How to go about searching for a job while employed
How do you go about searching for a job while being employed? I recently graduated and I'm working in a role that turned out to be nothing like what I expected. In short, it is a dead end and I am trying to get out ASAP.
I have given thought into reaching out into my network and applying through online applications, but have been hesitant because I do not want to come off as a "job hopper," since I just graduated. I'd like to move to IBD and feel comfortable with standard interview questions and the work (I've had several internships in IB).
I would really appreciate the advice of those who have navigated the process on here. How do you contact/search and when do you know is the appropriate time.
I'm in exactly the same position. Would appreiciate guidance too.
One this I can add though is to keep your job search on the down low. My boss found out through the grapevine that is the market that I networked with a banker and from that questioned my commitment. Even though I want to find something else doesn't mean I'll be able to, and so need to keep my current bridges fully intact.
Harry Potter has an invisibility cloak and I hear he's loaning it.
I don't work on the street. I hear it's a small world once you get in. What I can say, is to practice discretion.
Make sure you are calling in sick at least once or twice a year so you don't look obvious being "sick" when you are at an interview for the day. Also, use linkedin to look at the people and the company you are sending your resume to. Do they have connections to your boss or firm? If they do, there's a solid chance (assuming you're at a smaller firm) that your director will get wind of you applying around.
At that point, all you can do is accept it. Your employers know you won't work for them for the next 30 years. They realize that if you're qualified and a hard, motivated worker, you're going to be moving around advancing your career. It may be a good thing if they find out. Use it to start a conversation (constructively) about things that may be causing you to look around in the first place.
To the OP, I came into my firm being sold a bill of goods that didn't end up 100% true. I worked my ass off, proved myself by doing the work and used my skills/motivation as leverage to get much more meaningful work. Though I'm starting a new gig at a much better place in November, at least I have interesting projects to do in the meantime.
Thought I'd revive this.
Is there a professional way of letting contacts, which you've made through your current job, know that you're looking for something different / new job without coming across as bad-mouthing your current firm, which is in turn one of their clients...?
To me it's unprofessional, thoughts?
Recruiting while employed (Originally Posted: 03/12/2016)
Can the people who have been through this process shed some light on the following: - Inquiring about openings with your existing contacts. This is a very small industry and everyone tends to know each other. Is it safe to ask your contacts if their teams have openings, or is it best to stick with headhunters? - Should you limit the number of headhunters you speak with? - How do you open up enough time for interviews? I'd assume many of us in banking or PE are in the same boat in terms of minimal vacation days. - What to answer when recruiters ask for your current all-in comp? Is there some sort of strategy in this (i.e. not telling them, or only telling them all-in vs. base)? - Can speaking with headhunters ever come back to haunt you (current employer finding out)?
Thanks.
I recently moved from a REIT to REPE, so I'll try to answer these questions with that recent experience in mind.
a. ... is reputable within their current firm. If an opportunity does arise, you want to ensure their opinion is valued internally. b. ... "likes" you. You need to be able to identify the connections in your network that will advocate on your behalf. While seemingly obvious, I have numerous examples of where old peers that were not well liked attempt to connect, looking for new opportunities. c. ... are trust worthy. More or less, everyone has a level of professionalism where they aren't going to go to your current employer and let them know you are looking for new opportunities. It is sort of an unspoken rule. However, this connects with b., as peers will talk one on one behind the scenes.
I would look to leverage your network versus relying on head hunters, for a variety of reasons. Head hunters are in the position to sell you an opportunity based on the information you have given them. Whether or not what they sell aligns with what you want is another story. They are trying to get paid at the end of the day, which necessitates them placing you into a new role.
I scheduled off hour (early AM) or lunch hour phone interviews. I was honest with my limited time availability. If you're working, they'll understand. Yes, it lengthened the interviewing process as it was significantly harder to find an available time for both parties, however it was the most easiest thing to do given my current work responsibilities. For the in person interviews, I used vacation days. Yes, I have limited vacation days, but that's why I screened heavily on the phone to determine what was really worth exploring in person and burning those days. At the end of the day, the vacation days are meaningless as they'll simply be paid out if you move to a new firm.
