4/18/12

Suppose you've got yourself a pet project, one that's very near and dear to your heart. You've spent a ton of time, sweat, and treasure to get this thing up and running on its own, but try as you might, it just doesn't seem to be working out. How do you approach it?

If you're Jim Rogers, the answer is: Cut it off, say sayonara, and let it fix itself.

Step 1. Canceling all the African nations' debt, he claims in "Adventure Capitalist," will save the continent $30 billion in annual financing fees (in 2001 money). That's of course, assuming that these nations would put those savings to productive use (instead of on things like armies, private jets, and lavish palaces--but really, who would do that?).
But ah, there's a solution for all those wars as well, says our pal Jim.

Step 2. Simply have the existing African nations form a parliament and re-draw all the present borders, many of which were set up by the colonial powers with no idea of the conflicts that would result. No UN involved, just them. Of course, getting more than thirty nations together not only to calmly talk things out but also take action (!) makes the formation of the EU seem like a cakewalk.

Oh, and part 3 is that all the foreign aid to Africa gets shut off as a condition of the debt cancellation. Of all the parts of this plan, this is the one that makes most sense to me. Most of it ends up being stolen by warlords, corrupt officials, and sham NGOs anyway, which no one really contests. It wouldn't be such a problem if we just, I don't know, bothered to watch the money--but who wants to do that? Better to just say, "I increased foreign aid" to win votes.

Like many of the strident libertarian ideas he espouses in his book, this one operates on some generous assumptions. I admit after so many decades of frustration, the plan is appealing at least as a means of shutting up the critics who scream that Africa's problems are entirely the fault of the West. But if Jim's plan doesn't work, we'll still be left holding the chicken. Seems like a lose-lose situation, almost.

Or is this the right way to go? Is it crazy enough that it just might work? Or is something more moderate/practical the way to go?

Comments (175)

Best Response
4/18/12

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

4/18/12
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Spoken like a true realist.

4/18/12
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Wow, I don't think I could agree more with this guy...

4/18/12
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Sub-Saharan Africa at 1950-60s were at the same level as East Asia. And what about Botswana - the country is a phenomenal success minus the AIDS epidemic.

Seems like there are some racists in this thread.

4/18/12
JeremyLinMVP:
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Sub-Saharan Africa at 1950-60s were at the same level as East Asia. And what about Botswana - the country is a phenomenal success minus the AIDS epidemic.

Seems like there are some racists in this thread.

Some? Heh.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
JeremyLinMVP:
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Sub-Saharan Africa at 1950-60s were at the same level as East Asia. And what about Botswana - the country is a phenomenal success minus the AIDS epidemic.

Seems like there are some racists in this thread.

Read what he said, ''average African village today'', he didn't specify. You've given a single example, good job.

Not racists, realists. This situation has been going on forever, do you seriously think it'll be considerably different in 60 years time?

4/18/12
Zalachenko:
JeremyLinMVP:
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Sub-Saharan Africa at 1950-60s were at the same level as East Asia. And what about Botswana - the country is a phenomenal success minus the AIDS epidemic.

Seems like there are some racists in this thread.

Read what he said, ''average African village today'', he didn't specify. You've given a single example, good job.

Not racists, realists. This situation has been going on forever, do you seriously think it'll be considerably different in 60 years time?

What's this? Forever? When did this forever start? in the 1600-1900s when europe was trawling africa for slaves? In the 19th - 20th centuries when Africa was colonially controlled? In the 50's and 60's when the leadership was skewed heavily by unnecessary western meddling in african politics?

No seriously, define this "forever", please.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Zalachenko:
JeremyLinMVP:
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Sub-Saharan Africa at 1950-60s were at the same level as East Asia. And what about Botswana - the country is a phenomenal success minus the AIDS epidemic.

Seems like there are some racists in this thread.

Read what he said, ''average African village today'', he didn't specify. You've given a single example, good job.

Not racists, realists. This situation has been going on forever, do you seriously think it'll be considerably different in 60 years time?

What's this? Forever? When did this forever start? in the 1600-1900s when europe was trawling africa for slaves? In the 19th - 20th centuries when Africa was colonially controlled? In the 50's and 60's when the leadership was skewed heavily by unnecessary western meddling in african politics?

No seriously, define this "forever", please.

It's not relevant to the topic, my point was that the situation in Africa has pretty much been in the same conditions since the start of Modern History (even though it goes far before that) and it's highly unlikely it'll change - at least anytime soon.

4/18/12
Zalachenko:
Anomanderis:
Zalachenko:
JeremyLinMVP:
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Sub-Saharan Africa at 1950-60s were at the same level as East Asia. And what about Botswana - the country is a phenomenal success minus the AIDS epidemic.

Seems like there are some racists in this thread.

Read what he said, ''average African village today'', he didn't specify. You've given a single example, good job.

Not racists, realists. This situation has been going on forever, do you seriously think it'll be considerably different in 60 years time?

What's this? Forever? When did this forever start? in the 1600-1900s when europe was trawling africa for slaves? In the 19th - 20th centuries when Africa was colonially controlled? In the 50's and 60's when the leadership was skewed heavily by unnecessary western meddling in african politics?

No seriously, define this "forever", please.

It's not relevant to the topic, my point was that the situation in Africa has been pretty much been in the same conditions since the start of Modern History (even though it goes far before that) and it's highly unlikely it'll change - at least anytime soon.

Dude, break it down, how do you mean "pretty much in the same conditions"? Africans in say, my grandfather's day walked hundreds of miles from one city to another, farmed with hoes and cutlasses, were to a large extent illiterate, and had no centres of civilization whatsoever. Is this still the case?

Explain yourself, O Zalachenko; which villages in africa have you been to that haven't changed since the beginning of "modern history (a rather spurious term)? Define modern history. Then define change.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Zalachenko:
Anomanderis:
Zalachenko:
JeremyLinMVP:
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Sub-Saharan Africa at 1950-60s were at the same level as East Asia. And what about Botswana - the country is a phenomenal success minus the AIDS epidemic.

Seems like there are some racists in this thread.

Read what he said, ''average African village today'', he didn't specify. You've given a single example, good job.

Not racists, realists. This situation has been going on forever, do you seriously think it'll be considerably different in 60 years time?

What's this? Forever? When did this forever start? in the 1600-1900s when europe was trawling africa for slaves? In the 19th - 20th centuries when Africa was colonially controlled? In the 50's and 60's when the leadership was skewed heavily by unnecessary western meddling in african politics?

No seriously, define this "forever", please.

It's not relevant to the topic, my point was that the situation in Africa has been pretty much been in the same conditions since the start of Modern History (even though it goes far before that) and it's highly unlikely it'll change - at least anytime soon.

Dude, break it down, how do you mean "pretty much in the same conditions"? Africans in say, my grandfather's day walked hundreds of miles from one city to another, farmed with hoes and cutlasses, were to a large extent illiterate, and had no centres of civilization whatsoever. Is this still the case?

Explain yourself, O Zalachenko; which villages in africa have you been to that haven't changed since the beginning of "modern history (a rather spurious term)? Define modern history. Then define change.

Where's this hate coming from? I've spent a month a year for the last 3 helping a community in the west of Uganda, near the border with the Congo and it's not that different today - in regard to your example. No water within 2-3km, 1 ''school'' which we funded and helped building throughout 4 months, insecurity, diseases and lack of community spirit amongst the people, etc... It's a horrible situation and the worse part is that the surrounding villages aren't in any better conditions.

4/18/12
Zalachenko:
Anomanderis:
Zalachenko:
Anomanderis:
Zalachenko:
JeremyLinMVP:
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

Sub-Saharan Africa at 1950-60s were at the same level as East Asia. And what about Botswana - the country is a phenomenal success minus the AIDS epidemic.

Seems like there are some racists in this thread.

Read what he said, ''average African village today'', he didn't specify. You've given a single example, good job.

Not racists, realists. This situation has been going on forever, do you seriously think it'll be considerably different in 60 years time?

What's this? Forever? When did this forever start? in the 1600-1900s when europe was trawling africa for slaves? In the 19th - 20th centuries when Africa was colonially controlled? In the 50's and 60's when the leadership was skewed heavily by unnecessary western meddling in african politics?

No seriously, define this "forever", please.

It's not relevant to the topic, my point was that the situation in Africa has been pretty much been in the same conditions since the start of Modern History (even though it goes far before that) and it's highly unlikely it'll change - at least anytime soon.

Dude, break it down, how do you mean "pretty much in the same conditions"? Africans in say, my grandfather's day walked hundreds of miles from one city to another, farmed with hoes and cutlasses, were to a large extent illiterate, and had no centres of civilization whatsoever. Is this still the case?

Explain yourself, O Zalachenko; which villages in africa have you been to that haven't changed since the beginning of "modern history (a rather spurious term)? Define modern history. Then define change.

Where's this hate coming from? I've spent a month a year for the last 3 helping a community in the west of Uganda, near the border with the Congo and it's not that different today - in regard to your example. No water within 2-3km, 1 ''school'' which we funded and helped building throughout 4 months, insecurity, diseases and lack of community spirit amongst the people, etc... It's a horrible situation and the worse part is that the surrounding villages aren't in any better conditions.

Right. So you know one village in a recently war torn country (Uganda). Did you get to the capital? Was the capital in the same state since the beginning of history? How about the population, are they the same as they were since the beginning of history? How did you get to that village, did you walk all the way from say - Egypt, or Libya, the closest non sub-saharan countries?

Have you been to Serbia/Macedonia or even some parts of Russia? These are definitely not sub-saharan countries.

There are towns in this country (US) which feel like they sprang out of the sixties. One village in Uganda doesn't make an entire sub-continent.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/19/12
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

This has 4 SBs?

Who the hell had heard of Japan prior to 1868? What had they contributed to society? In ~30 years, they became a world power. Just because Africa has historically sucked doesn't mean that they'll never amount to anything. They've got a lot of potential.

The main reason they're in such a shitty state is 1. corruption 2. nobody ever gave a shit about them. Europeans/Arabs just came to Africa to take slaves and resources in exchange for guns and drugs. Do that for 500 years and it's not really surprising why they're doing so shitty. Sure other places were colonized too like South America and Southeast Asia, but the difference is that the colonizers actually put effort into developing the infrastructure there (eg. Hong Kong, Singapore, India). They never put that level of effort into developing Africa. Most countries in Sub-Saharan Africa trade more with the outside world than they do with their neighbors. Why? Because of this lack of infrastructure.

Unlike what a lot of you guys seem to be suggesting, the reason for their current state isn't due to inferior genetics. If Africa can find a way to reduce the extreme levels of political corruption and solve this AIDS problem, then they will emerge as a real global player in our lifetimes. The fact that they didn't have aqueducts 2000 years ago doesn't change this.

4/22/12
PetEng:

Africa isn't fixable. Rome was more advanced 2000 years ago than the average African village today. They haven't closed the gap in 2000 years. If you can't close it in 100 generations it can't be closed.

get em

4/18/12

You gotta recut the map by digging a moat around each country. That would stop all of the foreign invasions. The problem with Africa is that any time anyone gets something going, some group of assholes comes in and messes it up. I'm telling you, moats is the only solution. Really, really big moats.

4/18/12

did someone say Kony?

4/18/12

This American Capitalist book must be pretty damn good

4/18/12

Rome was also more advanced than the average Asian (even some european) village today.

painfully dumb analogy. Some people really need to travel out of the country to get some perspective

4/18/12

^Bullshit, look at the difference between North and South Korea. You could've said the same thing before and now look at how political and economic institutions change the world and the country.

4/18/12

double

4/18/12
Abdel:
Anomanderis:

Sure they will. 120million+ Nigerians obviously live off the "white man". The oil in Gabon will magically dry out. The internal industries will disappear in a heartbeat. The farms will fail, the electrical power will cease, and all the banks and manufacturing will grind to a halt the moment the white man stopped,

And who brought all of these things to africans? Did they developped all these by themselves or was it the white man?

