Investment Banking: New York vs. Hong Kong / Singapore
Wall Street has, for a long time, been considered the gold standard for IB. Recent developments (err... underdevelopments) of the US economy, however, have caused speculation that the central hub for future finance lies outside the US (with a lot of people betting on London).
I'm interested in comparing New York to Asia (Ex-Japan).
With 4 of the 5 fastest growing economies situated in Asia, I can only imagine that the banking industry of the region will follow a parallel boom. It's been a very very long time since the US has seen double digit economic growth. On the other hand, China still needs to increase its economy 700% to even catch up to the US. Naturally, there is a lot of development needed (but, in turn, also allows a lot of room for development -- unlike the stale market of the States). I strongly believe that it will take at least 1 year for the current effects of the credit crunch to subside, and definitely more than 1 year if the banking industry is to recover to the level it was at before the meltdown. Because of current conditions (the USD is weaker than the CAD! Gasp!) it seems like a perfect time to look for opportunities outside the States.
How does New York compare to Hong Kong in terms of:
1. What do you think the tradeoffs are between current opportunities in the two regions? I am asking in terms of a.) compensation b.) training and transferable skills c.) interesting work and project exposure d.) exit opportunities (including bschool, lateral transfers, geographic transfers, and industry transfers - PE, etc.)
2. How will the comparison between the two regions look in 2 years? 5 years?
3. What is the current US perception of banking in Asia? Is it still considered inferior to Wall Street?
It's a very different
It's a very different beast.
I'm always surprised that so much interest in HK. Yes, it has a lot of direct flow from China but it is still very inward. Nepotism is rife as the market hasn't really opened as yet. I'm not sure skills from NYC would be transferable in a true sense.
A lot of the deals getting done are still done internationally; Sydney, London and Japan. Even still, it is a very different market.
I would say London and Singapore would be a lot more hospitable.
If we include my initial
If we rephrase my initial questions to include all of Asia Ex-Japan (I'm primarily interested in both HK and SG anyway), how would this mold your opinion?
I'm particularly interested in:
What are the exit opportunities coming out of HK or Singapore versus coming out of NY (primarily, bschool opportunities)?
What is the current US perception of banking in Asia? Is it still considered inferior to Wall Street?
I am from HK and I don't
I am from HK and I don't think USA is hospitable to Asians like me also. What I notice is that ENGLISH is the only skill that counts in the US; all other skills are not important to US employers at all. I am a college senior and have been rejected by many local employers after first round interviews. The only skill that I don't have relative to local kids is just the ability to speak English like a native. I have a 740 SAT verbal score so I won't admit I'm bad at English considering I'm in the top 1% percentile.
When I was interning in HK and China during summers, I met a few Chinese kids who grew up in the US or were educated in international schools and couldn't speak Cantonese nor Mandarin at all. I mean, it's hard to imagine how they got in. The ability to speak English well enough is important in HK, but surely not as important as Cantonese or Mandarin. English is used mostly when HKers talk to other Asians who don't speak Chinese. As you guys may know, 99% of Asians that you see in Asia are not native speakers of English. So Americans should not have an any stratospheric expectations of our English skills. When I was young, I didn't understand why I had to learn English. At that time, we were under British ruling and my school even didn't teach Mandarin. Now that I've grown up, I realize how unimportant English is for most of the jobs in Hong Kong or China.
No offense.
That rant doesn't really
That rant doesn't really address anything in my initial question...
Anybody else?
Overall, New York is much
Overall, New York is much more prestigious than anywhere else in the world. It is the headquarters for almost all of the top investment banks and consider the mecca of the business world. That being said, I think your experience as an analyst also depends on what kind of deals you get the opportunity to work on. If you worked as an analyst these past 2-3 years in China, the ability to write down that you have worked on some of the largest IPOs definitely sets you apart from some of the New York analysts.
Personally, the only reason why I wouldn't want to work in Asia is because of the network that you establish overseas will be a lot less opportunistic than in the US. Coming out after 2-3 years as an analyst, I think the best opportunities will be from the people that you get to know, not completely contingent on the location written on your resume.