I've found honesty is the best answer. However, be clear on what compensation you are looking for and why. The reality is there are an array of variables that drive compensation. For example, in an imaginary world where you moved from a REIT to BX, you should expect a material increase in compensation as you WILL earn it. The most important thing is to understand what the position generally pays and why it pays that much. I received a 40%+ increase in my recent move. Why? Well, primarily because ...
a. My prior firm was less competitive in the labor market with regards to compensation. b. The work / life balance at my prior firm was much better, i.e. less hours, than my current firm. c. Public v. Private d. I had less responsibility at my prior firm
Hope this helps.
When/If they ask for current all-in comp, pivot immediately to what you want to make at the new place. It's really none of their business and they are just trying to benchmark you, but you of course can't say "it's none of your business." Take a hint from politicians in debates and instead of answering the question you're asked, answer the question you want to be asked.
HR: "What's your current all in comp?"
YOU: "Competitive with the market. Total comp in the X to Y range is my target, though, because of blah and blah."
HR: "...But what do you make now?"
YOU: "I'm well compensated, but one of the factors that lead me to want this transition, along with the opportunity to have a greater impact on the company's projects and greater responsibility, is the opportunity to earn more than I am able to now. I know that W is standard for a position such as this, and I am looking for total comp in the X to Y range because of blah and blah."
HR: -_________- "Ok, moving on..."
In general, fuck HR and don't let them lowball you. Having some benchmarks (http://celassociates.com/prime/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/CELAssociates… + Glassdoor + friends in the industry if you're close enough) will help. They aren't going to hammer you over and over and over again, so just keep redirecting the question until they move on.
This is great. Thanks guys
Guys,
Are there any cons of speaking with a large number of recruitment firms, other than the factor of it being time consuming? I've begun speaking with a number of recruiting firms and would just like to make sure before reaching out to additional ones.
Also, can anyone familiar with different firms please eye the list below and tell me which ones are worth/not worth reaching out to for JUNIOR roles (my two criteria is the firm is generally helpful in the RE investing space and covers junior level positions, rather than mid-level/exec):
Why not just hit them all? Worst case scenario is that they will "keep your resume on file"....best case scenario is they'll know of an opportunity. A job search is partly a numbers game at the end of the day.
Here are some of the ones I know focuses on analyst/associate level roles in RE:
-Crown Advisors -SG Partners -Grant Morgan Associates (DC only) -RETS -Rhodes Associates -Michael Page Associates -Carter Pierce -Maison Group (DC only) -Huntington Search Partners -Bachrach
Good luck with your search
job searching while employed (Originally Posted: 09/19/2014)
Hello errrrr one
I am wondering how do you guys take phone interviews, go in for 1 or 2 or even 3 interviews when you are already fully employed.
Would you be able to do it if you have to give least 1 week but preferably two week notice for vacations time.
talent, haha no i did phone interviews during the lunch time 12-3 and then most companies are understanding and will give you a 2 week notice if you let them know. It just gets tricky iof you dont get a job quick and are taking a lot of days off
Interviewing before work or after work. "Doctor" appointments etc.
Take phone interviews in empty offices. Just got to be a little sneaky about it
A company interviewing you will know you're employed and should be pretty flexible with you as others have said. As others have said, early calls/interviews (when we're hiring people I'll do 7 am interviews and I do not like to be in the office at 7 am but I understand), lunch time, doctors and dentist appointments, etc. And if you're in a 2 year and out analyst program your superiors may just be cool if you tell them the truth.
This is the category that is best to fall in to. I told my manager that recruiting season is starting and I'll be going on interviews soon hopefully. I take phone interviews right at my desk and I can take time off for an interview with a day or two notice.
nice, I wasnt sure how flexible interviewers are but this is great.
Applying while Employed-Help (Originally Posted: 09/16/2009)
I'm currently working for a lesser known middle-market boutique IB. I've been an analyst for a little over 4 months and have gained some great experience. I took the job b/c I came from a non-target and the market coming out in May completely sucked. I have since made the decision that it is necessary for me to leave this firm and target a BB or a top-tier boutique. Below are my questions, thanks for the help.
1)I found that you get the best response by directly contacting senior level bankers. How should I go about doing this now that I have a job? I have access to CapIQ and limitless names so finding senior guys isn't a problem. 2)Should I block out the name of my current firm on my resume? The only reason I say this is because I wouldn't want it to get back to my firm that I'm job hunting. 3)Do BB's hire IB analysts at this time? Would they be willing to take me with the next class of analysts this coming fall? Is HR a total waste of my time? 4)Would BB's be looking to hire for S&T roles this time of the year?
I would prefer to do a little legwork before exhausting my contacts on this one. Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate it.