Anomanderis:

How many Africans do you know? I insult you because you made a foolish remark, and because you have a history of making foolish remarks when Africans are concerned. Seriously, you think most Africans in this country live on welfare? How about Arabs in this country, do they all vote republican?

Not sure how my remarks are foolish when it comes to africans when I'm only stating facts.

Who cares how they were developed? Arabia didn't develop their own oil either, they needed the "white man" to assist with that, and one can argue that the Arab (okay, not the arab, but the middle-eastern indigenous tribes - persians, assyrians, turks, armenians) are some of the oldest civilizations known to mankind.

Abdel. You're wrong. Accept it and stop trying to explain yourself away. You're ignorant about africa, embrace it.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Anomanderis:

Sure they will. 120million+ Nigerians obviously live off the "white man". The oil in Gabon will magically dry out. The internal industries will disappear in a heartbeat. The farms will fail, the electrical power will cease, and all the banks and manufacturing will grind to a halt the moment the white man stopped,

And who brought all of these things to africans? Did they developped all these by themselves or was it the white man?

Anomanderis:

How many Africans do you know? I insult you because you made a foolish remark, and because you have a history of making foolish remarks when Africans are concerned. Seriously, you think most Africans in this country live on welfare? How about Arabs in this country, do they all vote republican?

Not sure how my remarks are foolish when it comes to africans when I'm only stating facts.

Who cares how they were developed? Arabia didn't develop their own oil either, they needed the "white man" to assist with that, and one can argue that the Arab (okay, not the arab, but the middle-eastern indigenous tribes - persians, assyrians, turks, armenians) are some of the oldest civilizations known to mankind.

Abdel. You're wrong. Accept it and stop trying to explain yourself away. You're ignorant about africa, embrace it.

Who cares? Well, I do.

As far as for arabs, sure, since islam came, it slowed us down alot over time. But at the end of the day, we provided some advancements to humanity (writing, algebra, advancement in many science fields etc etc..)

Now tell me what are the concrete contributions of africans to humanity at any point in time? lol

4/18/12
Abdel:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Anomanderis:

Sure they will. 120million+ Nigerians obviously live off the "white man". The oil in Gabon will magically dry out. The internal industries will disappear in a heartbeat. The farms will fail, the electrical power will cease, and all the banks and manufacturing will grind to a halt the moment the white man stopped,

And who brought all of these things to africans? Did they developped all these by themselves or was it the white man?

Anomanderis:

How many Africans do you know? I insult you because you made a foolish remark, and because you have a history of making foolish remarks when Africans are concerned. Seriously, you think most Africans in this country live on welfare? How about Arabs in this country, do they all vote republican?

Not sure how my remarks are foolish when it comes to africans when I'm only stating facts.

Who cares how they were developed? Arabia didn't develop their own oil either, they needed the "white man" to assist with that, and one can argue that the Arab (okay, not the arab, but the middle-eastern indigenous tribes - persians, assyrians, turks, armenians) are some of the oldest civilizations known to mankind.

Abdel. You're wrong. Accept it and stop trying to explain yourself away. You're ignorant about africa, embrace it.

Who cares? Well, I do.

As far as for arabs, sure, since islam came, it slowed us down alot over time. But at the end of the day, we provided some advancements to humanity (writing, algebra, advancement in many science fields etc etc..)

Now tell me what are the concrete contributions of africans to humanity at any point in time? lol

Really? The fact that Africa is in anyway comparable to Arabia at the moment (and yes, it is compared to other nations) is a clear sign of how quickly things can go pear-shaped. Africa hasn't been hooked up with the mainstream of human civilization anywhere as close as Arabia has. Arabia is bang in the middle of the fertile crescent, and you guys still fucked it up.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/20/12
Abdel:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Anomanderis:

Sure they will. 120million+ Nigerians obviously live off the "white man". The oil in Gabon will magically dry out. The internal industries will disappear in a heartbeat. The farms will fail, the electrical power will cease, and all the banks and manufacturing will grind to a halt the moment the white man stopped,

And who brought all of these things to africans? Did they developped all these by themselves or was it the white man?

Anomanderis:

How many Africans do you know? I insult you because you made a foolish remark, and because you have a history of making foolish remarks when Africans are concerned. Seriously, you think most Africans in this country live on welfare? How about Arabs in this country, do they all vote republican?

Not sure how my remarks are foolish when it comes to africans when I'm only stating facts.

Who cares how they were developed? Arabia didn't develop their own oil either, they needed the "white man" to assist with that, and one can argue that the Arab (okay, not the arab, but the middle-eastern indigenous tribes - persians, assyrians, turks, armenians) are some of the oldest civilizations known to mankind.

Abdel. You're wrong. Accept it and stop trying to explain yourself away. You're ignorant about africa, embrace it.

Who cares? Well, I do.

As far as for arabs, sure, since islam came, it slowed us down alot over time. But at the end of the day, we provided some advancements to humanity (writing, algebra, advancement in many science fields etc etc..)

Now tell me what are the concrete contributions of africans to humanity at any point in time? lol

Islam also brought terrorism and that other Jihad bullshit.

Long Live Israel!!

4/18/12

Zalachenko: Look at how the world changed as a result of the industrial revolution. Look at how Japan has grown after throwing away its inner looking attitude. Look at how China has grown by changing its political and economic policies. 60 years is plenty of time.

4/18/12

Re-reading these posts makes me worry for wall street, the vast majority of you guys are Sarah Palin level dumb. DUMB. Africa is less developed that Rome 2000 years ago? By what standard is that statement made if I may ask? How are you measuring this "underdevelopment"?

I'm just stunned, stunned. I thought this level of ignorance only existed in the backroads of the south.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:

Re-reading these posts makes me worry for wall street, the vast majority of you guys are Sarah Palin level dumb. DUMB. Africa is less developed that Rome 2000 years ago? By what standard is that statement made if I may ask? How are you measuring this "underdevelopment"?

I'm just stunned, stunned. I thought this level of ignorance only existed in the backroads of the south.

Honestly I can't tell if this is a troll or not but I'll give it a swing since this is some Grade-A brainwashed gender studies trust fund white chick from the suburbs liberalism here.

How are we measuring development...you cannot be serious. The Romans had massive aqueducts that stretched hundreds of miles. They conquered most of the Mediterranean and Europe. They created a language that spawned many other languages we use today and the alphabet you use right now. They gave us the Colosseum which is 2 millenia old and still stands today and countless other architectural feats. They gave us running hot and cold water in homes as well as a sewer system 2,000 years ago, things which didn't appear in Europe again until the 1800s. They gave us the foundations of modern public law and governments (the Twelve Tables). They gave us some of the greatest leaders of all time like Julius and Augustus Caesar and Constantine. They gave us modern military tactics. They gave us western society you fucking imbecile, the type of government and life pretty much the whole world tries to emulate.

How much of Africa has running water in homes? What about an empire spanning dozens of ethnic and religious groups united under one language or leader? A sophisticated government that can collect taxes and administer peaceful rule over thousands of miles? What are some African pieces of architecture that are still standing today after 2,000 years? What African pieces of technology do we use today?

Today modern Africans stick sticks through their faces and burn people for being "witches." I would also challenge you to name a significant, relevant African (as in not based off of European or other technology) invention that we use today. Ever. Every single piece of advanced technology in Africa is because of outside influence. Literally everything.

Oh and colonialism was the greatest thing to ever happen to Africa since Europeans brought them, you know, civilization. The funniest part of African "history" is Liberia where a bunch of slaves decided they didn't like living in America with food, roads, technology, etc. anymore, and decided to go back to Africa and start Liberia (using a Western (American) flag, with a country whose name has a Latin root, and whose official language is English), which inevitably ended in two civil wars. The Balkans and parts of Asia got just as fucked up as Africa and they aren't killing each other anymore.

And do you remember the part in world history where African tribal leaders rounded other tribes up to sell them to the Europeans? Or did your professor conveniently skip that part?

You can fix poverty. You can fix political strife. You cannot fix a 20% IQ gap between races. It's no coincidence that the most advanced country in Africa is also the whitest--South Africa.

Google "Charles Darwin Africans quote." It is incorrectly attributed to Darwin but the message is perfectly clear.

4/18/12
FusRoDah:
Anomanderis:

Re-reading these posts makes me worry for wall street, the vast majority of you guys are Sarah Palin level dumb. DUMB. Africa is less developed that Rome 2000 years ago? By what standard is that statement made if I may ask? How are you measuring this "underdevelopment"?

I'm just stunned, stunned. I thought this level of ignorance only existed in the backroads of the south.

Honestly I can't tell if this is a troll or not but I'll give it a swing since this is some Grade-A brainwashed gender studies trust fund white chick from the suburbs liberalism here.

How are we measuring development...you cannot be serious. The Romans had massive aqueducts that stretched hundreds of miles. They conquered most of the Mediterranean and Europe. They created a language that spawned many other languages we use today and the alphabet you use right now. They gave us the Colosseum which is 2 millenia old and still stands today and countless other architectural feats. They gave us running hot and cold water in homes as well as a sewer system 2,000 years ago, things which didn't appear in Europe again until the 1800s. They gave us the foundations of modern public law and governments (the Twelve Tables). They gave us some of the greatest leaders of all time like Julius and Augustus Caesar and Constantine. They gave us modern military tactics. They gave us modern western society you fucking imbecile.

How much of Africa has running water in homes? What about an empire spanning dozens of ethnic and religious groups united under one language or leader? A sophisticated government that can collect taxes and administer peaceful rule over thousands of miles? What are some African pieces of architecture that are still standing today after 2,000 years? What African pieces of technology do we use today?

Today modern Africans stick sticks through their faces and burn people for being "witches." I would also challenge you to name a significant, relevant African (as in not based off of European or other technology) invention that we use today. Ever. Every single piece of advanced technology in Africa is because of outside influence. Literally everything.

Oh and colonialism was the greatest thing to ever happen to Africa since Europeans brought them, you know, civilization. The funniest part of African "history" is Liberia where a bunch of slaves decided they didn't like living in America with food, roads, technology, etc. anymore, and decided to go back to Africa and start Liberia (using a Western (American) flag, with a country whose name has a Latin root, and whose official language is English), which inevitably ended in two civil wars. The Balkans and parts of Asia got just as fucked up as Africa and they aren't killing each other anymore.

And do you remember the part in world history where African tribal leaders rounded other tribes up to sell them to the Europeans? Or did your professor conveniently skip that part?

You can fix poverty. You can fix political strife. You cannot fix a 20% IQ gap between races. It's no coincidence that the most advanced country in Africa is also the whitest--South Africa.

Google "Charles Darwin Africans quote." It is incorrectly attributed to Darwin but the message is perfectly clear.

Jesus wept.

I ask you - how many roman homes had this running water? How many? They built aqueducts - how many dams have been built in Africa?
Romans did NOT create a language, so that's plain tosh. If they conquered places, then their language will be spoken there, just like english and french are spoken in most african nations. Law and governments- mostly copied from the greeks, same as most of roman technology. I'll agree with the military tactics.

I agree about colonialism being the driving force of civilization - you could argue the same about western europe when they were colonized by rome, which was also heavily influenced by greece and persia.

IQ is extremely culturally biased, this has been proven over and over again.

The most advanced countries in the world are also white countries, though Asians constantly outscore whites in IQ tests, can you explain that? Fool.

Dude, you're an idiot and you don't know diddly. Ignorant fool. Africa has it's problems, nobody is debating that, but saying it's never going to change is foolish. Foolish.

Darwin died in 1882 - did all knowledge end at his death?

But the world is changing once again, we'll see what we end up with in the next 10/20 years.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:

I ask you - how many roman homes had this running water? How many? They built aqueducts - how many dams have been built in Africa?

Uhh, like 50% had running water dude. How many dams have been built in Africa, lol, what a hilariously ignorant statement. Who developed those dams? Who gave the Africans the technology to build huge permanent concrete structures that can hold back massive lakes and rivers while powering entire towns and cities with hydroelectric turbines?

Anomanderis:

Romans did NOT create a language, so that's plain tosh.

Explain yourself.