I had the exact same
I had the exact same dilemma. I interned at a BB in HK this summer and received an offer. I was contemplating of doing U.S. recruitment again but eventually decided to go back to HK. I'm Asian American in the long term I want to settle down in the U.S., but going back to Asia right now is a trade-off instead of a sacrifice. The analyst programs in NYC are more structured and you will be focusing a lot on builing models. The exposure you'll receive to top management is somewhat limited and there are just so many analysts just like you. In Asia (HK), however, I think there's a good balance between the traditional analyst work and traveling and interaction with VP's and above. I also think it's easier to stand out in Asia especially if you are well-spoken and willing to take initiatives. Go spend a few years in Asia, if you are a top performer, your bank should be willing to send you back to the U.S. or to Europe upon request.
hey estalol, which BB are
hey estalol, which BB are you joining FT?
Albatross and
Albatross and estalol,
Thanks, both posts were extremely helpful. Not sure if either of you can speak to this, but, if so, please do:
There is obviously a very stark trade-off between the prestige of NYC and the deal involvement of Asia. How will this factor in to HBS admissions? Speaking about a large deal that you were intimately involved in would definitely bolster the strength of your essays - is this enough to overcome the difference in perception between the two locations?
(I would assume that either position would be a sufficient launching pad to Wharton or Chicago and I know that Stanford dislikes ibankers in general -- with Asia being more 'unique', thus probably more desirable for Stanford -- but I'm especially curious about HBS.)
From what I hear, HBS is in
From what I hear, HBS is in a league of its own when it comes to admissions. You almost certainly need some sort of higher authority recommendation on top of perfect scores and an amazing resume. I know a close friend who told me that a girl he knew who came from a smaller liberal arts school and work experience as a translator for 8 years got in... the thing is, she was the official translator working under Zhu Rongji, the Premier of the State Council for China. (Kind of like Alan Greenspan writing you a personalized rec letter)
I spoke with a comical guy a
I spoke with a comical guy a little while back (HBS, GS, Bain alum) who told me that six types of people get into HBS:
1. Your last name is Kennedy, Archibald, or Romney
2. You get a recommendation from a Kennedy, Archibald, or Romney stating that you will be a future leader of the world.
3. You worked at GS/MS or M/B/B.
4. You went to a impoverished country became tribal leader of a small village.
5. Your dad is the CEO of a fortune company
6. I forget what the sixth was...
Unfortunately M/B/B have already rejected me and GS/MS won't even look at me. I'm considering between JPM and Lehman, but GS/MS is just in a different league...
To get back on topic,
To get back on topic, however, I'm curious: Do people think the "prestige" factor of the regions will change in the near future? (2 years, 5 years, 10 years?) Does the recent credit crunch (as well as the not-so-recent devolutions of the US economy) tarnish the allure of New York, and will the emerging economies of China, India, Russia, Vietnam, the four tigers, etc. cast a glimmer of mysticism upon Asia banking in the future?
Honestly, I applaud what you
Honestly, I applaud what you are trying to do but I think your eyes are a little too wide at the moment.
Asking if IB in HK/SG will get you in to HBS is a question that no-one can answer. Think a little shorter term. Will you enjoy being in a developing economy? The structure of banking in the Asian countries is very different to larger financial centres around the world. Speak to people that have been there, alumni etc.
Hmm..
I've never worked in HK or Singapore, but would you characterize those as developing economies? I would consider China and India as developing, but HK and Singapore should be pretty developed, I would imagine.
I don't consider HK or Sg
I don't consider HK or Sg "developing countries"... Hong Kong's cost of living is 5th highest in the world. Singapore's is 14th highest. By comparison, New York is only 15th highest.
I ask for Wall St's perception of Asia Ex-Japan because I have no idea what people think of business in the area. I definitely don't want to box myself in to what will eventually become a dead-end. Basically, I need to make sure that IBD is actually considered at least as highly as IBD here (and not a situation where IBD Asia is comparable to Ops US and I would forever be stuck...)
ETA: This concerns me particularly because of the stark differences in perception of the consulting industry across waters. While MC is considered very prestigious here (and I would say that M/B/B even outshines all the non-GS/MS BB banks), the same sentiments definitely don't exist outside of our borders. In Europe, even M/B/B is considered extremely inferior to any ibank. Consulting might as well be a blue-collar job in Asia, for all the respect that consultants get there.
What the heck are you
What the heck are you talking about? "Blue collar job"? Having actually consulted for MBB on a project in the region, I can flat out say that you are 100% wrong. All the kids from IIT/IIM in India and the top universities in China want to get into MBB. Ditto for Europe.
I am judging based on
Considered sub-par by who?
I've already spoken with
having worked in MBB in both
silly silly.
Obviously "blue collar" was
man, you're assuming these
By the way, when I was