Are there "ideal" extracurriculars for biz school applicants?

I was wondering about how recruiters and admissions must go through thousands of applications and resumes throughout the years and can get a feel of each activity.

Are there certain college extracurriculars that just have better appeal?

Student government officer, business club officer, club that deals with a lot of money, etc.?

I know that what you do in a role is more important than the name of the club, but are certain activities looked more favorably upon in the eyes of biz school admissions? I once heard that military experience was highly valued, sort of like how Eagle Scout helps in undergraduate admissions.

Since most of you are seasoned vets of the industry, please help me out. Thank you.

 

Study abroad experiences are viewed very well.

It's good to add something with a non-finance flavor. Recruiters and bankers talk about finance all day every day so it's nice for them when they can talk about something "interesting" like your summer in Africa or something. Investment "clubs" are not incredibly impressive. Anyone can start one. If your school has an investment fund that is selective then that's more impressive than you starting some club which may or may not be very legit. If you have the time and means, I'd say go on a study abroad. It'll be a good experience for you and it gives you something good to talk about during an interview.

 

Do something that you're interested in, as that is the point of an extracurricular activity. I mean there has got to be something that interests you beyond finance right, and if not then I would say that you are a pretty fucking boring person. Find something that is unique, interests you, and is completely unrelated to finance. Is there a sailing club, cycling club, fencing club? I mean check out what ham radio is all about, there's tons of things you can do with that hobby. Get a pilot's license.

Study abroad is cool too. But don't go to fucking London, go to some place with a serious language/culture difference so you can go through the cycle of culture shock and develop an appreciation of your home culture and a deeper understanding of the foreign culture. And don't go out and get piss drunk all the time with other foreigners. I mean going out and getting piss drunk is fun, but if you take the time and effort to try to immerse yourself in the foreign country, you'll have a more rewarding experience and better stories to tell.

As for a language to learn, again, pick something you're interested in and follow through with it beyond just the first year level.

 
[Comment removed by mod team]
 

Thank you for your replies.

I also heard that business schools and recruiters like people who are "student government president", basically Type A personalities. Is there any truth to this?

 
bugmenot2:
Thank you for your replies.

I also heard that business schools and recruiters like people who are "student government president", basically Type A personalities. Is there any truth to this?

Yes and no. Business schools and recruiters are looking for somebody who is not a moron and has a good head on their shoulders. Generally speaking the people that are "student government presidents" are are not morons, and as a result they get accepted to business school or for a particular position. It wasn't because of the position in and of itself, but because of the personal qualities that one must possess to attain a leadership position. But there are many other ways to show that you are not a moron.

 

I had hardly any extracurriculars worth noting for business school and didn't find it to be an issue. What you have done SINCE you left school is far more relevant in the admissions process (work wise i mean). Everyone has studied abroad and such an experience is only relevant if you tie it in to future goals. e.g. You want to return to the place post-mba, use an mba to get back there, blah blah etc.

 
bugmenot2:
I've seen a lot of posts about starting your own non-profit. Don't most do the same thing (raise awareness for third world countries, etc.) or are these non-profits on WSO more about things like venture capital.

I took a group of inner city kids from what U.S News and Report called a "drop out factory" and SAT prep the shit of them them as well and educate them on colleges. All wrote an essay on what they wanted to do next(quite funny essays) and I paid for 1st year of college(public state school) then Repeat. Did this for 8 years before b school

 
monty09:
bugmenot2:
I've seen a lot of posts about starting your own non-profit. Don't most do the same thing (raise awareness for third world countries, etc.) or are these non-profits on WSO more about things like venture capital.

I took a group of inner city kids from what U.S News and Report called a "drop out factory" and SAT prep the shit of them them as well and educate them on colleges. All wrote an essay on what they wanted to do next(quite funny essays) and I paid for 1st year of college(public state school) then Repeat. Did this for 8 years before b school

you are the man
 
monty09:
bugmenot2:
I've seen a lot of posts about starting your own non-profit. Don't most do the same thing (raise awareness for third world countries, etc.) or are these non-profits on WSO more about things like venture capital.

I took a group of inner city kids from what U.S News and Report called a "drop out factory" and SAT prep the shit of them them as well and educate them on colleges. All wrote an essay on what they wanted to do next(quite funny essays) and I paid for 1st year of college(public state school) then Repeat. Did this for 8 years before b school

E.P.I.C.