Anomanderis:

If they conquered places, then their language will be spoken there, just like english and french are spoken in most african nations.

Yeah, so because nowhere besides Africa speaks African languages, that proves they are too disorganized to conquer new territories, something pretty much every other civilization in history did.

Anomanderis:

Law and governments- mostly copied from the greeks

Trivial detail, still white people, still the foundations of western civilization.

Anomanderis:

IQ is extremely culturally biased, this has been proven over and over again.

Typical apologist drivel. It is no coincidence the places/cultures/races that score highest have the best quality of life. Liberals like to say "everyone is equal" but ignore every objective statistical measure and use emotion. You know IQ has a meaning, more than any other bullshit reason some communist professor can come up with.

Anomanderis:

The most advanced countries in the world are also white countries, though Asians constantly outscore whites in IQ tests, can you explain that? Fool.

That's because Asians are smarter academically than whites, duh. Asian countries are good copiers, not good innovators (but they had plenty of incredible inventions and accomplishments). Population problems aside, white and asian countries are pretty much the same (Japan, South Korea, etc.)

Anomanderis:

Dude, you're an idiot and you don't know diddly. Ignorant fool.

Yawn.

Anomanderis:

Africa has it's problems, nobody is debating that, but saying it's never going to change is foolish. Foolish.

Civil war then, civil war now.

Anomanderis:

But the world is changing once again, we'll see what we end up with in the next 10/20 years.

Africa will still be a total shithole, I guarantee it.

And you didn't address my point about inventions.

4/18/12
FusRoDah:
Anomanderis:

Re-reading these posts makes me worry for wall street, the vast majority of you guys are Sarah Palin level dumb. DUMB. Africa is less developed that Rome 2000 years ago? By what standard is that statement made if I may ask? How are you measuring this "underdevelopment"?

I'm just stunned, stunned. I thought this level of ignorance only existed in the backroads of the south.

Today modern Africans stick sticks through their faces and burn people for being "witches." I would also challenge you to name a significant, relevant African (as in not based off of European or other technology) invention that we use today. Ever. Every single piece of advanced technology in Africa is because of outside influence. Literally everything.

And do you remember the part in world history where African tribal leaders rounded other tribes up to sell them to the Europeans? Or did your professor conveniently skip that part?

I like this one.Sticks through their faces? hahaha. You mean like piercings right? I'm sure there are some tattooing as well

Oh - I never mentioned the slave trade as a problem for Africa. it happened, life goes on.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/22/12
FusRoDah:

How much of Africa has running water in homes? What about an empire spanning dozens of ethnic and religious groups united under one language or leader? A sophisticated government that can collect taxes and administer peaceful rule over thousands of miles? What are some African pieces of architecture that are still standing today after 2,000 years? What African pieces of technology do we use today?

Largely irrelevant; you could also argue that the Chinese are inherently unable to advance their selves given that the Chinese per capita income didnt grow AT ALL between ~1300 and the 1800s, even though they invented the compass, paper etc., though this was largely cultural and a function of the nature of their government and culture. However, Im sure we all know plenty of smart Chinese or Chinese Americans. Asians make, on average, the most of any race in the USA.

Today modern Africans stick sticks through their faces and burn people for being "witches." I would also challenge you to name a significant, relevant African (as in not based off of European or other technology) invention that we use today. Ever. Every single piece of advanced technology in Africa is because of outside influence. Literally everything.

Also irrelevant. Plenty of cultures are both superstitious and successful - see how many indians abort children based on their astrology. And noone says Indians in general are dumb.

Oh and colonialism was the greatest thing to ever happen to Africa since Europeans brought them, you know, civilization. The funniest part of African "history" is Liberia where a bunch of slaves decided they didn't like living in America with food, roads, technology, etc. anymore, and decided to go back to Africa and start Liberia (using a Western (American) flag, with a country whose name has a Latin root, and whose official language is English), which inevitably ended in two civil wars. The Balkans and parts of Asia got just as fucked up as Africa and they aren't killing each other anymore.

Culture isnt based in race; thats just a silly conclusion that only a really closed minded racist could endorse, and it demeans the achievements of those who created the better cultures out there, including Americas forefathers.

You can fix poverty. You can fix political strife. You cannot fix a 20% IQ gap between races. It's no coincidence that the most advanced country in Africa is also the whitest--South Africa.

The Jews who came to America from Europe in the early 20th century tested significantly below the average in IQ tests. They are now amongst the highest, and produce more Nobel prize winners than most other groups. Most groups do well when they come to a place where the culture fosters stable law based in judeo-christian morality.

"...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

  • Schopenhauer
4/19/12
Anomanderis:

Jesus, there's a nice racial twist on this forum right now.

Anomanderis:

Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

And yet:

Anomanderis:

Re-reading these posts makes me worry for wall street, the vast majority of you guys are Sarah Palin level dumb. DUMB. ... I'm just stunned, stunned. I thought this level of ignorance only existed in the backroads of the south.

It's amazing to me how people are so eager to call others racist/prejudiced, and yet in the same breath drop a massive negative generalization about the entire population of 15-20 states.

And don't try to tell me "oh it's the truth, I know racists in the south!", that's the same as me telling you "all black people are criminals, I know a black guy in jail!" But I'm sure you're much too level headed to say a thing like that, after all:

Anomanderis:

One village in Uganda doesn't make an entire sub-continent.

Take your righteous indignation elsewhere.

- Capt K -
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham

4/19/12
CaptK:
Anomanderis:

Jesus, there's a nice racial twist on this forum right now.

Anomanderis:

Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

And yet:

Anomanderis:

Re-reading these posts makes me worry for wall street, the vast majority of you guys are Sarah Palin level dumb. DUMB. ... I'm just stunned, stunned. I thought this level of ignorance only existed in the backroads of the south.

It's amazing to me how people are so eager to call others racist/prejudiced, and yet in the same breath drop a massive negative generalization about the entire population of 15-20 states.

And don't try to tell me "oh it's the truth, I know racists in the south!", that's the same as me telling you "all black people are criminals, I know a black guy in jail!" But I'm sure you're much too level headed to say a thing like that, after all:

Anomanderis:

One village in Uganda doesn't make an entire sub-continent.

Take your righteous indignation elsewhere.

Aha. "Backroads of the south" NOT 15-20 states. Backroads. Do you see the difference? No? You may want to move away from finance. Your math doesn't add up.

It takes a rather interesting cynicism to attack the "victim, while leaving the aggressors blameless.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/19/12
Anomanderis:
CaptK:
Anomanderis:

Jesus, there's a nice racial twist on this forum right now.

Anomanderis:

Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

And yet:

Anomanderis:

Re-reading these posts makes me worry for wall street, the vast majority of you guys are Sarah Palin level dumb. DUMB. ... I'm just stunned, stunned. I thought this level of ignorance only existed in the backroads of the south.

It's amazing to me how people are so eager to call others racist/prejudiced, and yet in the same breath drop a massive negative generalization about the entire population of 15-20 states.

And don't try to tell me "oh it's the truth, I know racists in the south!", that's the same as me telling you "all black people are criminals, I know a black guy in jail!" But I'm sure you're much too level headed to say a thing like that, after all:

Anomanderis:

One village in Uganda doesn't make an entire sub-continent.

Take your righteous indignation elsewhere.

Aha. "Backroads of the south" NOT 15-20 states. Backroads. Do you see the difference? No? You may want to move away from finance. Your math doesn't add up.

It takes a rather interesting cynicism to attack the "victim, while leaving the aggressors blameless.

I'm not even going to start this with you. You can nitpick on number of states, but my point remains - you skewer others for sweeping generalizations, yet you can't help yourself. Pot, kettle.

Also, I appreciate your compliment on the interestingness of my cynicism. Thank you.

- Capt K -
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham

4/19/12
CaptK:
Anomanderis:
CaptK:
Anomanderis:

Jesus, there's a nice racial twist on this forum right now.

Anomanderis:

Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

And yet:

Anomanderis:

Re-reading these posts makes me worry for wall street, the vast majority of you guys are Sarah Palin level dumb. DUMB. ... I'm just stunned, stunned. I thought this level of ignorance only existed in the backroads of the south.

It's amazing to me how people are so eager to call others racist/prejudiced, and yet in the same breath drop a massive negative generalization about the entire population of 15-20 states.

And don't try to tell me "oh it's the truth, I know racists in the south!", that's the same as me telling you "all black people are criminals, I know a black guy in jail!" But I'm sure you're much too level headed to say a thing like that, after all:

Anomanderis:

One village in Uganda doesn't make an entire sub-continent.

Take your righteous indignation elsewhere.

Aha. "Backroads of the south" NOT 15-20 states. Backroads. Do you see the difference? No? You may want to move away from finance. Your math doesn't add up.

It takes a rather interesting cynicism to attack the "victim, while leaving the aggressors blameless.

I'm not even going to start this with you. You can nitpick on number of states, but my point remains - you skewer others for sweeping generalizations, yet you can't help yourself. Pot, kettle.

Also, I appreciate your compliment on the interestingness of my cynicism. Thank you.

Again I disagree. I haven't referred to the entire south as anything. This is no sweeping generation. I have simply implied is a greater amount of ignorance in the rural parts of the USA than others. How you're able to equate that with some of the posts made here previous to my replies is a mystery to me, while rather cunningly refraining from making any comments about their positions.

If the guys had said something like "some villages in africa are behind and can never catch up", THEN I'd agree with you regarding my response.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12

The fact that (Sub-Saharan) Africa never developed written language speaks to the fact that it was never developed.

4/18/12
Amphipathic:

The fact that (Sub-Saharan) Africa never developed written language speaks to the fact that it was never developed.

This statement shows a profound lack of history and the evolution of writing.

Fact: Only ONE (or perhaps 2) culture ever developed written language, every other one absorbed or copied those two.

Western Europe certainly never developed written language, does this imply that western Europe was also never developed?

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:

The fact that (Sub-Saharan) Africa never developed written language speaks to the fact that it was never developed.

This statement shows a profound lack of history and the evolution of writing.

Fact: Only ONE (or perhaps 2) culture ever developed written language, every other one absorbed or copied those two.

Western Europe certainly never developed written language, does this imply that western Europe was also never developed?

You are missing my point. A civilization cannot progress without a written form of communication. Oral tradition is not an ideal or generally feasible way of transmitting knowledge, so technology, philosophy, law, etc. progress very slowly, if at all.

4/18/12
Amphipathic:
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:

The fact that (Sub-Saharan) Africa never developed written language speaks to the fact that it was never developed.

This statement shows a profound lack of history and the evolution of writing.

Fact: Only ONE (or perhaps 2) culture ever developed written language, every other one absorbed or copied those two.

Western Europe certainly never developed written language, does this imply that western Europe was also never developed?

You are missing my point. A civilization cannot progress without a written form of communication. Oral tradition is not an ideal or generally feasible way of transmitting knowledge, so technology, philosophy, law, etc. progress very slowly, if at all.

I agree in part, development will be severely restricted without written communication. The fact that you use that as a reason for a lack of development in africa today leaves me rather.... fascinated. Are you saying Africans can't currently read and write in english or french? Are you saying africans are too backward to use pens and pencils and paper? Are you saying there are no paper mills in africa?

Honestly, I don't understand what that has to do with this discussion at all.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:

The fact that (Sub-Saharan) Africa never developed written language speaks to the fact that it was never developed.

This statement shows a profound lack of history and the evolution of writing.

Fact: Only ONE (or perhaps 2) culture ever developed written language, every other one absorbed or copied those two.

Western Europe certainly never developed written language, does this imply that western Europe was also never developed?

You are missing my point. A civilization cannot progress without a written form of communication. Oral tradition is not an ideal or generally feasible way of transmitting knowledge, so technology, philosophy, law, etc. progress very slowly, if at all.

I agree in part, development will be severely restricted without written communication. The fact that you use that as a reason for a lack of development in africa today leaves me rather.... fascinated. Are you saying Africans can't currently read and write in english or french? Are you saying africans are too backward to use pens and pencils and paper? Are you saying there are no paper mills in africa?

Honestly, I don't understand what that has to do with this discussion at all.

