Help! MS in Real Estate Programs Decisions!
Age: 33
Goal: Career Changer from IT into Real Estate Development or Finance/Investments
Education: BSBA and MBA
Desired Work Location: Eventually Los Angeles since I currently live in the area
Admitted to the Following MS in Real Estate Programs Fall 2010
Johns Hopkins Full-Time Program - 1 year
NYU - 1.5 to 2 years
Cornell - 2 years, but waitlisted and accepted for Fall 2011
Georgetown - Still Waiting
Maryland, College Park - Still Waiting
For some reason, I am leaning toward Johns Hopkins because I will be done in 1 year plus it includes an internship. NYU is another option, but the program is very big with about 400 students.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
this will be your second Masters?
Yes.
I think Cornell's program is one of the best. Two years is a long time though. I would start contacting industry people and asking their opinions. What type of network do you have with your UG and MBA?
Yes, two years (actually three in my case due to the deferred admission) is long. Both of my UG and MBA networks are weak. Tried this route, but no hits (went to socials, linkedin, emailed, etc). Thanks for the posts so far.
i 've been in your shoes, i breifly considered gatting an msre myself. ultimately, i decided against it.
first of all...youre 33, you have an mba and you most likely have over 10 yrs work exp. but you want to go back to school and start all over in a new field? unless your current situation is really bad, i don't see any reason for you to make such a drastic life change. this is going to affect your life, i am sure you realize this much. do you have kid? debt from mba and ugrad? wife? any attachements? i am not trying to discourage you, just making sure you thought all these things through.
anyway, i will get back on track. when i was researching msre programs, the only 4 i considered were mit, usc, cornell and columbia (your work exp doesnt qualify you for admissions into mit or usc, but you probabaly already realized that). i only considered these 4 becuase during my due dilligence i uncovered that these programs were generally the most compehensive, well-known, and served large metro cre mkts (LA and NYC are large mkts with lots of opportuniy, which translates into more jobs).
my opinion:
cornell: i knocked off cornell off my list pretty quickly. the fact that it takes 2 yrs to complete the degree is a disadvantage, in my opinion. the cre business is not exactly rocket science and 2 yrs is overkill. also, their summer internships dont tend to be anything specatucalur, but i could be wrong. tuiton is like 10k more than other schools. BUT i think this is the best school on your list. i recomend you go there, BUT be aware of the fact that your job prospects may not be as great if you were to work in LA, especially since you wil be competing against usc mba/msred and ucla mba grads. you might want to move to NYC or some other growth metro in the east.
nyu: i didnt even consider nyu bc i have heard nothing but bad things about its program, but i checked it out anyway. its not prestigious and its easy to get into. if you dont plan on working working in nyc, i would knix it off your list.
i dont know anything about the other programs you mentioned so i wont comment.
somethin else i think you should consider is how abhorrenet the job mkt is for cre guys. to give you an idea, a recruiter told me that i am routinely competing for jobs with other mba candidates. not top 50, but top 20 guys. why? bc i have 2 yrs of relevant exp, and those guys are willing to level down their salary to break into what they believe will be a perpetually lucrative industry. and the jobs i have been targeting dont pay well, only about 65-80k base. cre isnt what it use to be, just keep that in mind.
i know some of the professors who teach in the NYU program and was pretty impressed with them. i think it may be a good move although i agree that it probably has the biggest value in manhattan. cornell certainly is the most prestigious program in RE. 2yrs is a drawback but if u can get in i think its an awesome move and you wont have any problems finding a job afterwards. i know a grad of the program who is currently very high up the ranks at one of the biggest asset management companies in the country and she is very happy with what the learned/networked at cornell.