Also, in relation to #1: If you have a format that you used and would be willing to post it please do. Thanks.
Im also looking to do this actually.
Don't blindly send your resume out to people. Start by setting up individual conversations with some senior people that you think would be willing to talk to you...friends of friends, alums from your school, people you've met or seen at a reception/conference/party.
Go into these conversations with the goal of getting good advice about your current situation and your thoughts about whether you should try to move on or not. Think about them more as informational interviews. Have an open mind. If they agree that it's time to start looking and you're interested in their firm, ask how they would suggest you approach their company. If they like you, they'll probably offer to send your resume to the right person and/or put in a good word for you. You should also look to get their feedback on other firms you're thinking about. Take a look at this before you meet with anyone: How to Approach Informational Interviews – Key Do’s and Don’ts - http://bit.ly/VCr79
The best way for you to get into the recruiting process when you're off-cycle is through introductions from the right people. The "right people" are not only MDs. Read this to broaden the scope of people you might want to reach out to. The Email Introductions Most Likely to Open Doors - http://bit.ly/Uho6F
The HR folks understand the sensitivity of your situation and word will not get out. When you have individual conversations with line people, they too will fully appreciate your situation. With this approach, the risk of word getting back to your firm is miniscule.
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Thanks a lot formerMD, that advice is extremely helpful.
Excellent. Good luck
Gotta Mentor www.GottaMentor.com Connect to the Advice & People You Need to Achieve Your Career Goals
in this case, what would be considered "blindly send resume out to people"? Would sending resume to [email protected] be considered "blindly"? How about responding to a doostang ad?
Just want to hear some thoughts on this. Thanks.
Jason, responding to an ad is totally fine. Sending a resume to career@blackstone isn't likely to be productive. Better to approach Blackstone or any other company that isn't directly soliciting through someone. That way your resume is much more likely to be seen by the right people. Sending it to career@[fill in the blank] isn't going to get you outed at your firm, but it's not likely to get you an interview either.
Gotta Mentor www.GottaMentor.com Connect to the Advice & People You Need to Achieve Your Career Goals
Any other feelings on this issue....
Confess that you are looking for new job? (Originally Posted: 02/19/2012)
What are peoples experiences when looking for a job while you are employed - how is the level of confidentiality when working with headhunters etc? I have doubts that the fact that you are looking will remain a secret within your current employment since the finance world can be very small.
If that happens and in case you have been asked by someone (with seniority) in your current job about whether you are looking, what would you say? Confess the truth? Deny everything? Or say something vage, like i'm not seriously looking.
Please let me know your thoughts and experience.
Thanks
Do not say anything!
This happened to me, I was talking to someone at a bank about opportunities, our firm screwed them about 2 weeks later, their big dog was having a rant about the screwing and finished it off with "and your guys are applying for fucking jobs here!!!". Very unprofessional of him, but it happened. I was called in, slapped on the wrist, denied everything, pledged allegiance to my current firm, bonus wasn’t as big as it could have been and am being much more careful from now on.
With head hunters, they are also not to be trusted. We've had people's CVs turn up on our desk of guys we know so you give them a ring and they have had no knowledge of the job and never heard of the head hunter who gave us their CV. head hunters are horrible people who trade your CV for info.
I recently had a headhunter pay for my dinner and asked questions like:
At the last company you worked at, can you tell me the structure of your department, how many employees were there?
Past Compensation (didn't answer this)
Name of Current Company (didn't answer this either)
Are they really able to sell people just by knowing information on the corporate structure? Wouldn't it be easier for them to call the main corporate line, and try to get redirected to a hiring manager?
I take it that since you're posting this question that you don't hold any senior position of importance at whatever firm you work at.
With that said, I wouldn't worry about searching for jobs as long as you're not telling co-workers (who may have a bone to pick with you, nevertheless) and as long as you're not using company email/phones to talk to recruiters.
Remember, most recruiters want you to find a job, so they want you to keep the job you have (employed people tend to get interviews easier than unemployed). It would not be in their interest to flaunt to others in the industry that you are interviewing for other jobs. Lastly, if you're a jr. or a 1st year analyst, I highly doubt you are being 'talked about' yet within finance circles anyways.
Managing a Job Search While Employed (Originally Posted: 01/20/2011)
In this Wall Street Mentors' Q&A with Scott Morris, we discuss how to manage a job search while currently employed - sometimes a tricky balancing act.