Straw man much? Let me break it down for you, and we can see if YOU know how to read.

A: Africa (prior to colonization by Europeans) did not have written language.
B: A society without written language cannot progress without outside intervention, and will be undeveloped relative to societies with written language.

Conclusion: Africa (prior to colonization by Europeans) was undeveloped (relative to the rest of the world).

Your multicultural crap is not gonna fly, sorry.

4/18/12
Amphipathic:
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:

The fact that (Sub-Saharan) Africa never developed written language speaks to the fact that it was never developed.

This statement shows a profound lack of history and the evolution of writing.

Fact: Only ONE (or perhaps 2) culture ever developed written language, every other one absorbed or copied those two.

Western Europe certainly never developed written language, does this imply that western Europe was also never developed?

You are missing my point. A civilization cannot progress without a written form of communication. Oral tradition is not an ideal or generally feasible way of transmitting knowledge, so technology, philosophy, law, etc. progress very slowly, if at all.

I agree in part, development will be severely restricted without written communication. The fact that you use that as a reason for a lack of development in africa today leaves me rather.... fascinated. Are you saying Africans can't currently read and write in english or french? Are you saying africans are too backward to use pens and pencils and paper? Are you saying there are no paper mills in africa?

Honestly, I don't understand what that has to do with this discussion at all.

Straw man much? Let me break it down for you, and we can see if YOU know how to read.

A: Africa (prior to colonization by Europeans) did not have written language.
B: A society without written language cannot progress without outside intervention, and will be undeveloped relative to societies with written language.

Conclusion: Africa (prior to colonization by Europeans) was undeveloped (relative to the rest of the world).

Your multicultural crap is not gonna fly, sorry.

I agree.

Western Europe before colonization by Rome was also underdeveloped compared to the Mediterranean and Asia. Big deal. They also couldn't read or write for the most part, even without the massive geographical boundaries that isolated Africa.

Civilization is NOT developed in a vacuum.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/19/12
Amphipathic:
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:

The fact that (Sub-Saharan) Africa never developed written language speaks to the fact that it was never developed.

This statement shows a profound lack of history and the evolution of writing.

Fact: Only ONE (or perhaps 2) culture ever developed written language, every other one absorbed or copied those two.

Western Europe certainly never developed written language, does this imply that western Europe was also never developed?

You are missing my point. A civilization cannot progress without a written form of communication. Oral tradition is not an ideal or generally feasible way of transmitting knowledge, so technology, philosophy, law, etc. progress very slowly, if at all.

You do know that there are quite a few respectable universities in many countries of Africa, and that the Nigeria's education system (by my personal observation) prepares better science and engineering students than let's say India's; right?

More is good, all is better

4/18/12
FusRoDah:

^agreed abdel, Islam sucks but we need to give the Arabs credit where credit is due, mainly algebra

there are 4 cultures/races/societies that have never contributed anything to the world:

  1. sub saharan africans
  2. aboriginal australians
  3. "pacific islanders"
  4. native americans

Why stop today? If this poll had been taken say 1500 years ago, western europeans would have been on this list.

Incas were native americans, I think they did pretty well.

Jesus, there's a nice racial twist on this forum right now. Stormfront much?

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:

Why stop today? If this poll had been taken say 1500 years ago, western europeans would have been on this list.

Incas were native americans, I think they did pretty well.

Jesus, there's a nice racial twist on this forum right now. Stormfront much?

I'm still waiting bro:

''Now tell me what are the concrete contributions of africans to humanity at any point in time? ''

4/18/12
Abdel:
Anomanderis:

Why stop today? If this poll had been taken say 1500 years ago, western europeans would have been on this list.

Incas were native americans, I think they did pretty well.

Jesus, there's a nice racial twist on this forum right now. Stormfront much?

I'm still waiting bro:

''Now tell me what are the concrete contributions of africans to humanity at any point in time? ''

Hang on - has history ended?

Why not wait until everything has ended. We haven't done it yet != We can't do it.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Anomanderis:

Why stop today? If this poll had been taken say 1500 years ago, western europeans would have been on this list.

Incas were native americans, I think they did pretty well.

Jesus, there's a nice racial twist on this forum right now. Stormfront much?

I'm still waiting bro:

''Now tell me what are the concrete contributions of africans to humanity at any point in time? ''

Hang on - has history ended?

Why not wait until everything has ended. We haven't done it yet != We can't do it.

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO. I mean at least other races had their glory days.

Anyhow, the end of the world is scheduled on december 21st 2012, they better hurry up mayne. lol

4/18/12
Abdel:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Anomanderis:

Why stop today? If this poll had been taken say 1500 years ago, western europeans would have been on this list.

Incas were native americans, I think they did pretty well.

Jesus, there's a nice racial twist on this forum right now. Stormfront much?

I'm still waiting bro:

''Now tell me what are the concrete contributions of africans to humanity at any point in time? ''

Hang on - has history ended?

Why not wait until everything has ended. We haven't done it yet != We can't do it.

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO. I mean at least other races had their glory days.

Anyhow, the end of the world is scheduled on december 21st 2012, they better hurry up mayne. lol

Do you understand how truly diverse africa is? Do you understand how many collections of distinct nations exist in that land mass? Trust me, neither asia minor nor europe has even come close to understanding this. Before you can build any reasonable civilization, you MUST have a critical mass of people, with a steady food/water supply. This never existed in africa until European colonization. If we will compare achievements, let us at least have a baseline for such comparison.

But regardless, the idea and the thought that Africa is less developed that Rome was 2000 years ago is bullshit. Nonsense.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Abdel:
Anomanderis:

Do you understand how truly diverse africa is? Do you understand how many collections of distinct nations exist in that land mass? Trust me, neither asia minor nor europe has even come close to understanding this. Before you can build any reasonable civilization, you MUST have a critical mass of people, with a steady food/water supply. This never existed in africa until European colonization. If we will compare achievements, let us at least have a baseline for such comparison.

But regardless, the idea and the thought that Africa is less developed that Rome was 2000 years ago is bullshit. Nonsense.

I got a simple and serious question to ask you. How can you explain that africans were the easiest people to enslave in ALL human history?

I want a serious answer.

Abdel, you need to show that you have at least the slightest level of intellect.

Africans were the easiest people to enslave compared to who? Tell me, what collection of people in this world haven't suffered one form of enslavement or another?

Africans are simply victims of the most recent "acceptable" slavery.

Nothing new here mate, move along.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

4/18/12
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

4/18/12
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

My bigotry? Mine?

Are you fucking kidding me mate?

I repeat - the majority of the (non-religious) monuments in the middle east were built by persians and babylonians pre-arabic dominance. Ignorance is not understanding the difference. Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

Fool.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

My bigotry? Mine?

Are you fucking kidding me mate?

I repeat - the majority of the (non-religious) monuments in the middle east were built by persians and babylonians pre-arabic dominance. Ignorance is not understanding the difference. Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

Fool.

Name me one fucking monument that exists today that was built by Persians or Babylonians. I'll name you five others. Find me one I beg you.

4/18/12
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

My bigotry? Mine?

Are you fucking kidding me mate?

I repeat - the majority of the (non-religious) monuments in the middle east were built by persians and babylonians pre-arabic dominance. Ignorance is not understanding the difference. Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

Fool.

Name me one fucking monument that exists today that was built by Persians or Babylonians. I'll name you five others. Find me one I beg you.

no sir - you go first.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

My bigotry? Mine?

Are you fucking kidding me mate?

I repeat - the majority of the (non-religious) monuments in the middle east were built by persians and babylonians pre-arabic dominance. Ignorance is not understanding the difference. Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

Fool.

Name me one fucking monument that exists today that was built by Persians or Babylonians. I'll name you five others. Find me one I beg you.

no sir - you go first.

Lol a pussy that can't defend the point he brought up first. That's fine. So you say that Persians/Babylonians built everything before Islam came in. Have you heard of the Taj Mahal? The Dome of the Rock? The Castle of the Moors in Portugal? The entire city of Baghdad, Mecca, and more?

4/18/12
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

My bigotry? Mine?

Are you fucking kidding me mate?

I repeat - the majority of the (non-religious) monuments in the middle east were built by persians and babylonians pre-arabic dominance. Ignorance is not understanding the difference. Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

Fool.

Name me one fucking monument that exists today that was built by Persians or Babylonians. I'll name you five others. Find me one I beg you.

no sir - you go first.

Lol a pussy that can't defend the point he brought up first. That's fine. So you say that Persians/Babylonians built everything before Islam came in. Have you heard of the Taj Mahal? The Dome of the Rock? The Castle of the Moors in Portugal? The entire city of Baghdad, Mecca, and more?

Baghdad = Persia

Dome of the rock = religious

Taj Mahal = India, how is that in arabia?"

Castle of the moors - surely the Moor in that should ring a bell?

Funny thing - I actually think Mecca was built by other indigenous tribes.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

My bigotry? Mine?

Are you fucking kidding me mate?

I repeat - the majority of the (non-religious) monuments in the middle east were built by persians and babylonians pre-arabic dominance. Ignorance is not understanding the difference. Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

Fool.

Name me one fucking monument that exists today that was built by Persians or Babylonians. I'll name you five others. Find me one I beg you.

no sir - you go first.

Lol a pussy that can't defend the point he brought up first. That's fine. So you say that Persians/Babylonians built everything before Islam came in. Have you heard of the Taj Mahal? The Dome of the Rock? The Castle of the Moors in Portugal? The entire city of Baghdad, Mecca, and more?

Baghdad = Persia

Dome of the rock = religious

Taj Mahal = India, how is that in arabia?"

Castle of the moors - surely the Moor in that should ring a bell?

Funny thing - I actually think Mecca was built by other indigenous tribes.

You are so damn ignorant. I knew you couldn't even give a single answer yourself. Hahahahahah too easy.

  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad#Foundation idiot.
  2. One of the best pieces of Islamic art: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_Mahal
  3. So religion doesn't count as a monument? I guess the Catholic Church barely built any monuments.
  4. Should I wikipedia this for you too?

Wow you're embarrassing.

4/18/12
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

My bigotry? Mine?

Are you fucking kidding me mate?

I repeat - the majority of the (non-religious) monuments in the middle east were built by persians and babylonians pre-arabic dominance. Ignorance is not understanding the difference. Bigotry is well in full display on this thread, and it's not from me.

Fool.

Name me one fucking monument that exists today that was built by Persians or Babylonians. I'll name you five others. Find me one I beg you.

no sir - you go first.

Lol a pussy that can't defend the point he brought up first. That's fine. So you say that Persians/Babylonians built everything before Islam came in. Have you heard of the Taj Mahal? The Dome of the Rock? The Castle of the Moors in Portugal? The entire city of Baghdad, Mecca, and more?

Baghdad = Persia

Dome of the rock = religious

Taj Mahal = India, how is that in arabia?"

Castle of the moors - surely the Moor in that should ring a bell?

Funny thing - I actually think Mecca was built by other indigenous tribes.

You are so damn ignorant. I knew you couldn't even give a single answer yourself. Hahahahahah too easy.

  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad#Foundation idiot.
  2. One of the best pieces of Islamic art: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_Mahal
  3. So religion doesn't count as a monument? I guess the Catholic Church barely built any monuments.
  4. Should I wikipedia this for you too?

Wow you're embarrassing.

Ok, let's concede baghdad - how is that a grand monument? Rubbish, I was thinking about Babylon. Baghdad is a molehill in terms of epic human achievements

Taj Mahal IS in india. NOT arabia. Calling the Taj Arabian is as sound an argument as calling the egyptian pyramids (sub-saharan)African.

We're not discussing the catholic church are we?

You're a twit.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

And how is the "fertile crescent" desolate? Arabia is where civilization kicked off, they had a massive head start on the rest of the world. They had massive cities when western europe were daubing themselves in woad and wearing animal skins. And after all that, this is it? C'mon.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

And how is the "fertile crescent" desolate? Arabia is where civilization kicked off, they had a massive head start on the rest of the world. They had massive cities when western europe were daubing themselves in woad and wearing animal skins. And after all that, this is it? C'mon.