I win here, I win there...
 
ambition56:
damn I'm assuming you raised the funds to pay for those kids to go to school rather than out of your own pocket lol

the first four years I used funds from my own college as I got refunds every year and cost of public school was under $2600. Next four years I paid out of my pocket.

Why did I do this?

  1. I was a product of said school and made a 13 on my first college exam. Yes, 13. I quickly learned I was not prepared so wanted to help the people behind me.

  2. Its hard to get advice on college and choices about your career when your the first to go to college. While a father/mother may say you can do anything, they have not been through A (college)so tough to give advice on B(career).

  3. I had the time to help others while I was also helping myself(I was getting my education and educating others)

 

Study abroad programs, non-profit involvement (both regional and international - mission trips, for example) and leadership activities (both college and non-profit) are all viewed very highly. At the end of the day, it is really a matter of where you are most passionate and where you can allow that passion to shine through and make an impact on the organization. Making a difference or being a leader will definitely help strengthen your B school application, and being able to speak to those experiences with a visible energy and enthusiasm will take you that much further.

Sit down, look over your options and figure out what means the most to you and what you will be able to most readily and eagerly jump into. Good luck.

 

my extracurriculars show my appetite for risk, and my listing mountain biking and freestyle skiing actually landed an interview (and offer, for that matter) at a VC firm. /claim

_________ John Tabacco's raw, unique market commentary based on real information from real short sellers: http://www.TheDailyShortReport.com
 

As a freshman in college, I would not cater anything specifically in the hopes of landing a spot in a top business school. Business school should be something that enables you to achieve a certain goal; it should not be the goal itself.

I studied abroad in New Zealand because I wanted to and the choice was well received by every firm I have been with or interviewed with over the past three years. Do what you enjoy, not what you think the adcoms want; hopefully what you enjoy also has some humanitarian aspect to it. Although generic, I'd love to do one of these, specifically the one in the Philippines, someday.

http://www.habitat.org/gv/

 

For my extracurricular activities, I have position of president for 2 years of a business student association as well as president for an investment club with an active portfolio in the 5 figure range. I also was the budget chair for SGA and am working on revamping our school of business internship program. I have mixed feelings as to how they'll be received by recruiters as I'm about to start on my senior year in college.

If I could go back and make changes, I think doing study abroad in England and taking business classes there would be interesting to a recruiter (aside from the cultures being similar) or go to one of the BRIC countries to take a class or two. The BRIC countries, especially China, would be huge.

 

Overall, I think a mix is ultimately going to be the best way to go – why does it have to be one way or the other? ECs really are important . . . so many applicants have great academics and professional backgrounds that sound similar, so the outside activities are often one of the main factors that can help to differentiate you in the admissions process.

Yes, it’s definitely advisable to excel at a few ECs/hobbies rather than superficially dabble in many, and it’s also important to show active involvement over a period of time. When you’re thinking about where to spend your time, generally, the most impressive ECs are those that demonstrate community involvement and/or leadership, and anything that shows that you are a leader outside of work and your profession is an asset. Those experiences are going to be an opportunity to highlight additional instances beyond your work in which you have displayed traditional MBA skills - leadership, teamwork, communication, creativity. Regardless of if it’s traditional volunteering like you described or something a bit more distinct (although be cautious about what you think is actually distinct/unique. Adcoms could make a drinking game over the number of people who say they do triathlons, are foodies, etc.), involvement in group-oriented activities are generally better than solitary activities.

Hope that helps.

Regards, Jon

Jon Fuller Senior Admissions Counselor Clear Admit, LLC 215.568.2590
 

I have written this on here multiple times, but it still resonates and it's helped a whole bunch of people, including me. When I started thinking about b-school a couple of years ago, I asked a guy that was at school what he recommended doing for ECs. His advice was simple: pick the one or two things that you've been meaning to get involved with, and do it.

For me, that meant getting involved with one organization that I'd done previous work with, and doing more. It also meant helping a friend of mine write the business plan for his non-profit and eventually joining the board. Both were things that I'd sort of been doing anyway, but when I actually thought about, realized I wanted to do more. I had a few other smaller things that were more personal, but you get the idea.

I also think things like triathlons or whatever can definitely be interesting, but in addition to community work (not the other way around). I know a guy who started all of his "personal statement" essays with his post-college hobby of kayaking. I'm sure people have done the same for marathons, tris, crossfit, and just about everything else. In the end, you want to be interesting and well-rounded, and there are a ton of ways to get to that point.