If you want some extra interview practice and a candid critique from a Wall Street professional, Wall Street Mentors is offering an Interview Special (50% off). Please email me at WallStreetOasis.com>[email protected] to find out more. We also offer personalized consultations, in which a Wall Street Mentor can provide you with interview prep and a strategy for best marketing yourself.
I see people asking this all the time on WSO. GREAT idea for an interview, now I have somewhere to point them. Well done, Chris (and Scott, of course)!
Wow I was struggling a bit with this and you guys nailed it. Good stuff.
I am moved!
thanks, perfect timing as I just got fucked on my comp
Great video. Re-found this site after doing a search for this exact topic!
Confess that you are looking for new job? (Originally Posted: 02/19/2012)
What are peoples experiences when looking for a job while you are employed - how is the level of confidentiality when working with headhunters etc? I have doubts that the fact that you are looking will remain a secret within your current employment since the finance world can be very small.
If that happens and in case you have been asked by someone (with seniority) in your current job about whether you are looking, what would you say? Confess the truth? Deny everything? Or say something vage, like i'm not seriously applying.
Please let me know your thoughts and experience.
Thanks
Never underestimate the power of denial.
It depends on how comfortable you are with that person. If I'm not really comfortable with my boss, I'd say something vague but I wouldn't lie and say I'm not looking.
So how would you phrase this? "I'm considered looking outside the firm" or something like that?
Networking while employed (Originally Posted: 03/15/2015)
Hello fellow Chimps
I'm an analyst with a major commodities house in Europe (think BP, Shell, Cargill). I'm doing Risk right now, which is a standard entry-level position and potentially a stepping stone to the trading side.
I'm trying to figure out how to network in this environment. I'm not really looking for a job right now, just to form relationships that have an upside potential for later (either job or business opportunities)
It's ok to contact anyone when you're still at school because you're supposed to be looking for a job soon and you don't know much about the industry. However I don't think you can just use that when you're already employed, here's what you would get - Why do you want to know about YYY? Aren't you happy with XXX? We do pretty much the same here at YYY. - Why don't you know that side of the business already? Why don't you just ask your colleagues at XXX instead of a random guy you found on Linkedin?
Another point is that commodities is really a small market, so anyone I contact will know my firm and likely someone working there. I want to have a solid story if someone here hears I'm making cold calls outside (and I'm not at a commercial position so I don't even have the excuse of looking for deals). Also, when you're employed you don't only represent your own brand but also the firm. I want to keep it professional and avoid any damageable impact on the firm's image on the market.
What are your thoughts on that and what strategy would you use specific to that situation?
Cheers
I'd suggest start with your friends from school and analysts at your current firm. I think your mentality right now is great. Just go out and make friends. And opportunities will present themselves.
Job searching while consulting (Originally Posted: 01/28/2014)
Hello again WSO,
Is it a horrible idea to quit one's consulting job before searching for other jobs? The reason I ask is because I'm on a terrible engagement that involves very long hours, traveling Monday-Friday and a team that is not very quick or agreeable when it comes to approving personal time. As such, I really have no time to search for new jobs, much less interview for them!
I'd prefer to leave before this engagement ends (another 7 mos or so), and I think I could have good hiring prospects elsewhere based on my credentials alone. I just don't want to completely screw up my candidacy by voluntarily becoming "unemployed" then finding out that nobody wants to hire an "unemployed person".
How did you guys in consulting approach going for other jobs when under similar circumstances?
To clarify - I'm leaving because I want to pursue other opportunities outside of consulting (I'm almost done with my second year), not solely because I hate this project. Even if I were on a better project, this question would remain.
Most people at my firm in your situation first figure out a good point to roll off of the project they're on. Then they tell the firm that they're want to move on. The firm then puts you on "transition assistance," meaning they pay you for two months to go get a job. There is also a manager dedicated to helping you find a job if you're having trouble.
From what you wrote, I think I know where you work and am pretty sure your firm has a similar program.
I'm not sure if we have such a program, but I'll be sure to look into it. That would be just the sort of thing I'm looking for at the moment. Thanks for the heads up.
For clarification, I'm in the management ("strategy") consulting arm of an Accenture/Big 4, so may not be the same place you are thinking of.
I'd start doing a "quiet" search now, start by reaching out to alums or contacts who have been helpful and catch up with them, start putting out feelers, talk to head hunters/executive recruiters. What do you want to move into? I'd also start ramping up my linkedin, making sure that my profile was up to date.
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