What do you guys think of Columbia and MIT ?
check this out, its a break down of the top programs:
http://www.usc.edu/schools/sppd/private/Real_Estate_Programs_Comparison…
columbia is an oddball program, i think bc its administered by their architecture school. columbia is a legit institution, but the people i talked to who were affiliated with the program were goofy, including faculty and staff. i know it sounds weird, but talk to them and see for yourself. the program is very design and development focused, but lacks analytical rigor. on paper, the curriculum doesnt look challenging. if you want to be a developer in nyc, this would the program to pick. BUT new development is non-existant and it will stay that way for a while.
mit is the exact opposite of columbia, but on steriods. extremely analytically focused, probably has something to do with the academic attitude of mit as an institution. in my opinion, its too comprehensive. you could look at that as a good thing, but the cre business isnt complicated. they try to make it complicated. i think this program is best suited for guys who want to break into the sexier fields of real estate, like re ibanking, structured finance, or any other finance-focused real estate career track. BUT those jobs were also hit the hardest.
in my opinion - and i realize my opinion is unsolicited and obviously biased - is that usc has the best program. the curriculum is balanced, the students tend to be hi-quality, the administratuon/faculty is kickass, and the network is second to none in LA. lots of trojans in the los angeles cre business. saturday tailgate is a big ass networking event with a lot of beer. BUT usc isnt exactly a sexy brand outside of california, especially in contrast to columbia and mit.
I develop real estate with my own firm/money and finance apartments in my day job at a top commerical bank. I am very familiar with CRE and the people in it. I don't think an academic program will be very value adding for the student. Real estate is all, all a thousand times all about contacts and work experience and ZERO about education beyond having a basic college degree. Some development gigs--and there are VERY few of them--will look for MBA degree holders and real estate PE might require an MBA. But those jobs are so few and far between that it's not worth structuring a career move around it because you aren't getting those jobs as a career switcher. There is way too much experienced talent on the sideline. Also, most CRE jobs pay like absolute sht. In fact, the overwhelming majority pay like sht. The big money CRE gigs mostly center around PE and brokerage and the ancillary jobs surrounding those two areas.
My advice: the only real estate academic program you should do is one that you do part-time while working (preferably in the industry) and one that you can pay for in cash and not through loans.
this is pretty harsh, but also pretty much right.
also, one small thing i would like to point is programs like mit and usc will probably not take you unless you have directly relevant work experience in cre. so their networks tend to be very valuable.
and i don't think you can say that msre program don't add value. sometimes that kind talent is rare and desperately needed, with or without work exp.
By value adding, I meant from a career switching stand point. I'm sure the knowledge is certainly very relevant and helpful. And if your firm will pay for you to go part-time (which mine has offered), then definitely go. But don't go into debt and take a year off from work believing that a real estate masters is going to help you land a great new job in CRE.
agreed
Really, thank you for the honest feedback. I need it and definitely helps making a decision. Going part-time is difficult, but possibly doable. The issue is that the schools I listed in my original post are all not within commuting distance. In fact, all are out of state. This then makes NYU, JHU, UMD, and Georgetown as stronger options as all offer part-time programs. But then, I would need to get myself out there and...
Does this strategy make sense? Maybe, I would consider it.
JHU is interesting because it's 1 year plus an internship. I spoke with a couple of 2010 alumni and the director of the program, and placement has been very good. Now, mind you the positions are not the highest paid, but most were in development with career growth ops.
Thoughts? Thank you for taking the time to post your responses.
I guess if you really want to switch careers, it's probably one of the the only ways to do it, but I'm not really sure what you'd be trying to accomplish. The money is probably equally as bad/good in IT as it is in CRE for the most part, unless you land a job in private equity, are a top commercial loan originator or are a broker, none of which would require (or want) someone with an MS in real estate.
With all my knowledge, skills and ability in the industry and my location in the best real estate market in the nation (D.C.), I'm interviewing for a job right now that pays pretty darn well but is extraordinarily competitive to get and only pays about as well as a mid-level federal bureaucrat in D.C. I just don't want you to have any expectations (delusions?) of some sort of great career in commercial real estate unless you are willing to not work for a salary--it's the originators and brokers who make real money, and none of them take salaries. And there are literally hundreds of candidates (with work experience) for each good job. And we're talking about Washington, D.C.!
well, basically...ya, you're older. you're 33 with an mba. do you have a plan post grad school? b/c i doubt you will get a job that pays better than what you're doing. unless what you're doing really sucks.
but in the end, its up to you.
"My advice: the only real estate academic program you should do is one that you do part-time while working (preferably in the industry) and one that you can pay for in cash and not through loans." I think this advise is on target. Thank you!
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