 

This might be a dumb question, but how did you receive an admissions evaluation already? I'm in the process of applying for round 1s right now, and I am under the impression that you won't hear anything back until the early Dec time frame. Am I incorrect in assuming this? Is there a way to get feedback before the actual adcom decision? Thanks.

 

What do you do (work wise)? Schools can be pretty lenient if you're an investment banker or someone else that works 100 hours weeks, because they know you just don't have the time. They will look more to your undergrad to see how involved you were then.

Now, if you aren't an investment banker, didn't do much undergrad, or just want to bolster them anyway, the best thing I can think of is to re-kindle some old involvement. I don't have any idea what your volunteer activity is (nor do I know if it's volunteer if you get paid something), but try to do something big for them. The key is to pick something that you have been involved with on an ongoing or former basis, because that way your "dates of involvement" will not start in September, 2013 (can back date to your initial invovlement). It won't look desperate then.

Personally, I just think schools want interesting people. If it looks like you have a semi-boring job, not much involvement outside of your job, and didn't do much in college, they don't have much incentive to let you in. Strengths in any one of those things can make up for others. Badass work experience, like a start-up that you worked day and night on, will certainly make up for not doing anything else. Boring work experience at a 40/week job, but great EC leadership that you can write about in essays can really bolster your profile.

 
BGP2587:

Personally, I just think schools want interesting people. If it looks like you have a semi-boring job, not much involvement outside of your job, and didn't do much in college, they don't have much incentive to let you in. Strengths in any one of those things can make up for others. Badass work experience, like a start-up that you worked day and night on, will certainly make up for not doing anything else. Boring work experience at a 40/week job, but great EC leadership that you can write about in essays can really bolster your profile.

Yes yes yes. I remember Dee Leopold saying at an HBS presentation, "We know you are smart, but are you interesting?"
Remember, someone is going to pay $150,000 to sit next to you, or be in your learning team, or hang out with you debating the ins and outs of a case on global logistics and ethics. They want to be able to say, "wow, my classmate is so cool, s/he did XYZ".
The guy who sat next to me at business school has now started a new political party in Pakistan. I am honored and I lucky that someone saw in his background the potential for him to change the world. I trust he will.
(PS, not sure what value he got sitting next to me, but hey).

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

PS: I actually think the cloistered nuns angle is kind of interesting. I've never heard that one before.

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 
Betsy Massar:

PS: I actually think the cloistered nuns angle is kind of interesting. I've never heard that one before.

I have a lot of interesting hobbies and affiliations. But I was under the impression that what they're really looking for is leadership roles? Is this true? I have a non-traditional background, but no major leadership roles outside my career. I never started a political party, for example, and don't plan to before January.
 

If possible, try to collaborate/organize initiatives in your EC work - whether it be setting up a football team or something save the world ish. If you can combine something you really enjoy with community service, all the more beneficial for you. Adcoms love collaboration as it shows leadership

 

Seems like a sweet gig you got. Are the hours that different between consulting and CS (or is it mainly because you don't have to travel anymore?)

Can you tell a little bit more about getting a CS gig?

Reason I'm asking is I'm going to be starting in CF at a F50 and I would like to do well there and hopefully transition to CS after 2 years? Any advice on what CF group would be best?

Sorry about hijacking your thread, but it does get bumped!

 
krypton:

Seems like a sweet gig you got. Are the hours that different between consulting and CS (or is it mainly because you don't have to travel anymore?)

Can you tell a little bit more about getting a CS gig?

Reason I'm asking is I'm going to be starting in CF at a F50 and I would like to do well there and hopefully transition to CS after 2 years? Any advice on what CF group would be best?

Sorry about hijacking your thread, but it does get bumped!

No worries. See this AMA thread that I did as I was leaving my job:

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/leaving-Deloitte-so-after-2-years-ask-me-anything

In terms of the hours, it is definitely a LOT different from consulting, and it is not just due to travel. The pace is just a lot slower than in consulting, with very different expectations from managers in terms of deadlines. I am still in mostly training/observation mode at this point, so that will change to some degree, but I was regularly working to 1 am in consulting, and doubt I will ever have to work past 8pm in my new job if I am smart about how I approach my work.

Can't really offer any advice on what CF group would be best for you, I just don't have any experience or expertise in that department.

 

Not sure if this your cup of tea, but some other ideas besides sports, helping the poor, tutoring, etc.:

  1. RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS A lot of folks get very self-conscious about this probably because of the unfortunate political connotations associated with any organized religion these days.

