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Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » Jared Dillian's blog
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Dr. Evil's Trillion Dollar Coin
 

Jared Dillian's picture
Jared Dillian
      ST
 
 
(Senior Baboon, 208
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 7:00am
dr-evil-one-trillion-coin.jpeg

It is first-order, stupid humor to make fun of this trillion dollar coin idea with a Dr. Evil joke. But I can’t resist. I also can’t resist calling it the Diet Coke of evil.

So I’m sure by now everyone has heard of this ridiculous trillion dollar coin idea, and while I don’t think anyone understand the mechanics of it (certainly not anyone in Congress, whose members don’t even know how a bond works), what the dummies do understand is that it is an end-around on the deficit, and that’s all they care about. So let me walk through this step by step and try to deconstruct what would happen if we actually did this.

So the Treasury has the authority to mint whatever they want to mint. For background, let it be known that the silver bullion coins that Treasury mints are a $1 denomination (interestingly, they are $5 in Canada) and the gold coins are a $50 denomination. Currently, platinum coins are a $100 denomination (paradoxically, because platinum is cheaper than gold nowadays), but have not been minted in the U.S. since 2008.

Now, Treasury can make bullion coins whatever denomination they want (leaving aside the whole discussion about how dimes and quarters are essentially made of junk and the whole seigniorage phenomenon). So, yeah, if they want to mint a trillion dollar coin, they can mint a trillion dollar coin.

What happens next is interesting. The Federal Reserve is a big holder of Treasury debt (obviously), so the Treasury could retire (i.e., pay off) that debt by paying the Fed that trillion dollar coin. The Fed now has a trillion dollar coin and there is a trillion dollars less debt out there. We avoid the debt ceiling for another year. Huzzah!

This is where things really get amazingly, blindingly ridiculous, because the whole problem with fiat currency is that it is worth whatever the government says it is, and the problem with that is that the government can take something that is totally useless (paper) and make it worth something. By making, by law, something that is essentially worthless (in this case, a coin, which, by market prices, is worth about $1600, or, a little more with the premium owing to scarcity value) worth something does not mean that it is actually worth something. The quarter in your pocket is still essentially junk and the fact that you can buy something, anything with it rests in the confidence of the full faith and credit of the U.S. government.

Well, if the U.S. government goes around playing a joke on everyone with a trillion dollar coin (the pinnacle of stupidity, the freaking zenith of it), it won’t be long before people don’t trust the government anymore, to the extent that they do in the first place. People will correspondingly lose faith in the currency in circulation, and will resort to other stores of value and/or barter. This is an interesting lead-in into the whole purpose of gold in the first place (are you listening carefully, gold bears?) because gold, which has value only because it is scarce, and whose value is determined by market prices, which is almost infinitely indivisible and also portable, meeting all the definitions of a medium of exchange. Therefore, this should settle once and for all the discussion about whether gold is an asset or a currency. Ben Bernanke thinks it is an asset. He is wrong. I don’t own hundreds of ounces of an asset, I own lots and lots of the world’s only true currency.

This is all exclusive of the fact that M0 actually goes up by a trillion dollars, which is inflationary in principle, even though it is very unlikely that the Fed would ever allow that coin into circulation, although it would be fun to get your hands on it and buy the entire state of...Florida. In fact, they should keep that sucker under lock and key, like the anthrax virus. Although it would be the best Ocean’s Fourteen movie of all time if Danny Ocean and Rusty Ryan break into Fort Knox and abscond with it.

The really interesting aspect of this whole “discussion” is that the Democrats, and Paul Krugman, are in favor of it! They love it! That is the part of this sad story that is actually not funny at all, it is quite scary. It shows the extent to which people will resort to gimmicks and tricks to continue their irrational behavior. So in terms of gimmicks and tricks, this is pretty junior varsity. The real legerdemain is the printing of money to buy bonds, which we have been doing for four years, because that is a lot harder for people to understand than minting a stupid trillion dollar platinum coin, because not even Joe Sixpack is fooled by that (only Democrats).