Wow can you make it easier for me? The Fertile Crescent is not in Arabia, here's proof since you apparently don't know: http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/babylonia/g/Fer.... Islam began in Mecca, desolate desert city, and the first Islamic community began in Medina.

4/18/12
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

And how is the "fertile crescent" desolate? Arabia is where civilization kicked off, they had a massive head start on the rest of the world. They had massive cities when western europe were daubing themselves in woad and wearing animal skins. And after all that, this is it? C'mon.

Wow can you make it easier for me? The Fertile Crescent is not in Arabia, here's proof since you apparently don't know: http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/babylonia/g/Fer.... Islam began in Mecca, desolate desert city, and the first Islamic community began in Medina.

Please tell me you're having a laugh?

"it covers Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq."

Where exactly is Arabia then?

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

And how is the "fertile crescent" desolate? Arabia is where civilization kicked off, they had a massive head start on the rest of the world. They had massive cities when western europe were daubing themselves in woad and wearing animal skins. And after all that, this is it? C'mon.

Wow can you make it easier for me? The Fertile Crescent is not in Arabia, here's proof since you apparently don't know: http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/babylonia/g/Fer.... Islam began in Mecca, desolate desert city, and the first Islamic community began in Medina.

Please tell me you're having a laugh?

"it covers Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq."

Where exactly is Arabia then?

You think Israel is in the Arabian Peninsula? "the center directly north of Arabia, and the east end at the north end of the Persian Gulf."

Even if you think that's true, that is not even close to where Islam began.

4/18/12
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
WSJ123:
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

Right. But today they contribute what?

And again, zero wasn't invented by Arabs, Arabs are a tribe of barbarians that overran the middle east. Zero was invented by native middle-eastern civilizations. All arabs have invented is Islam.

They created a giant empire in a largely desolate area that had been nearly entirely tribal in the past. They founded great monuments throughout the Middle East and in Israel today. They furthered philosophy and the arts during the dark ages. And you, my friend, contribute nothing to society but your ignorance and your bigotry.

And how is the "fertile crescent" desolate? Arabia is where civilization kicked off, they had a massive head start on the rest of the world. They had massive cities when western europe were daubing themselves in woad and wearing animal skins. And after all that, this is it? C'mon.

Wow can you make it easier for me? The Fertile Crescent is not in Arabia, here's proof since you apparently don't know: http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/babylonia/g/Fer.... Islam began in Mecca, desolate desert city, and the first Islamic community began in Medina.

Please tell me you're having a laugh?

"it covers Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq."

Where exactly is Arabia then?

You think Israel is in the Arabian Peninsula? "the center directly north of Arabia, and the east end at the north end of the Persian Gulf."

Even if you think that's true, that is not even close to where Islam began.

When did we start discussing islam? We're not discussing Islam, it's not my religion, I know it, I respect it, and I know nothing about it.

Go back and read the start of this discussion, try and read through a few posts, see Abdel's first few posts and try to understand the tone and subject of the discussion.

Asia Minor isn't the topic here.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/19/12
Abdel:
Abdel:

In other words, during the thousands of past years, they contributed ZERO.

o and the concept of zero was invented by Arabs. lol

sorry mate......concept of zero was brought about by indians...prob in bangalore day dreaming about getting work from westerners...

"A man travels the world over in search of what he needs and returns home to find it." ~George Moore

4/18/12

Patrick can some of these posters get banned? Seems like a Klan rally is going on in this thread. This is wallstreetoasis, not stormfront.com

4/18/12

ITT we have someone who has never been to Africa, who hasn't taken a shower without running water, who hasn't had to shit in a hole in the ground and wipe there ass with newspaper, who hasn't seen a vigilant group in broad daylight kill someone chop their legs and arms off and burn them in the middle of the road, who hasn't seen the former Vice President live in a CASTLE with armed guards surrounding it and have multiple brand new Mercedes. ITT we have a retard. Traveling to Africa doesn't mean you stayed in a hotel in the capital of the country you visited where you feel as though you are still in America. It's just like saying you've seen all of Mexico when you visited Cancun. Travel to "real" Africa and you will see that many places are so far behind its unbelievable..maybe not the Romans but its pretty damn close.

Also what does advancement have to do with IQ? IQ=advance. How about you try again?

And, yes I've traveled to Africa for more than just a few days.

Africa may change one day, but it will take something extremely dramatic.

Notice zero name calling.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

4/18/12
blackfinancier:

ITT we have someone who has never been to Africa, who hasn't taken a shower without running water, who hasn't had to shit in a hole in the ground and wipe there ass with newspaper, who hasn't seen a vigilant group in broad daylight kill someone chop their legs and arms off and burn them in the middle of the road, who hasn't seen the former Vice President live in a CASTLE with armed guards surrounding it and have multiple brand new Mercedes. ITT we have a retard. Traveling to Africa doesn't mean you stayed in a hotel in the capital of the country you visited where you feel as though you are still in America. It's just like saying you've seen all of Mexico when you visited Cancun. Travel to "real" Africa and you will see that many places are so far behind its unbelievable..maybe not the Romans but its pretty damn close.

Also what does advancement have to do with IQ? IQ=advance. How about you try again?

And, yes I've traveled to Africa for more than just a few days.

Africa may change one day, but it will take something extremely dramatic.

Notice zero name calling.

Shitting in a hole in the ground happens in more places than africa, try some of the arabian/asian villages.

Banditry isn't solely an african phenomenom either.

Outside a war zone, nobody is going to chop off your limbs and burn them in broad daylight, that requires some major social upheaval. They may do it at night though.

Many places in africa are behind, sure. Many places in Asia are also behind, I don't hear the unified condemnation of Asia.

Africa has many countries, some are ahead of others, it will SHOCK you how much more advanced parts of africa is than others.

IQ is partly genetic and partly social conditioning. It's also culturally skewed.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
blackfinancier:

ITT we have someone who has never been to Africa, who hasn't taken a shower without running water, who hasn't had to shit in a hole in the ground and wipe there ass with newspaper, who hasn't seen a vigilant group in broad daylight kill someone chop their legs and arms off and burn them in the middle of the road, who hasn't seen the former Vice President live in a CASTLE with armed guards surrounding it and have multiple brand new Mercedes. ITT we have a retard. Traveling to Africa doesn't mean you stayed in a hotel in the capital of the country you visited where you feel as though you are still in America. It's just like saying you've seen all of Mexico when you visited Cancun. Travel to "real" Africa and you will see that many places are so far behind its unbelievable..maybe not the Romans but its pretty damn close.

Also what does advancement have to do with IQ? IQ=advance. How about you try again?

And, yes I've traveled to Africa for more than just a few days.

Africa may change one day, but it will take something extremely dramatic.

Notice zero name calling.

Shitting in a hole in the ground happens in more places than africa, try some of the arabian/asian villages.

Banditry isn't solely an african phenomenom either.

Outside a war zone, nobody is going to chop off your limbs and burn them in broad daylight, that requires some major social upheaval. They may do it at night though.

Many places in africa are behind, sure. Many places in Asia are also behind, I don't hear the unified condemnation of Asia.

Africa has many countries, some are ahead of others, it will SHOCK you how much more advanced parts of africa is than others.

IQ is partly genetic and partly social conditioning. It's also culturally skewed.

...It isn't the fact that it is happening in more places than Africa it's the fact that its happening in the MAJORITY of Africa. Where I was wasn't a war zone but good try. Have you actually been to Africa in a non tourist function?

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

4/18/12
Abdel:

@Anomanderis - ok let me give you an easiest question to answer:

why black people cain't swim? lol

Whenever I hit the swimming pool, they're scared shitless to go where the waters deep.

On a more serious note, Congo has now a spacial program. I feel encouraged to see things like these. Maybe you are right, maybe we should give them some more time.

How many black people do you know? I know loads of black people who can swim.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12

Africa may be a shithole but most of it is not less developed than the roman empire. If you compare ppp gdp per capita, rome would fall in the bottom third of african countries.

4/18/12

The most sad thing about this thread is that the revisionist PC historians do more harm to Africa than racist white folk in America. Africa can't be fixed until we have a honest discussion of why it is so behind. But whatever, if folks want to screw over Africa's future so they can feel better about their race, go right ahead.

4/18/12
Amphipathic:

The most sad thing about this thread is that the revisionist PC historians do more harm to Africa than racist white folk in America. Africa can't be fixed until we have a honest discussion of why it is so behind. But whatever, if folks want to screw over Africa's future so they can feel better about their race, go right ahead.

No, no no no no. No discussion. Africa doesn't need your help. Africa has the resources, both human and natural to fix itself. Africa will have that discussion in due time.

Fuck this whole "we need to help africa and discuss what's wrong", they don't need your assistance, thanks but no thanks.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:

The most sad thing about this thread is that the revisionist PC historians do more harm to Africa than racist white folk in America. Africa can't be fixed until we have a honest discussion of why it is so behind. But whatever, if folks want to screw over Africa's future so they can feel better about their race, go right ahead.

No, no no no no. No discussion. Africa doesn't need your help. Africa has the resources, both human and natural to fix itself. Africa will have that discussion in due time.

Fuck this whole "we need to help africa and discuss what's wrong", they don't need your assistance, thanks but no thanks.

Thank you, Mr.Ambassador, I'm sure Africa is glad that you're speaking on their behalf.

4/18/12
Downeasta:
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:

The most sad thing about this thread is that the revisionist PC historians do more harm to Africa than racist white folk in America. Africa can't be fixed until we have a honest discussion of why it is so behind. But whatever, if folks want to screw over Africa's future so they can feel better about their race, go right ahead.

No, no no no no. No discussion. Africa doesn't need your help. Africa has the resources, both human and natural to fix itself. Africa will have that discussion in due time.

Fuck this whole "we need to help africa and discuss what's wrong", they don't need your assistance, thanks but no thanks.

Thank you, Mr.Ambassador, I'm sure Africa is glad that you're speaking on their behalf.

You're most welcome.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Amphipathic:

The most sad thing about this thread is that the revisionist PC historians do more harm to Africa than racist white folk in America. Africa can't be fixed until we have a honest discussion of why it is so behind. But whatever, if folks want to screw over Africa's future so they can feel better about their race, go right ahead.

No, no no no no. No discussion. Africa doesn't need your help. Africa has the resources, both human and natural to fix itself. Africa will have that discussion in due time.

Fuck this whole "we need to help africa and discuss what's wrong", they don't need your assistance, thanks but no thanks.

Well I'm a bit of an isolationist so I catch your drift.

4/18/12

My God....some of these posts are ridiculous.

No, the entire continent is not a bunch of spear-waving, drum-banging tribals.
That being said, as a continent, they are certainly faring the worst, compared to the rest. Why is that?

Let me address one comment that made me laugh a bit:
"I ask you - how many roman homes had this running water? How many? They built aqueducts - how many dams have been built in Africa?
Romans did NOT create a language, so that's plain tosh. If they conquered places, then their language will be spoken there, just like english and french are spoken in most african nations. Law and governments- mostly copied from the greeks, same as most of roman technology. I'll agree with the military tactics."

Well, buddy...all Romans had access to running water. No, the water didn't always flow directly into their houses, but yes, the entire population had pretty reliable access to drinking water. That is not the case with the majority of Africa.

Comparing the Roman aquaducts to building dams in Africa is foolish; Africa wouldn't benefit from dams, as water is in pretty scarce supply, and damming an entire river would severely detriment the people downstream. However, they would benefit from aquaducts..why haven't they made any? Just something to consider.

You also bring up the point about Rome conquering other nations and forcing them to speak their language, and how English and French (You forgot Dutch and Afrikaans, btw) are spoken in most African countries. So, why aren't any African languages spoken elsewhere in the world? Following your logic, it would be because African nations have never conquered and held nations on another continent. Why is that? Common sense would tell us that it is because the other nations are more advanced, politically and technologically.

I agree that IQ testing can have a cultural bias, but why hasn't Africa developed its own equivalent? It's entirely possible that the native population could excel in fields not covered in a standard IQ test.

