6 Free Financial Modeling Lessons...and More.

(Human, 13,467

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 12:35pm

Nothing but an ever growing power grab. Once you depend on the government for something you vote for whomever will continue providing for you.

Sad how much of a nanny state this once great country has become. Nothing but a downward slide now.

I heard it on NPR on the way

Whgm45

(Orangutan, 299

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 1:00pm

I heard it on NPR on the way back from work this week. The posts above me got it exactly right, this is a campaign to get more people reliant on government aid in a bid to continue these social services. Once you start sucking off the government teat it's difficult to wean yourself off.

I have seen a lot of

IlliniProgrammer

(Almost Human, 9,177

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 1:08pm

I have seen a lot of assertions, but I haven't seen any cases to make points.

Obama is to the right of Jimmy Carter and is less divisive than Bill Clinton.

But the electorate- both sides- is more polarized today. People believe 35% marginal tax rates are communism while others believe 90% marginal tax rates are normal and healthy capitalism.

Let's be worthy of free speech and understand that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Come up with original talking points and original research, and present them.

Work hard, play hard.

-1

As usual, illini is the voice

(Gorilla, 509

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 1:53pm

As usual, illini is the voice of reason. Platitudes and diatribes don't make for healthy political debate, neither does rage. I'm so sick of "conservatives" on this site quoting fox news and acting like they've made the most insightful conclusions the internet has ever seen.

If my "diatribe" is false,

Whgm45

(Orangutan, 299

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 2:36pm

If my "diatribe" is false, then refute it! Notice that like-minded people tend to congregate. This isn't a political forum, but people in finance lean towards the conservative side. If you disagree that social services breed dependence and blind political loyalty, then tell me why I'm wrong.

Nobody is calling your

IlliniProgrammer

(Almost Human, 9,177

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 2:44pm

Nobody is calling your diatribe false. We're saying it is lacking in facts, information, and substance. Ok, you're angry at Obama. We already know. So tell us something new.

The goal of food stamps is generally to keep people from going hungry. The goverrnment also has a lot of programs to get people OFF of food stamps, too. The fact that we have programs to REDUCE and MITIGATE the size of the welfare state is the reason we're *not* turning into Rome.

Work hard, play hard.

I don't even know what the

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/27/sessions-foo...

(Human, 13,467

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 2:54pm

I don't even know what the fact that food stamps = dependence is debated. The budget for food stamps has far outgrown population levels or unemployment.

What I find funny is that obesity, unhealthy diets, diabetes, etc, are all growing far faster than normal in lower income families. At the same time we are rapidly expanding food stamps. Medicaid, health insurance for the poor, is growing year after year, accelerating when Obamacare gets fully implemented.

https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-S...

So you have the government providing more and more food money for the poor, the poor eating more and more unhealthy and medical care for the poor increasing and increase.

Sounds like a vicious circle to me.

And lets be honest, the poor are growing as a voting block because

1) Automation and mechanization
2) We are in an information/service economy
3) Outsources labor
4) Higher than replacement rate birth rates
5) Illegal and legal immigration

So you have a fast growing, poor population, that is increasingly depending on the government for every facet of their life and one party pushing to expand these programs. I wonder why??

http://www.historycentral.com/elections/12008/exit...

Now I 100% support the Democrats in pandering and buying votes. Republicans do the same thing. But how about we stop talking about giving a shit about these people and realize this is simply buying votes, which it is.

And buying is a misnomer since ~50% of the budget is funded through borrowing, at historic and unsustainable lows I might add.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/2010/09/12/news/eco...

So right now we are paying ~6% of our annual budget on debt service costs. We are not decreasing our national debt, but only increasing it. As rates rise so will the interest on that debt.

And we will have to pay for this somehow, through increased borrowing or increased taxes.