From the dailydirtnap.com

dailydirtnap.com l Author of Street Freak
Twitter: @dailydirtnap
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Tags:
  • trillion dollar coin

Comments

kraziazi's picture

I lost it at the second to

kraziazi
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 220
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 1:18pm

I lost it at the second to last paragraph.

"This is all exclusive of the fact that M0 actually goes up by a trillion dollars, which is inflationary in principle, even though it is very unlikely that the Fed would ever allow that coin into circulation, although it would be fun to get your hands on it and buy the entire state of...Florida. In fact, they should keep that sucker under lock and key, like the anthrax virus. Although it would be the best Ocean’s Fourteen movie of all time if Danny Ocean and Rusty Ryan break into Fort Knox and abscond with it."

hahaha

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Markov's picture

http://www.washingtonpost.com

Markov
      HF
 
(Baboon, 150
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 2:08pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/20...

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SlikRick's picture

I need someone to explain

SlikRick
      CO
 
(Senior Orangutan, 455
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 3:15pm

I need someone to explain this to me. According to the Washington Post article:

To back up a minute, it is important to understand what the debt ceiling does, and why it is problematic. Congress passes laws to spend money: This many dollars for fighter aircraft, Social Security benefits paid according to such and such formula, and so on. It passes laws to enact a tax code. And the difference between that spending and the money raised in taxes the government funds by issuing debt. But Congress also has a third constraint: An overall ceiling on how much debt the Treasury can issue. In the past, Congress has raised that ceiling to whatever it needed to be to match the previously approved taxes and spending as a matter of course.

Now, House Republicans are viewing the debt ceiling differently. They are treating the debt ceiling–and the need to raise it–as a lever through which to try to win battles over spending that they lost in previous negotiations. They want to not pass an increase to the debt ceiling unless they get some major concessions from Democrats on cutting spending—concessions that Democratic senators and the White House say are non-starters.

Isn't the purpose of the debt ceiling to ensure fiscal responsibility and to prevent rampant spending? At what point does the US begin to pay back its debt? Seriously, at one point does the Fed write a check to China, paying back both interest AND PRINCIPAL? That is the idea correct? The goal is to one day knock the debt down to zero right? Am I missing something here?

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Markov's picture

So here's the basic story

Markov
      HF
 
(Baboon, 150
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 3:45pm

So here's the basic story with the debt-ceiling. Around 1940 Congress established an overall limit to how much debt the country could incur. At first, this sounds reasonable, but in practice it leads to all sorts of absurdities.

Consider: Congress enacts laws that increase the deficit (and thus the debt), such as tax cuts, programs like Social Security, etc. All the government programs that Congress has voted for require funds. And the President's primary function, in fact, is to put into action the laws that Congress has passed. But then the President finds that Congress has both ordered him to pay for Medicare, but has also ordered him not to raise the funds to pay for Medicare, because he is ordered to stop raising debt beyond a certain point. The debt ceiling is preventing the President from enacting laws that have already been passed. No new laws are necessary to increase the debt/deficit; laws such as Medicare increase in cost as the population grows and ages, so the debt ceiling is being reached because of very old laws, not new ones.

It is a ridiculous situation. For the past 70 years, Congress has periodically dealt with this by raising the debt ceiling while a minority of Congressmen including, unfortunately, Barack Obama, score political points while posturing against raising the debt ceiling and making symbolic votes against it. Now, for the first time, the majority party is claiming they will refuse to raise the debt ceiling, which means that refusing to pay for the US's already promised obligations.

