how dedicated I've been to making this career change (though i'm not sure I want to advertise that i'm looking to make a career change in my applications, as I've heard this can be a bad strategy).

 

As some people mentioned already, it's probably best for you to spend time on trying to recruit for PE roles. If you go into an MBA program with no finance experience it's probably unlikely to come out in a buy side role. It's more likely that you'll be forced in a banking role with no clear exit opportunities.

Your time is better spend getting in touch with headhunters now and try to find a role with an operational focused PE fund.

 

I moved from consulting to buy-side a couple years ago. A couple of observations.

  1. What you did in consulting matters. A lot of funds were very interested in PE due diligence work. General strategy work is also a area of fruitful conversation (high level understanding of competitive drivers, etc). Operations work is pretty meh, process and tech consulting won't get you a call back.

If your firm has an internal hedge fund like Dean and Co or Bain Consulting supposedly do, then that's a big point in your favor.

  1. My experience has generally been that going to business school to get into a hedge fund without prior hedge fund experience is something of a crap shoot. Relatively few funds are large enough to have any sort of recruiting presence on a b school campus, you're mostly forced to go it cold.

Any sort of buy side experience, in such a situation, is preferable to consulting/non profit/whatever.

  1. Don't limit yourself too much in scope. Others have made the point, but it's worth repeating. It's difficult to know what you want from this business until you've spent some time in it.

All that said, I think your attitude is the right one and that you're probably focusing on the right things.

 

@ PennTeller - thanks for the advice. Would you (or anyone else) recommend that I do a modeling course (such as Wall Street Prep) in order to help secure a role in the near term (pre-MBA). I'm confident that my modeling skills are strong, but given my background I don't have many ways to prove it, and i'm thinking that having some online course credentials could be useful.

 
Spalding Get Your Foot Off the Boat:
@ PennTeller - thanks for the advice. Would you (or anyone else) recommend that I do a modeling course (such as Wall Street Prep) in order to help secure a role in the near term (pre-MBA). I'm confident that my modeling skills are strong, but given my background I don't have many ways to prove it, and i'm thinking that having some online course credentials could be useful.

If the only thing they're worried about are your modeling skills, then they'll give you a modeling test. I wouldn't waste the time or effort on it.

I'm surprised that you don't think your background would display strong modeling skills. What sort of consulting do you do?

 

I do a broad range, from strategy to project consulting. Prior to consulting i audited private equity funds, VC funds, and hedge funds. In that work i spent time reviewing portfolio company valuations, which is the best exposure i've had in terms of modeling. Despite that, I've taken 4-5 modeling exams in my interviewing and have prepared extensively for each of those with friends in the industry. I've received great feedback on them as well, have just been a little unfortunate in not sealing the deal yet, for lack of a deeper explanation. thanks for the thoughts - i'll save the 1k and not do the courses.

 

Re: the comment above -- "Your time is better spend getting in touch with headhunters now and try to find a role with an operational focused PE fund."

What do you suggest in terms of contacting headhunters, especially in Asia (HK/SG)? Sounds like only very niche headhunters would have a meaningful perspective. What do you recommend is a way to find them (given that Google is pretty much useless if you don't quite know the keywords you're looking for) and what kinds of questions would you ask -- "I have excellent ops experience, are there any funds hiring?"

Much appreciate any pointers!

 

I went the MBA route. I went from doing something totally unrelated to finance/investing and moved to Buyside HF. I'm not at the biggest and most recognized firm but I can worry about that later as I get more experience. At least I'm in.

 
mikebrady:
I went the MBA route. I went from doing something totally unrelated to finance/investing and moved to Buyside HF. I'm not at the biggest and most recognized firm but I can worry about that later as I get more experience. At least I'm in.

Do you mind saying which MBA program you went to? Seems to be that Columbia has the best placement in HF's

 

I'm no expert, but a MSc in Finance may increase your chances (plus it's a very interesting master IMO). London School of Economics even has a MSc in Finance & Private Equity and is sponsored by a big PE firm.

Colourful TV, colourless Life.
 

Consulting is generally a poor means of reaching the buyside. The few exceptions to this rule are if you work for MBB or a T2 with a strong PE CDD practice (only LEK and Parthenon off the top of my head). When staffed on a CDD you pretty much join the PE team and help them validate assumptions in their models. Consultants at these select firms are often recruited to bring in-house and work for the PE firm full-time.

Otherwise, you are pretty SOL when it comes to reaching the buyside from consulting. HFs and PE firms look for an investing mindset as well as strong technical financial skills, neither of which are the focus of most consulting. When there is a surplus of bankers/etc. who have built up this skill-set, it makes no sense for the buyside to recruit consultants who don't have these skills.

 

Dolores ex dolores consequuntur suscipit fugit sit quia. Dolorem voluptatem sunt ea eligendi dolor nemo. Occaecati recusandae delectus non et. Dolorem repellendus accusantium velit voluptatum libero nemo repellat consectetur.

 

Quisquam quidem tenetur qui. Consectetur perspiciatis id est dolores omnis et aperiam dolor. Possimus impedit quia id voluptatem est. Ab ea corporis nisi unde quia in. Est in ut consequuntur suscipit possimus.

Deleniti voluptas exercitationem omnis enim quia. Ea tempore ipsa quo. Ducimus rerum commodi facilis aut. At numquam quia quod et itaque. Amet ut dolores possimus qui minus.

Voluptas ex sed officia dicta repudiandae dolores ex quae. Aliquid mollitia dolorem harum deleniti provident et. Laborum numquam culpa esse et nihil velit voluptate nostrum.

Et impedit dolor eos et maxime illo nisi. Quo impedit beatae cumque rerum. Cum sint voluptas ullam a similique. Iusto eum voluptas sunt quisquam alias qui.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Point72 98.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 97.9%
  • Magnetar Capital 96.8%
  • Citadel Investment Group 95.8%
  • AQR Capital Management 94.7%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Magnetar Capital 98.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 97.8%
  • Blackstone Group 96.8%
  • Two Sigma Investments 95.7%
  • Citadel Investment Group 94.6%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • AQR Capital Management 99.0%
  • Point72 97.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 96.9%
  • Citadel Investment Group 95.8%
  • Magnetar Capital 94.8%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Portfolio Manager (9) $1,648
  • Vice President (23) $474
  • Director/MD (12) $423
  • NA (6) $322
  • 3rd+ Year Associate (24) $287
  • Manager (4) $282
  • Engineer/Quant (71) $274
  • 2nd Year Associate (30) $251
  • 1st Year Associate (73) $190
  • Analysts (225) $179
  • Intern/Summer Associate (22) $131
  • Junior Trader (5) $102
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (249) $85
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
bolo up's picture
bolo up
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”