Lets assume borrowing hits a wall sometime. We will have to increase taxes, which will be tough since 50% pay nothing now and I even if you jacked the top 1%'s income you can't fill the gap, so you will have to tax the middle class = lost elections. You can cut spending, which is feasible, mainly defense, but good luck with that and frankly, social programs will eventually be unfundable even if defense is a fraction of what it costs now.

2010 for example. Suppose defense was ZERO. We would still have a $766MM deficit.

So how about we talk about pure fiscal issues and stop pretending that this is about helping anyone, which it isn't.

TNA: Nothing but an ever

mfoste1

(Gorilla, 602

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 2:58pm

TNA:

Nothing but an ever growing power grab. Once you depend on the government for something you vote for whomever will continue providing for you.

Sad how much of a nanny state this once great country has become. Nothing but a downward slide now.

Completely agree TNA

And I also don't understand

(Human, 13,467

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 3:04pm

And I also don't understand how people think downward slide is hyperbole. If Medicare/caid, SSI, Welfare, etc were run effectively and efficiently I would 100% support government healthcare. But the government is a horrible manager, something I think libs and cons can agree on.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that politicians answer to people who do not have skin in the game. Politicans want to be elected and will do what their voters want, regardless of whether their voters are paying into a system they want expanded.

Sad thing is this is just going to fuck the people it is intended to help. We borrow instead of taxing, because money = power and politicians play the people who are too dumb to realize this. So we borrow to pay for programs to get votes, until we can't borrow anymore and then we come crashing down.

And who gets hurt? The people who are uneducated, immobile and have no savings. Greater pain for short term pleasure.

(No subject)

Abdel

(Neanderthal, 2,064

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 3:11pm

Lol obesity is growing among

(Gorilla, 509

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 3:18pm

Lol obesity is growing among the poor not because of how much food they eat but because of the type of food they eat which is mostly low-cost chemical crap. If anything capitalism is the reason for the growing obesity epidemic in the lower class (they can't afford to buy organic) so please don't attempt to imply that increased use of food stamps is the reason for the growing obesity in this nation, its the gap in cost between fresh and processed foods. I have yet to meet an individual who is happy to be on food stamps and ok with dependence, if this were the case more people would be on it and the Obama administration wouldn't have to advertise it so people could feed their kids. One thing I will say is I respect ANT's second and third response more than the garbage/platitudes he posted initially.

BigBucks: Lol obesity is

(Human, 13,467

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 3:23pm

BigBucks:

People used to starve to death, now they just complain about the quality of their food. Either way, my post was not to link food stamps with unhealthy diets, but to illustrate how the government gives without string attached which ultimately costs more in the long run.

Furthermore, please back up any of your statements. This was never a debate about people being "happy", whatever that might mean. People become dependent and they vote for those who guarantee these things.

It is a basic human response. We can see it in retirees reacting to anything dealing with social security, home owners reacting to any attempt to eliminate their mortgage interest deductions, etc. The only issue is the poor is a growing voting blow while homeowners are not.

And before you crap on any response you should step your game up a notch or two.

BigBucks: Lol obesity is

adapt or die

(King Kong, 1,229

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 3:44pm

BigBucks:

Lol obesity is growing among the poor not because of how much food they eat but because of the type of food they eat which is mostly low-cost chemical crap.

I don't think you understand the concept of eating over your caloric maintenance level. While cheap food is often more dense in calories, these obese morons are still over-eating and have no pride in their appearance.

If the government truly cared

(Human, 13,467

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 3:50pm

adapt or die: BigBucks: Lol

IlliniProgrammer

(Almost Human, 9,177

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 3:56pm

Work hard, play hard.

Its obviously not as simple

(Gorilla, 509

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 4:02pm

BigBucks: Its obviously not

(Human, 13,467

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 4:13pm

I just went to the grocery

wadtk

(Senior Baboon, 239

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 4:14pm

wadtk: I just went to the

(Human, 13,467

Points)

on 6/29/12 at 4:19pm

Good response ANT, time is