Again, I'm not assigning any sort of value judgments to Africa as a whole, merely stating facts and following logic.

4/18/12
Downeasta:

My God....some of these posts are ridiculous.

No, the entire continent is not a bunch of spear-waving, drum-banging tribals.
That being said, as a continent, they are certainly faring the worst, compared to the rest. Why is that?

Let me address one comment that made me laugh a bit:
"I ask you - how many roman homes had this running water? How many? They built aqueducts - how many dams have been built in Africa?
Romans did NOT create a language, so that's plain tosh. If they conquered places, then their language will be spoken there, just like english and french are spoken in most african nations. Law and governments- mostly copied from the greeks, same as most of roman technology. I'll agree with the military tactics."

Well, buddy...all Romans had access to running water. No, the water didn't always flow directly into their houses, but yes, the entire population had pretty reliable access to drinking water. That is not the case with the majority of Africa.

Comparing the Roman aquaducts to building dams in Africa is foolish; Africa wouldn't benefit from dams, as water is in pretty scarce supply, and damming an entire river would severely detriment the people downstream. However, they would benefit from aquaducts..why haven't they made any? Just something to consider.

You also bring up the point about Rome conquering other nations and forcing them to speak their language, and how English and French (You forgot Dutch and Afrikaans, btw) are spoken in most African countries. So, why aren't any African languages spoken elsewhere in the world? Following your logic, it would be because African nations have never conquered and held nations on another continent. Why is that? Common sense would tell us that it is because the other nations are more advanced, politically and technologically.

I agree that IQ testing can have a cultural bias, but why hasn't Africa developed its own equivalent? It's entirely possible that the native population could excel in fields not covered in a standard IQ test.

Again, I'm not assigning any sort of value judgments to Africa as a whole, merely stating facts and following logic.

Hmm. Sub-saharan africa can be divided into three, north (Sudan/Ethiopea area), middle (say within the tropics) and south. Only the north has water issues, trust me. In most of the tropics, people dig wells within a day and hit water. Most of africa is rain forest with amazing amounts of rainfall and hence, water. Trust me, rome has nothing compared to africa in terms of running water, UNLESS you restrict your studies to countries that were recently war torn. Apart from Nigeria, most countries in west africa have steady uninterrupted power and water supply, try Ghana, ivory coast and burkina faso, within the urban areas.

See, nobody is arguing about africa being more advanced, it's a fact that Africa lags the rest of the world. This is however totally different from africa lagging 0B.C Rome, that just makes no sense to me in any way or form.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:

Hmm. Sub-saharan africa can be divided into three, north (Sudan/Ethiopea area), middle (say within the tropics) and south. Only the north has water issues, trust me. In most of the tropics, people dig wells within a day and hit water. Most of africa is rain forest with amazing amounts of rainfall and hence, water. Trust me, rome has nothing compared to africa in terms of running water.

God you just don't fucking get it do you. Digging a hole in the ground is not impressive. Building a gigantic system of 100-foot tall aqueducts using manual labor across an entire continent to create a running water system 2000 years ago is impressive.

According to your logic that's like saying having a fruit drop from a tree into your hand is as equally impressive as building a machine to pick the fruits for you.

It is not the Africans' fault they are dumb, their continent is/was relatively easy to live on so natural selection was slower there, less dumb people were killed off. But no amount of revisionist PC propaganda will change the fact that the average black man is dumber than the average white or Asian man. People accept racial physical differences fine (white people can't jump, Asians have tiny dicks, black guys have huge dicks, etc.) so I don't understand why mental differences are so off-topic despite their obviousness.

I can also tell from your diction that you're British or at least part of the commonwealth. It's tragic that your government/schools teach you so many ridiculous things that are demonstrably untrue, which is clearly evident in the fact that you are getting clobbered by multiple people in this debate.

And of course, you have not answered my question about African inventions, because there are none. Not one. Not in 100,000 years has the sub-Saharan African created a single thing of use for the rest of the world.

4/18/12
FusRoDah:

It is not the Africans' fault they are dumb, their continent is/was relatively easy to live on so natural selection was slower there, less dumb people were killed off. But no amount of revisionist PC propaganda will change the fact that the average black man is dumber than the average white or Asian man. People accept racial physical differences fine (white people can't jump, Asians have tiny dicks, black guys have huge dicks, etc.) so I don't understand why mental differences are so off-topic despite their obviousness.

While I don't disagree with much of what you said, this right here is pretty retarded. Played enough basketball to know white people certainly can jump. Have enough cousin's who go to IVYs or equivalent to know Africans aren't dumber than white men or Asian men. The small dicks thing only you'd be able to say for sure about that.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

4/18/12
bfin:
FusRoDah:

It is not the Africans' fault they are dumb, their continent is/was relatively easy to live on so natural selection was slower there, less dumb people were killed off. But no amount of revisionist PC propaganda will change the fact that the average black man is dumber than the average white or Asian man. People accept racial physical differences fine (white people can't jump, Asians have tiny dicks, black guys have huge dicks, etc.) so I don't understand why mental differences are so off-topic despite their obviousness.

While I don't disagree with much of what you said, this right here is pretty retarded. Played enough basketball to know white people certainly can jump. Have enough cousin's who go to IVYs or equivalent to know Africans aren't dumber than white men or Asian men. The small dicks thing only you'd be able to say for sure about that.

On average dumbass, not in every single case. Thousands of white people can jump very high. Thousands of black people can do matrix algebra and physics. Thousands of white people have 9 inch dicks (I dunno about Asians though, do we have any asians around here?) The AVERAGE black person is dumber than the AVERAGE white person or AVERAGE asian person.

If you skim from the top of a population (Ivy league schools) then obviously you are going to get some very smart people regardless of race. There are just proportionally less of them because their mean IQ is lower.

4/18/12
FusRoDah:
bfin:
FusRoDah:

It is not the Africans' fault they are dumb, their continent is/was relatively easy to live on so natural selection was slower there, less dumb people were killed off. But no amount of revisionist PC propaganda will change the fact that the average black man is dumber than the average white or Asian man. People accept racial physical differences fine (white people can't jump, Asians have tiny dicks, black guys have huge dicks, etc.) so I don't understand why mental differences are so off-topic despite their obviousness.

While I don't disagree with much of what you said, this right here is pretty retarded. Played enough basketball to know white people certainly can jump. Have enough cousin's who go to IVYs or equivalent to know Africans aren't dumber than white men or Asian men. The small dicks thing only you'd be able to say for sure about that.

On average dumbass, not in every single case. Thousands of white people can jump very high. Thousands of black people can do matrix algebra and physics. Thousands of white people have 9 inch dicks (I dunno about Asians though, do we have any asians around here?) The AVERAGE black person is dumber than the AVERAGE white person or AVERAGE asian person.

If you skim from the top of a population (Ivy league schools) then obviously you are going to get some very smart people regardless of race. There are just proportionally less of them because their mean IQ is lower.

Please present facts of what you are talking about thank you. Also stop name calling it doesn't help your arguments at all.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

4/18/12
bfin:
FusRoDah:
bfin:
FusRoDah:

It is not the Africans' fault they are dumb, their continent is/was relatively easy to live on so natural selection was slower there, less dumb people were killed off. But no amount of revisionist PC propaganda will change the fact that the average black man is dumber than the average white or Asian man. People accept racial physical differences fine (white people can't jump, Asians have tiny dicks, black guys have huge dicks, etc.) so I don't understand why mental differences are so off-topic despite their obviousness.

While I don't disagree with much of what you said, this right here is pretty retarded. Played enough basketball to know white people certainly can jump. Have enough cousin's who go to IVYs or equivalent to know Africans aren't dumber than white men or Asian men. The small dicks thing only you'd be able to say for sure about that.

On average dumbass, not in every single case. Thousands of white people can jump very high. Thousands of black people can do matrix algebra and physics. Thousands of white people have 9 inch dicks (I dunno about Asians though, do we have any asians around here?) The AVERAGE black person is dumber than the AVERAGE white person or AVERAGE asian person.

If you skim from the top of a population (Ivy league schools) then obviously you are going to get some very smart people regardless of race. There are just proportionally less of them because their mean IQ is lower.

Please present facts of what you are talking about thank you. Also stop name calling it doesn't help your arguments at all.

It's not my job to google things for you. Do it yourself, its all there.

4/18/12

So, why DOES Africa lag behind the rest of the world?

4/18/12
Downeasta:

So, why DOES Africa lag behind the rest of the world?

why does Asia lag Europe? Why does arabia lag everyone but Africa?

I'm not here to have that conversation, honestly I don't even have the answer.

But saying africans haven't progressed at all since the start of modern history, now that's an fallacy that's easy to discuss.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:
Downeasta:

So, why DOES Africa lag behind the rest of the world?

why does Asia lag Europe? Why does arabia lag everyone but Africa?

I'm not here to have that conversation, honestly I don't even have the answer.

But saying africans haven't progressed at all since the start of modern history, now that's an fallacy that's easy to discuss.

I like your style. I also agree that they have certainly progressed since the beginning of "modern history", whenever that is.

I disagree with you, when you compare Asia to Europe. I'm not comparing Africa to one other continent, I'm comparing it to the rest of the civilized world as a whole.

4/18/12
Downeasta:
Anomanderis:
Downeasta:

So, why DOES Africa lag behind the rest of the world?

why does Asia lag Europe? Why does arabia lag everyone but Africa?

I'm not here to have that conversation, honestly I don't even have the answer.

But saying africans haven't progressed at all since the start of modern history, now that's an fallacy that's easy to discuss.

I like your style. I also agree that they have certainly progressed since the beginning of "modern history", whenever that is.

I disagree with you, when you compare Asia to Europe. I'm not comparing Africa to one other continent, I'm comparing it to the rest of the civilized world as a whole.

I think it's a valid argument. There are different levels of development all across the world, it's not Africa and then everyone else, there are nations in-between, why single Africa out? The reality is that outside the core western nations, what you see in Africa is replicated in other countries, though possibly at much lower levels. I have theories as to why Africa is underdeveloped, but they are just that - theories, impossible to quantify or prove in anyway, so I won't be making any excuses.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/18/12
Anomanderis:

Why does arabia lag everyone but Africa?

Because Islam slowed us down but we'll come back.

4/18/12

Who gives a shit about all of this. Like a wealthy WASP mentopr once said, the only opinion that matters is smart money and smart money (Private equity firms, multinationals, Chinese setting up shop all across Africa) is long Africa and dumb money (people who judge based on what they see on cnn/media, people who have gone to a tiny remote town and feel they have an opinion) is cynical.

Your choice!

4/18/12

What you, as a citizen of this world, should NOT be doing in Africa:

Kony2012 campaigns or TOM shoes feel good aid.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it" - Voltaire

4/18/12

Anyone who thinks inherent intelligence is why certain civilizations "advance" faster than others needs to either reevaluate their motives or re-educate themselves about cultures and societies. I suggest perusing "Guns, Germs, and Steel" to get at least a base understanding of why Europeans were sailing in fleets while the Aborigines hadn't mastered fishing, trust me, nothing to do with brain-power. The distribution of human knowledge is the most important factor to societal "advancement", sub-saharan Africa was at a disadvantage from the beginning, knowledge did not travel past the Saharan as it did from the Chinese to Europe. As for the comment I read earlier on a written language, the poster was correct, written language is a key to "advancement" but it is also extremely difficult and only 2, maybe 3 times in the history of man has a culture "invented" written language. Chinese and Egyptians are the 2 that come to mind at the moment. It's sad that what looked to be a pretty good topic turned out to be a discussion on the inherent failures of Africans, or at least what people think are the inherent failures of Africans.

4/18/12

Another note, Nigerians who migrate to the U.S. have been documented to have some of the highest rates of college graduates/masters/ and PHDs. Give me a break with the brain power argument, I mean if you said Africans are just freaking greedy bastards that can't help but screw each other over I'd take you more seriously. The other argument is just too ignorant to handle.