But if you're a believer, getting more involved can be one of the most rewarding experiences (disclaimer: I am not religious at all, so consider this an outsider's view who has seen clients, friends, etc of all faiths get involved).

And even for the b-school applications, it's not really a negative at all, and in many respects can be a positive, so long as you're focused on the leadership experiences and lessons learned that would apply to any secular activities as well (i.e. fundraising, organizing, taking initiative, working with the community, etc.). While the b-school environment is very secular, there are plenty of folks who are religious and are somewhat involved (or even actively involved) in their religious groups throughout their lives both pre-MBA, during school as well as post-MBA.

  1. POLITICAL PARTIES / ORGANIZATIONS

Again, this may seem more controversial than it really is. As long as you're not part of a hate group or anything, it's not going to be a negative, and can be a big positive if you end up getting significant leadership responsibility (experiences and lessons leared which can carry over into your future roles in your career or community).

I can't speak for every single b-school admin or student, but what you'll find is that regardless of party affiliation or political leaning, b-schoolers tend to be centrists (economically more conservative, socially more liberal). So whether you end up getting involved with conservative or liberal leaning groups -- the assumption most people will make (unless you suggest otherwise) is that you are a moderate.

And especially this year being an election year, there may be no better time to get involved, whether it's directly in campaigns, in PACs, or any other politically oriented groups.

  1. SOCIAL/CULTURAL ORGANIZATIONS

Maybe you have strong views about certain rights and issues - whether it's immigration reform, LGBT rights, business lobbies, etc. Or you are of a certain cultural/ethnic background (Jewish, African-American, Asian, Hispanic, etc). Also, there are plenty of groups that aren't about social issues, but mostly arts/culture, whether it's film festivals targeted towards niche audiences, or arts programs.

  1. ARTS ORGANIZATIONS

Maybe you don't play an instrument, but love music. Or you aren't a writer or filmmaker, but love films. Or you aren't a budding comic, but love comedy. Or you don't draw or paint, but love art. Especially in NY, there's tons of orgs to get involved in: music festivals (if you dig deep you'll find a ton of small festivals that target just about any genre), film festivals, comedy festivals, or art galleries/installations. Start as a volunteer, and you'll be surprised how much leadership responsibility you will be given if you show yourself to be reliable, smart, and take initiative.

Again, none of this may be of genuine interest to you, but if they are, it's certainly a good alternative to Habitat for Humanity, Toastmasters, NY Cares, etc. that I've seen thousands of times from applicants.

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

I like your approach: combining something that will assist you in the MBA admissions process with something that you feel is important and enjoyable. NotthehospitalER has particularly valid suggestion in that he is suggesting whatever you do involves others. Training for a marathon can be done in solitude. It too is a valuable activity (as long as you don't kill you knees), but it could be made so much more valuable if you do more with it. For example if you organize a team of co-workers who raise money by getting sponsors to sponsor their runs with the money going to a specific charity. Obviously, you could do the same with biking or hiking (a climb up Mt Whitney??? Pike's Peak?)

Other ideas: Organize alumni from your school to do tax prep in low income areas. Get involved in the 2018 elections See if there is interest in and then organize gourmet cooking classes for your co-workers.

Anyway, these are a few ideas that came to mind. Good luck!

Linda Abraham President, Accepted | Contact Me | Admissions Consulting
 

in terms of getting an MBA, your undergraduate clubs mean pretty much nothing its all about the job you have after undergrad... perhaps influenced by the clubs and activities that you have participated in pick one or two activities your interested in and do them really well. sounds like you enjoy boxing. more importantly, start researching finance, building a resume, contacting recruiters to get a good internship and hopefully land a full time position

its hard to get into an MBA program without formal work experience. its also useless to go through an mba program without formal work experience.

 

Adcomm's will tell you that post-college EC's are far more significant than your involvement while on campus. Obviously, being a class president or D-I athlete are great differentiating factors but adcomm's want to know that you are actively involved in the community while simultaneously holding a good job. I would recommend programs such as NY cares or Big Brothers or donating your time teaching boxing.

 

I think more so than community service, they want to see that you have been doing something with your free time. Community service is a good activity for most people but if you can show you have been doing something with your non-work time, that you are serious about it, are good at it and have some sort of concrete result, that should be fine. For example, I have a friend who works at a big 4 and also is a very serious chess player (studies the game, plays in tournaments, ranked, etc.) so in her free time she can show she has been doing something other than just "hanging out with friends, watching movies, etc."