So what does this mean if the debt ceiling is reached and not raised? The fact is, no one knows. No other country has anything like a debt ceiling, as far as I know, and the sort of default that will be incurred is not at all clear. This isn't an "ordinary" government shutdown, because instead of not passing a new appropriations bill, the government won't be paying for its existing obligations. If the government uses existing revenues to pay off its bonds, but does not pay social security, is this a default? What will happen to treasury rates? Credit default swaps? What programs will be paid for, and which will not? The US Treasury market is the most liquid and transparent in the world, and most of the modern financial system is based off of it. The consequences of breaching the debt ceiling are potentially catastrophic. But also, could potentially be limited if financial markets view continued payment on bonds as not being a default, even if other government obligations such as Social Security go unfunded.

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Markov's picture

Another thing: the government

Markov
      HF
 
(Baboon, 150
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 3:33pm

Another thing: the government does not need to eliminate the debt, just stabilize it is a percentage of GDP. The government never eliminated the massive debt from WW2, but because the country was growing, and to some extant because of increased inflation, the once massive debt became a near-irrelevancy.

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SirTradesaLot's picture

Jared -- I loved your book

SirTradesaLot
     
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 4,523
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 5:49pm

Jared -- I loved your book Street Freak. If you write another book, I'll buy it. In fact, if your second book sucks, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and buy book 3. That's how much I liked Street Freak.

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

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abey1's picture

You bring up a good point

abey1
     
 
(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 5:59pm

You bring up a good point about gold being the only "true" currency of the world. A currency, by nature, is something that grants an individual a claim on output, right? Kind of like a permission slip to consume.

So what happens if a country produces $15.6 trillion worth of goods and services, but because the amount of currency is so finite, only $1 trillion of those goods and services can be consumed at once? This is the problem with gold. It does not work for big economies because it is so scarce in quantity.

Inflation is 2-3% a year because GDP grows at that rate. The amount of currency in a country has to correspond to the amount of goods and services that country produces. Meaning, if you gave all of the United States currency to one person, that person should technically be able to purchase $15.6 trillion worth of goods and services. Imagine if gold were the United States currency. Although we'd have $15.6 trillion worth of goods and services in the economy, that person would only be able to purchase say $1 trillion worth using ALL of the currency in the country. That doesn't seem right, does it?

The United States Dollar is perfectly fine. If you read the most recent F.O.M.C meeting minutes, the central tendency projections for PCE index growth are expected to remain around 2% through 2017 (despite a $2.8 trillion Fed balance sheet). It's very easy to criticize Krugman and the Fed, but you have to remember, conducting proper economics and monetary policy in today's extremely unconventional times is like hitting a moving target that varies in pace. It's not just about reinstating gold as a national currency, nor is it about prescribing the right tool. It's a deeply structural problem, and if you believe that we will live better in 10 years than we do today (which has happened every decade for the last century, so I wouldn't bet against it), then the dollar is just fine as a medium of exchange.

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WallStreetOasis.com's picture

SirTradesaLot: Jared -- I

WallStreetOasis.com
      EN
 
 
(Human, 12,074
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 6:08pm
SirTradesaLot:

Jared -- I loved your book Street Freak. If you write another book, I'll buy it. In fact, if your second book sucks, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and buy book 3. That's how much I liked Street Freak.

100% agree - was an awesome read. just finished it over my vacation.

WSO Conference 2013

Private Certified User Chat

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Anthropaid's picture

That Oceans comment reminded

Anthropaid
     
 
(Senior Chimp, 23
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 6:56pm

That Oceans comment reminded me of Evil Genius. Did anyone here ever play that game as a kid? You could steal a one million dollar bill as a piece of "über loot" in the game. To put this in perspective of rediculousness, it was on par with stealing the Ark and stealing the Eiffel Tower with a shrink ray. What does this say about a trillion dollar coin?