4/18/12

This discussion is beyond funny. So we are talking about Rome, Persia etc. 500-700 years after the destruction of Rome, Europe was a total disaster. Did it come back yes, but it was a total hole then, led by the Catholic church.

This discussion for me cannot go beyond 100 years, if you present arguments from 500-800 years ago, you are really losing yourself. Was Africa a better continent than Europe 1000 years ago? Were the native in the "new world" in a better situation than Europe a 1000 years ago? Guess what native Americans don't even have a country they call home (culturally) anymore.

There are so many issues that intertwine that it would require research by Phds. We should stick to what we know (I guess what we think we know), Finance, some macro and micro economics.

As far as the question is concerned, Africa is lacking institutions, corruption is running amok, constant armed infighting and AIDS has been killing them literally the past 50 years. How can grow anything sustainable when your population dies within 40 years? All the resources are distributed to health care and the military (sounds familiar?). Europe biggest growth occur when they stopped fight each other on their own land like every 6 months, basically by fighting over the Atlantic and in the Americas. Even recent history shows us how the US became the superpower by not fighting on its soil.

I am pretty confident that as soon as they run democratic processes that are inclusive, they will pass laws and legislation that are for the good of all, not just the elite. No society can advance if only one group is moving forward; the average needs to move forward in order to stop rebellion, and political upheaval.

Societies take a ton of time to move forward, the first steps look invisible. It is like putting $100 with 10% interest. It looks immaterial now because you make $100K a year, but in 100 years, that $100 will be worth more than $1 million...it just takes time.

4/19/12

I'm actually working in Africa now. The place is doing more than alright and is no different to most Asian countries in the 50s & 60s. The IQ gap between the West and Africa is being bridged and I'm seeing it first-hand (not that IQ gaps primarily determine economic development). My local liaison in some remote country just completed his CPA (US) with no fails. He never went to a decent university. The average GCSE grades (UK highschool SAT equivalents) in my region are actually higher that the UK average. There's a report I read on Kenya by some Norwegians showing a drastic IQ increase in a population (fastest ever recorded for such studies).

Africa is fucked. And it'll be that way for a long time. But the notion that it will ALWAYS be that way is profoundly ignorant. Civilizations rise and fall. We are still a young species and there is plenty of time for things to change.

PS: A lot of ignorant and immature posts on this thread. Lost a lot of respect for the WSO community. I thought we were smarter than that. I'd advise everyone here to read Guns, Germs and Steel before engaging in a debate on race, intelligence and economic development. FusRoDah, Anomanderis et al. Please quit with the name-calling. You only embarrass yourselves.

4/19/12

It's also sad that a thread on "how to fix Africa" devolved into a spate of insults directed at Africans.

Again, some very small-minded people on WSO.

4/19/12

Oh come now Saucy, I'm the one at fault? Really?

While I appreciate your informed (though still somewhat laden with westernized bollocks - loads of Africans study strictly in Africa and are qualified) take on Africa, this rather feeble "middle-ground" that you're holding is somewhat less than appreciable. For some of us, the statements expressed on this forum are as offensive as being called the "N" word, especially when some snotty nosed kid considers that as fact. I consider that sort of thinking extremely dangerous, and I attack it with a sledgehammer.

You may have the benefit of the doubt. For a large sector of society, this sort of thinking is a hard glass ceiling on achievements and job prospects.

Regarding IQ, I simply disagree that it's an accurate measure of intelligence. Standard IQ tests are based skewed really sharply towards middle-class western values,

Incidentally, I quite agree with the OP. Africa doesn't need handouts from the west, Africa is well able to sort themselves out. Oh, and Africa is NOT fucked.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/19/12
Anomanderis:

Oh come now Saucy, I'm the one at fault? Really?

YES. Admittedly, the bigots on this tread have baited you into it.

While I appreciate your informed (though still somewhat laden with westernized bollocks - loads of Africans study strictly in Africa and are qualified) take on Africa, this rather feeble "middle-ground" that you're holding is somewhat less than appreciable.

Dont confuse my criticism with bigotry. And dont assume that everyone with less-than-positive reviews on Africa's growth prospects is a bonafide neo-Nazi die-hard. Granted most of the comments here are baked from a steaming cauldron of ignorance.

I acknowledge Africa's problems (and there ARE major problems) but I also believe there is lots of room for improvement. In fact I see Africa as the next growth region. It's rich in resources and has a great demogrpahic curve. As overpopulation sets in, Africa will be THE hotspot for resources. In the past decade, economic growth in Africa has surpassed that of Asia. It's no middle-ground my friend. I am long Africa.

As for IQ, I beg to differ. Its a deeply flawed measure of intelligence but its a somewhat viable measure nonetheless. Africa's average IQ is in fact closer to the Netherlands score in the 50s. The Flynn effect of increasing IQs (which has all but halted in the West) is likely in full swing in Africa. But like I said, IQ has little effect on economic growth. (In fact, the original report on African IQs by some academic hack in Philly had the avg at 70 which is border-line retarded. Obvious nonsense.)

Africa doesn't need handouts from the west, Africa is well able to sort themselves out.

Absolutely. In in fact see aid as a perverse incentive. Hand-outs are never the long-term answer to gaps in wealth/income.

Oh, and Africa is NOT fucked.

Yes it is. Its croynism that's holding this continent back. Have you tried to deal with governemnt officials in Nigeria WITHOUT paying a bribe?! Goddamn! Average age of Western leaders: 50. African leaders: +70. These guys (the Mugabes & Wades) are decades behind the curve. Until the power structure at the top changes, things will remain fucked. At least Malawi's president kicked the bucket. Here's hoping Mugabe's cancer kicks into the next gear. Gambia's Jammeh may be young but as an ex-military guy, we know how the story will end. Dos Santos is one of the few oldies that has goverened relatively well but his time is also up. etc

Let me add that all this talk of "Africa", as if its one homogenous country, is quite misguided. Some countries like Botswana are virtual emerging economies while others like Somalia are failed states. It's different across the board. Still, as a region the outlook is very positive.

4/19/12

edit: godamn double-post!

4/19/12

I agree with the OP. Everyone needs to let Africa fix itself. Stop letting these holier than thou liberals speak at the UN with respects to what needs to be done in Africa. I mean, it is painful to watch an Angelina Jolie give her 'educated opinion' on the matter.

'Are you are a pretty movie star, or do you make catchy 80's songs?! Awesome!! Why don't you tell us what needs to be done in Africa?'

Side note:

Wow- Strong racist underpinnings (Srs) ITT by a lot of monkeys (No racist). You make it appear as if Africa has not one metropolis. That everyone there walks around with plates in their lips and spears in hand. Look, every continent has its Aborigines, and Africa is no different. I just find it interesting that some people use that Africa vs. ancient Rome analogy- But, I think I can answer that question pretty easily.

"Sounds to me like you guys a couple of bookies."

4/19/12

Fair assessment. I still disagree with the use of the word "fucked", and I also see bribes flowing back and forth here in the US, cloaked and clothed with terms like "campaign donations" and fundraisers, so this isn't just an African thing, but yeah, I pretty much agree with most of what you said.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/19/12

Someone mentioned Japan and Asia and how they were basically nothing before the industrial revolution. You need to remember that before the IR Asia had already made huge cultural and scientific contributions to the world. Africa has literally never produced a single useful thing on its own so that is why so many of us have such little faith in it.

4/19/12
FusRoDah:

Someone mentioned Japan and Asia and how they were basically nothing before the industrial revolution. You need to remember that before the IR Asia had already made huge cultural and scientific contributions to the world. Africa has literally never produced a single useful thing on its own so that is why so many of us have such little faith in it.

This statement, on it's own is reasonable. It is true. My counter-argument to this statement is that prior to say, the roman invasion of western Europe, the same argument could have been made for western Europe. NOT Asia, Western Europe, you know - the area that currently leads civilization. Hell, even after the breakdown of the roman empire, most of Europe quickly receded from an organized empire into fragmentation and chaos. The baths stopped working, the roads were quickly overgrown, civilization receded considerably. This is not an African thing.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/19/12
Anomanderis:

This statement, on it's own is reasonable. It is true. My counter-argument to this statement is that prior to say, the roman invasion of western Europe, the same argument could have been made for western Europe. NOT Asia, Western Europe, you know - the area that currently leads civilization. Hell, even after the breakdown of the roman empire, most of Europe quickly receded from an organized empire into fragmentation and chaos. The baths stopped working, the roads were quickly overgrown, civilization receded considerably. This is not an African thing.

I think my point is this.

It's about closing the gap in far ranging demographic statistics that separate Africa versus the 2nd world. And the 2nd world versus 1st world.

That requires innovation. It's requires catching up to the current state of technology & infrastructure. It will then require innovating technologies in a competitive environment against the economies of Asia/Europe/North America. For example, who gives a shit if Africa has a Western 1950s style of life in 2030. By then the developed world will have synthetic organs, self driving electric cars, and large scale automation for many other daily tasks. It's about closing the technology gap - Japan did it. South Korea did it. I predict that China will do it.

4/20/12
FusRoDah:

Someone mentioned Japan and Asia and how they were basically nothing before the industrial revolution. You need to remember that before the IR Asia had already made huge cultural and scientific contributions to the world. Africa has literally never produced a single useful thing on its own so that is why so many of us have such little faith in it.

Semi-nude picture of Bale from American Psycho, WITH CAPTIONS -- AS WELL AS a Tupac Shakur QUOTE. DUDE YOU ARE A FUCKING WINNER!!!!

If you had any sense at all you would have googled whether Africa, as a large continent produced something useful. Indeed South Africa has -- http://www.southafrica.info/business/trends/innova...

4/20/12
DurbanDiMangus:
FusRoDah:

Someone mentioned Japan and Asia and how they were basically nothing before the industrial revolution. You need to remember that before the IR Asia had already made huge cultural and scientific contributions to the world. Africa has literally never produced a single useful thing on its own so that is why so many of us have such little faith in it.

Semi-nude picture of Bale from American Psycho, WITH CAPTIONS -- AS WELL AS a Tupac Shakur QUOTE. DUDE YOU ARE A FUCKING WINNER!!!!

I do my best.

If you had any sense at all you would have googled whether Africa, as a large continent produced something useful. Indeed South Africa has -- http://www.southafrica.info/business/trends/innova...

All white people. Thanks for proving my point.

4/19/12

Sure but then western Europe went through the dark ages and the enlightenment and subsequently the industrial revolution. Many other places have experienced similar phenomena but Africa has not. They have never had an industrial revolution, or a period of great (or any) scientific progress. There has never been a single native African philosopher, form of governance, scientific invention, or otherwise useful idea or invention in hundreds of thousands of years. Climate and opportunities for advancement is only an excuse for so long. If I'm wrong just tell me but so far I see no reason to have any faith that the tribal ways of life that are in their blood can change through any western-imposed social engineering.

The Korean people were enslaved and killed by the Chinese and Japanese many times throughout history. In the 50s they had the Korean war which split their country into two and created a bitter rivalry. 50 years later South Korea is one of the most advanced nations on the planet. So being mistreated by others in not an excuse. You may point to North Korea and how backwards they are and say it is all about government, which has a point, but North Koreans are still hardworking, industrious and intelligent despite their insane leadership.

4/20/12
FusRoDah:

Sure but then western Europe went through the dark ages and the enlightenment and subsequently the industrial revolution. Many other places have experienced similar phenomena but Africa has not. They have never had an industrial revolution, or a period of great (or any) scientific progress. There has never been a single native African philosopher, form of governance, scientific invention, or otherwise useful idea or invention in hundreds of thousands of years. Climate and opportunities for advancement is only an excuse for so long. If I'm wrong just tell me but so far I see no reason to have any faith that the tribal ways of life that are in their blood can change through any western-imposed social engineering.

The Korean people were enslaved and killed by the Chinese and Japanese many times throughout history. In the 50s they had the Korean war which split their country into two and created a bitter rivalry. 50 years later South Korea is one of the most advanced nations on the planet. So being mistreated by others in not an excuse. You may point to North Korea and how backwards they are and say it is all about government, which has a point, but North Koreans are still hardworking, industrious and intelligent despite their insane leadership.

