Moved from IBD => Compliance, next steps?
I posted a few months ago regarding how I was transferred from a top BB IBD to compliance, and I wanted everyone's advice/opinions on what my next steps could be. This was particularly hard on me because I turned down other reputable IBD offers to accept the BB.
The work is mind-numbingly boring, but the hours aren't that bad (8-5) and I am using the spare time to read up on valuation/corporate finance books. I've been networking both internally and externally, and I face a dilemma:
- to qualify for an internal transfer, I must have been at my current position for ~2 years. I am not sure if I can survive that long. What pisses me off to no end is that my bank is in FULL HIRING MODE for the 2010 class, but I wasn't even considered for the 2010 pool (I contacted HR and they told me it wasn't part of the 'protocol').
- for external transfers, my contacts tell me to 'stick it out' for a year because it looks really bad for recruiting/MBA if the job position wasn't even for a full year.
Given this, how should I go about potentially lateralling out of my job into a FO role?
Thanks for everyones' opinions.
Also I have developed some
Also I have developed some key relationships within my current BB, and I feel like lateralling out might sour these relationships
Hard to move in BB's
So what's this about: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/middle-offic...
I think you should stay for the 2 years and then try to transfer, though it is very hard to do so. I'm surprised you had to stay in compliance. I only know of GS that did this and they moved everyone back. I can't think of a BB that would do this to you.
Good luck.
I heard something similar to
I heard something similar to 1styearBanker from a friend at Goldman (where all those moved to back office for 3-6 months were moved back to front office). Have they not hinted to you that they may move people back? If not, that really sucks, and sorry to hear.
From the 2 year suggestion, I have a guess as to where you are... if I'm right, it's pretty tough to do internal moves from that bank...
So you joined this BB in July
So you joined this BB in July and they placed you in compliance ? Did you go through the BB's training program ? That's important because it critical to have that on your resume. Anyways, I think an internal transfer might be an uphill battle for you. Its taboo for you to even mention it, HR will insist that you complete at least two years within that department (as they already have).
Your contacts are correct about the external transfer being tough because people generally don't want someone who's jump shipped so quickly. Also, they're understandably reluctant to consider for employment, or pass on the resume of someone who's only been employed for such a short while, that too in compliance.
Your best bet is to target smaller boutique banks that are looking for analysts. Email/call them and explain your situation. I'm sure there will be a few willing to take you on. In my opinion, this route is better than working in a position you hate for two years on the flimsy promise of being considered for a role in IB. By that time, you will be pigeonholed as a back/middle office guy so your chances of breaking into Banking at others bank will also be very slim.
I know people that were laid off in late 2007 after only a few months of work in IB, they managed to find employment at smaller boutiques, restructuring firms pretty quickly. Obviously, your situation is diff because you're in compliance but you have the training program experience.
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I do not understand why at
I do not understand why at all you would want to lateral internally within this firm, they already screwed over once big time. Not sure who your contacts are, but if you go BO to FO externally no one will care they will think finally this guy/gal got to his/her senses. Collect your pay cheque and start looking for an exit.
What was the reason?
Did they give you a reason for the move? This is just weird, horrible and unfair.
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This is not the worst.
Last year this time, some BB screwed their IBD analysts by not placing them into any group, not even transferring them to a back office team! Instead, they created a generalist pool under IBD and threw those ppl into this group. There were no senior ppl, not even a 2nd year analyst in the group and there was virtually zero workflow. As expected, when the layoff occurred earlier this year, the whole group was canned. So basically they screwed you first and then they told you that you were not contributing and were not good enough. What a douchebag.
Personally, this is the worst I've ever heard. The layoff involves no performance issue, no office politics etc because you don't have a lot of opportunities to get involved in work and politics given the nature of the group. The worst of the worst is those HR ppl LIED. They kept telling ppl in that group that they were trying to place them somewhere else and if there was a layoff, they would be kept intact.
Ukon: I actually think that's
Ukon: I actually think that's not as bad as being placed in compliance. At least in this situation, you can still put 'Investment banking analyst' in your resume while looking for work. And when you say 'virtually zero workflow' what do you mean? Zero meaningful work on deals, or zero work in general? If it's the former, maybe these guys got a shitload of pitching... in which case there is still some work done. And if it's the latter... well, at least they got paid for doing nothing.
Also, in 2008, banks were just pitching left and right. I'm sure everyone was kept busy. So if any one of these kids just stepped up and raised their hands to say 'I'm willing to do this', I'm sure some groups wouldn't mind unloading some crap work on them. And then in that case, it's something you can write about under experience...
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Kanon,
Virtually zero workflow = no workflow except for PIBs, Company Profiles and updating stock prices. All provide little to no learning value anyway. I agree that preparing pitch books will be decent learning exp, but unfortunately, that is not part of the "workflow". So... there was basically no work...
Personally, I think this is pretty bad... True, you can keep your IBD analyst title, but that's it. Your experience is non-existing and you have nothing to put down on your resume. (Well, you can still claim that you've done PIBs and profiles.. but that does not add a lot of value, right?) Also, it appears to me this bank decided to lay off that entire group from Day One, even before those kids started working. How does that make sense? I feel the only reason the bank did not let them go on Day One was to avoid lawsuits...
PS: Btw, at the end of 2008, few banks actually had enough work to keep everyone busy, and I think this was one main reason why that group had little workflow. And of course, there was no job in the market in early 2009...
the advice of staying 1 year
the advice of staying 1 year or 2 yeas in a position for resume/mba/etc is normally solid advice, but these are not normal times. for example, with a future mba app, think ahead a few years and ask yourself how the story flows -- i was hired to do ibd, but switched into compliance against my intererst, surveyed the situation and realized that compliance was not a future i wanted, so i networked my way to a job i really wanted in a very difficult labor market... that sounds like the mentality most mba schools are looking for and at worst is certainly not something that you'd expect to be held against you (spend less than a year at your 2nd job and there might be some issues!)
if the markets are turning for the better, then riding out 2 years in compliance could crush your ops to get out -- 2 years from now, people will look at your resume as a compliance person, not someone who wanted to be in banking/front office.
a poster above made a solid suggestion to start networking immediately with smaller/boutique banks straight away -- particularly if you have ibd training under your belt, you should get a look and hopefully nail an offer on something you really want to do. heck, i'd argue it's worth networking everywhere including bbs... now is actually a good time. for example, i've heard of several groups wanting to hire right now, but can't b/c no bonuses are guaranteed at jr level now, so no one will move before feb/mar bonus is paid. if you're willing to pass on a stub bonus (which prolly won't be a lot from compliance), then get networking pronto imho.
Ukon, You're referring to
Ukon,
You're referring to that group of kids at Lehman Brothers last year right? If so, it was done, because they failed their Series 7 and yes they basically all got laid off in the winter.
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DA,
Not everyone in that group failed their Series 7/63... at least my friend passed both in the first attempt... and some other kids who actually failed Series 7 were not pulled into that group according to my friend.
Btw, it's not only the LB kids, the group actually had both LB and BarCap kids.. not sure how many of each though...