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digikc94's picture

Great post man thanks a bunch

digikc94
      PE
 
(Monkey, 52
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 7:26pm

Great post man thanks a bunch

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byucko's picture

SlikRick: I need someone to

byucko
      CD
 
(Senior Monkey, 72
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 9:33pm
SlikRick:

I need someone to explain this to me. According to the Washington Post article:

To back up a minute, it is important to understand what the debt ceiling does, and why it is problematic. Congress passes laws to spend money: This many dollars for fighter aircraft, Social Security benefits paid according to such and such formula, and so on. It passes laws to enact a tax code. And the difference between that spending and the money raised in taxes the government funds by issuing debt. But Congress also has a third constraint: An overall ceiling on how much debt the Treasury can issue. In the past, Congress has raised that ceiling to whatever it needed to be to match the previously approved taxes and spending as a matter of course.

Now, House Republicans are viewing the debt ceiling differently. They are treating the debt ceiling–and the need to raise it–as a lever through which to try to win battles over spending that they lost in previous negotiations. They want to not pass an increase to the debt ceiling unless they get some major concessions from Democrats on cutting spending—concessions that Democratic senators and the White House say are non-starters.

Isn't the purpose of the debt ceiling to ensure fiscal responsibility and to prevent rampant spending? At what point does the US begin to pay back its debt? Seriously, at one point does the Fed write a check to China, paying back both interest AND PRINCIPAL? That is the idea correct? The goal is to one day knock the debt down to zero right? Am I missing something here?

The idea is - and I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong - any nation would want some level of debt. That's right, because if the country is not borrowing and taking on debt then it is not operating as efficiently or effectively as it can. Think about two large businesses in any field - with one that borrows and one that doesn't. Obviously debt financing offers a sort of competitive advantage.

The goal would be to stagger the debt so that new debt arrives once old invoices are paid off. That way, interest expenses would be under control. Unfortunately that isn't how the US government has run the country at all.

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eokpar02's picture

abey1: So what happens if a

eokpar02
      EN
 
(Senior Gorilla, 779
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 5:14am
abey1:

So what happens if a country produces $15.6 trillion worth of goods and services, but because the amount of currency is so finite, only $1 trillion of those goods and services can be consumed at once? This is the problem with gold. It does not work for big economies because it is so scarce in quantity.

I will never understand people who argue against a free market for currency. Gold would just increase in regards to its buying power, and also the incentive to mine gold and to find alternative sources for gold would drastically increase. Saying only 1 trillion dollars of 15.6 trillion dollars of goods would be consumed assumes a ceteris paribus situation. Also, compare America during the time of the gold standard to the time of fiat currency. The only people who benefit from fiat currency is the government, banks and entrenched interests.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

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HoldenC's picture

While spot on how rediculous

HoldenC
      O
 
(Senior Monkey, 70
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 5:03pm

While spot on how rediculous (and dangerous) of an idea this is , there were a few points to clarify. The Treasury could not deposit the coin for $3 trillion at the fed AND pay off $3 trillion in debt (bonds). It can do either or. The reason the fed comes into this is because it is the bank to the federal government. For example, to make interest payments on Treasury Bonds, the Treasury department instructs the New York Fed to make wire transfers from the Treasury designated account to the holders of the securities (as defined in the Fedwire Securities system).

I think one of the stupidest reasons for this (beyond the immediate inflationary effect) would be the signal that monetory policy is no longer independent from fiscal policy. It basically allows the exective branch to print money, undermining the role of an independent central bank. While some may say that this is a major exception, I wouldn't be surprised if Treasuries went up some bps (in the near term) due to this. In essence, this increase in interest payments may offset all the potential spending cuts Republicans are risking a default over. The bottom line is we're all screwed when you place the credit worthiness of your country into the hands of American politicans.

I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them.

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HoldenC's picture

Btw, the guys at Planet Money

HoldenC
      O
 
(Senior Monkey, 70
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 5:06pm

Btw, the guys at Planet Money (NPR) did an awesome podcast back during the 2011 debt ceiling debate on the origins and idiocy of the debt ceiling.

I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them.

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The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

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Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
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