 

There is no preferred activity as long as it's some productive group activity (i.e. it doesn't have to be do-gooder nonprofit) - and more importantly, something you would enjoy or love doing regardless of b-school or trying to build a resume.

It could be politics (there is an election going on...). They all need volunteers.

It could getting involved in your church, synagogue, temple, mosque, etc.

Or something in the arts: orchestra, band, choir, theater, sketch, etc -- whether as a performer or a producer/administrator

And there are plenty of cultural orgs of all shades: African-American, Asian, Hispanic, Croatian, Greek, etc. -- many of them are either community support/nonprofit or social advocacy groups.

Or it could be a non-profit/community org: local woman's shelter, AIDS or cancer organizations, etc.

What I can say are the most common (and therefore cliche) things to do are activities related to tutoring and mentoring youth - it's a great cause, but it's also been done to death and unless it's something you passionately believe in, I would look for something else.

There are TONS of things you could do. It's just a matter of finding the time.

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

Whatever you put on a resume that is extracurricular, you better be passionate about it. If you're passionate about it, it'll reflect in the interview if/when you're asked vs. getting roped into a United Way stint that you really didn't have an interest in other than saying you volunteered for something, anything.

An extracurricular that I put on my resume while in B-School was strategy work and policy papers I wrote for a senate race campaign. I didn't disclose the party or candidate name. However, when I was asked about it in interviews I was able to bridge my work managing volunteers, participating in a senate campaign etc. to elements of banking - i.e. high pressure, championing projects, high stakes involved, having passion, etc.

 

Well, I'm not in NYC and so I can't speak to what the city offers in terms of opportunities at not-for-profits to volunteer etc.

If I were you I'd start backwards... what interests you? What motivates you? Music? Art? Giving back to underprivileged communities?

Think about it... if you're going to give up some free time, you might as well enjoy what you're doing. If you enjoy what you're doing as a volunteer, then it will be more meaningful, no?

As an analyst it's hard to find free time, right? So what can you do for 1-2 hours a month that would be fulfilling? Alright, other than sleep and sex :-)

Contact one of the fabulous museums in NYC, ask about opportunities to volunteer as a docent. When asked in B-school interviews why you chose to volunteer as a docent you could spin it and say that working in finance 24/7 you needed an outlet to do something creative and that one of the things that always interested you is the visual/performing/creative arts and you found a program at X museum that exposes inner city kids to the arts... etc.

See :-)

 

Here's the thing with PE and banker types.

Adcoms know that you won't have time to do much if anything outside of work. They really don't expect it.

So how you stack up vs other banker/PE types comes down to two things:

(1) Pedigree - both employers and schools; it's no accident that a disproportionate number of ex-GS/MS analysts end up at HBS/Stanford, and the balance of GS/MS folks who didn't get into HBS/Stanford then go to Wharton. And a good number of these folks went to top undergrads as well (since GS/MS are the most selective of the bunch when it comes to hiring analysts).

(2) Extracurriculars during undergrad - if you did something notable during school, whether it was in sports, arts, nonprofit, or being heavily involved in activities related to your affinity group (culture, religion, gender, sexual orientation), etc.

For most banker/PE types though, it really comes down to pedigree.

Alex Chu

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

Don't disagree with you, Alex. And nothing you said is really a surprise or new information to me. I probably don't have the pedigree to make me incredibly competitive at HBS/S, since I was from a non-target, but I worked at a mid-tier bulge and have some good deal experience, and now I'm at a fairly well-known upper middle market fund, where I've got some good experience and deal work to speak to. By the time I apply (2010 for class of 2012), I'll have worked 5 years. But now that things have slowed down significantly work-wise I'm looking to get involved in some things outside of work to help differentiate myself to make up for any potential weak points in my applications.

The nice thing is that I'm surrounded by HBS alum at senior levels at my current firm, senior bankers at my previous firm, and portfolio company CEO's / operating partners (former CEO's at large public companies) who will write me recc's.

Obviously there are exceptions, too. A girl from my undergrad who did 3 years in Prime Brokerage at a bulge in NY was accepted to HBS.

 

if the honor society has nothing to do with finance should I still do it? I only have internships and work experiences on my resume, no "leadership" roles or school involvement at all. Should I run for president of the society then?

 

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