But - why didn't western Europe go through it on their own? Why did it take the invasion of Rome and all that stuff to finally put them on the right track?

Here's the reality - outside the fertile crescent, no nation (with the exception of maybe china) has been able to evolve any reasonable quality of civilization. There are requirements to attain civilization - there must be a critical mass of humanity, there must be a preservable cash crop to support the said people regardless of the vagaries of weather change (wheat, rice), and there must be some level of variation of duties and functions.

I really am not bothered by colonization, I see it as a brilliant and quick way of pulling the backward African tribes into civilization. I have no doubt that without colonization, Africa would be much, much worse off today than it currently is. There is a price to pay for civilization, Europe paid it during the dark ages. Africa is paying it right now.

Now, we're all moderately quantitative here i believe - we can at least perform simple math, even if some of us may struggle with more advanced stuff. So let's do a timeline here if you will

Collapse of Roman influence in western Europe ~ 400AD
Dark Ages ~ 500 - 1500AD
Enlightenment et-al - 1500AD till today.

Collapse of Colonial empires ~ 60 years ago.
A bit early to pass judgment perhaps?

One more thing - there was NEVER any single native western European philosopher before the Roman empire. If I'm mistaken, kindly inform me. Neither was there "an industrial revolution, or a period of great (or any) scientific progress. There had never been a single western European philosopher, form of governance, scientific invention, or otherwise useful idea or invention in hundreds of thousands of years. Climate and opportunities for advancement is only an excuse for so long".

Regardless of intelligence or IQ, there needs to be a certain amount and quality of infrastructure around you before you're abilities can be nurtured and come to fruition. Environment matters. No matter how good, how marvelously gifted you quantitatively, without paper to write on, books to read, and a teacher to assist, you will not crack any theorems.

Civilization is a little innovation and a bucket load of borrowed ideas.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/19/12
4/20/12
Abdel:

Abdel, you need to stop. I could post pages and pages of literature here of people explaining why arabs fell from the world stage, but I find them racist and ignorant, so I won't.

But you need to stop. That man is a fool, regardless of his race or color, and I refuse to stoop to that level.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/20/12

Anomanderis:

Abdel, you need to stop.

One last bro

4/19/12

Note to self: no more posts about Africa.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

4/20/12
In The Flesh:

Note to self: no more posts about Africa.

I know. I for one was hoping we could have an intelligent discussion about the region's future instead of dwelling on the continent's past. Can't wait for WSO mods.

4/22/12
In The Flesh:

Note to self: no more posts about Africa.

I concur.

  • Ostende Mihi Pecuniam -
4/22/12
In The Flesh:

Note to self: no more posts about Africa.

yup, we cain't let the truth out

4/22/12
Abdel:
In The Flesh:

Note to self: no more posts about Africa.

yup, we cain't let the truth out

Well, it certainly brings out the truth - Ignorance is a bitch

Incidentally, I actually believe this was a good post. A lot of good debate has happened on here regardless of those who were unnecessarily aggressive (yes, I admit my own guilt here).

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/22/12
Anomanderis:
Abdel:
In The Flesh:

Note to self: no more posts about Africa.

yup, we cain't let the truth out

Well, it certainly brings out the truth - Ignorance is a bitch

Incidentally, I actually believe this was a good post. A lot of good debate has happened on here regardless of those who were unnecessarily aggressive (yes, I admit my own guilt here).

How was our posts ignorant? We were only stating facts, i.e. africans have contibuted zero to humanity.

When you compare to other races, at least they contributed something even if it's centuries ago.

There is a difference in mental horse power. If you accept the FACT that blacks are physically superior, then you'll have to accept that they're intellectually inferior (just look around).

Of course, this is on average.

Might sound harsh, but it is what it is. Just accept it bro, lol

4/20/12

Hey guys that should help you out a bit; check out the last question, it talks about Africa:
http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/04/20/acemoglu-an...

4/20/12

We need IlliniProgrammer in here to start advertising Lean Cuisine dinners to break up this crapshoot...

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

4/20/12
In The Flesh:

We need IlliniProgrammer in here to start advertising Lean Cuisine dinners to break up this crapshoot...

Indeed. I've been looking for those coupons

4/20/12

I can fix africa in one easy step.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

4/20/12
heister:

I can fix africa in one easy step.

nuke?

4/21/12

I just watched the "Guns, Germs, and Steel" documentary and his argument seems legit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

4/21/12
JDawg:

I just watched the "Guns, Germs, and Steel" documentary and his argument seems legit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

If the premise of GGS was true, then why would so many places that had abundances of resources, like Russia and parts of sub saharan Africa be so much less successful than places that were equally or less well endowed/difficult to cultivate, like Japan and the areas which were originally settled by US colonists?

"...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

  • Schopenhauer
4/21/12
seabird:
JDawg:

I just watched the "Guns, Germs, and Steel" documentary and his argument seems legit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

If the premise of GGS was true, then why would so many places that had abundances of resources, like Russia and parts of sub saharan Africa be so much less successful than places that were equally or less well endowed/difficult to cultivate, like Japan and the areas which were originally settled by US colonists?

Russia is 20 years old. Soviet Union was a superpower.

More is good, all is better

4/22/12
seabird:
JDawg:

I just watched the "Guns, Germs, and Steel" documentary and his argument seems legit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

If the premise of GGS was true, then why would so many places that had abundances of resources, like Russia and parts of sub saharan Africa be so much less successful than places that were equally or less well endowed/difficult to cultivate, like Japan and the areas which were originally settled by US colonists?

I can't speak for Russia b/c I don't know jack shit about their history. Japan was able to thrive because it borrowed things from China like culture, rice, and domesticated animals. Also keep in mind that Japan sucked until the Meiji Restoration period (1868-1912) at which point they realized how weak they were and subsequently embraced westernization and the outside world.

The documentary mentions that New Guinea has had agriculture for a long time, but its crops are inferior to those in other parts of the world like Eurasia and North Africa. Those regions had wheat and barley, which are easy to plant (throw seeds on the ground), nutritious, easy to store, and last a long time. New Guineans had Taro, which is harder to plant (have to plant it one by one), not as nutritious (specifically lacking protein), and don't last very long.

There's also the issue of domesticated animals. The only animal that New Guineans had was the pig (which was imported from Southeast Asia). Pigs can be used for meat, but they can't be used for plowing, transportation, or milk. None of the ancestors of large domesticated animals (over 100 lbs) came from Sub-Saharan Africa, New Guinea, or Australia. On the other hand, the Middle East had cows, goats, sheep, horses, etc. The Americas apparently only had the llama and that was only in South America.

Like someone else basically said: agriculture -> sedentary societies with an abundance of food -> specialization of craft -> advancement of technology and civilization.

I'm no historian and don't pretend to be educated on this topic, I'm just summarizing some of what the documentary said.

4/21/12

Sry, I was mad unclear, what I meant to say was Russia and the New England colonies at the time when the original colonies were being colonized.

"...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

  • Schopenhauer
4/22/12
seabird:

Sry, I was mad unclear, what I meant to say was Russia and the New England colonies at the time when the original colonies were being colonized.

I have NO idea what you are trying to say

More is good, all is better

4/22/12

well Japan had the advantage of proximity to China early in their history and the U.S. was abundant in resources to begin with, not to mention the colonists came to the U.S. with farming knowledge and technology. One has to pre-date the 1600s if one is to asses why/how Africa is behind, and GGS makes very valid points. A significant point are the barriers to the transference of knowledge, human thought works much better as a collective, because we can learn from others' mistakes. Places like the Americas that were undiscovered by China/Europe went centuries without having others' mistakes to build off of, same with the Polynesian islands, Sub-saharan Africa, and Australia. If Japan taught us anything it is that isolationism will quickly lead to one's civilization falling behind their peers technologically (HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN ASIANS ARE NATURALLY SMARTER BRO). Japan had only a 100 yrs or so of isolationism, these other continents literally went through centuries of it. Perhaps the most significant result of isolationism was the fact that farming techniques and written language (which is almost impossible to "invent") did not proliferate to these isolated regions. Without farming there is no stability, without stability there is no specialization, without specialization there are no Thomas Edisons or Washington Carvers. Without written language it is extremely difficult to build on knowledge acquired by previous generations leading to a "backward" civilization.

4/22/12

Proximity to China caused wars, not benefits (besides the fact that japan was isolationist for a long time and Chinas gdp didnt grow for a long time - in terms of modern japanese growth, they have not grown because of taking after the chinese model, though youre free to argue that if you want)

The US and Russia had comparable resources, though Id say America was probably more hostile and less connected to a lot of resources than Russia.

"...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

  • Schopenhauer
4/22/12
seabird:

Proximity to China caused wars, not benefits (besides the fact that japan was isolationist for a long time and Chinas gdp didnt grow for a long time - in terms of modern japanese growth, they have not grown because of taking after the chinese model, though youre free to argue that if you want)

The US and Russia had comparable resources, though Id say America was probably more hostile and less connected to a lot of resources than Russia.

I think it was a mixed bundle. Sure there were wars, there was also a nice pool of ideas that could easily be imported and implemented

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/22/12

Japan's benefits from its proximity to China were realized hundreds of years ago with the spread of farming, written language, and law. When I spoke earlier I was not referring to modern growth, the prior assessment regarding proliferation of knowledge has become largely null and void in a contemporary context due to globalization. Japan's recent growth is more a testament to unity and good economic principle than anything else. As for Russia, that region has been in constant political instability and that cripples economic development.

4/22/12

I agree with the guy who noted what the truly wealthy people are realizing about Africa. You guys can continue to diverge into a heated race discussion but I'm looking at value.

Where was India 20-30 years ago? Africa has cheap labor an overabundance of natural resources and plenty of capable individuals. You can keep touting this racial hierarchy nonsense but the rich will ride your ignorance right to the bank as they always have.

Anyone asking why Africans and other natives who had more natural resources but did not contribute to the sciences should ask the question of why human beings endeavor in engineering in the first place. If one is abundant in food sources and the climate is livable what would have motivated these peoples to follow such pursuits?

4/22/12

Abdel you're rhetoric and logic was a common belief system in the Nazi eugenics movement.

Why does it need to end with blacks being intellectually inferior though? We can also say that Arabic contributions were nowhere near what Europeans contributed. And Asians contributed significantly more than their Arab counterparts but still not at the level of Europeans.

4/22/12
jktecon:

Abdel you're rhetoric and logic was a common belief system in the Nazi eugenics movement.

Why does it need to end with blacks being intellectually inferior though? We can also say that Arabic contributions were nowhere near what Europeans contributed. And Asians contributed significantly more than their Arab counterparts but still not at the level of Europeans.

You are stating facts = you are correct.

This what life is about, a pyramid where ppl can move up & down (Nazis believed it was fixed). At present, europeans are at the top. Unless someone is dillusional, one cannot deny this.

Now, the point of this whole discussion is that, for centuries arabs were at the top of the pyramid, so were the chinese, and now europeans. However, Blacks remained at the bottom of the bottom.

Its not like I'm giving my opinion, I'm only stating facts.

4/22/12
Abdel:
jktecon:

Abdel you're rhetoric and logic was a common belief system in the Nazi eugenics movement.

Why does it need to end with blacks being intellectually inferior though? We can also say that Arabic contributions were nowhere near what Europeans contributed. And Asians contributed significantly more than their Arab counterparts but still not at the level of Europeans.

You are stating facts = you are correct.

This what life is about, a pyramid where ppl can move up & down (Nazis believed it was fixed). At present, europeans are at the top. Unless someone is dillusional, one cannot deny this.

Now, the point of this whole discussion is that, for centuries arabs were at the top of the pyramid, so were the chinese, and now europeans. However, Blacks remained at the bottom of the bottom.

Its not like I'm giving my opinion, I'm only stating facts.

Right, it is a fact that a continent with a failing union which relies on the economies of a few, and can not get its debt situation worked out is far superior to China, South Korea, Singapore, Brazil, or any of the other dozens of countries on the rise.

Sorry I'm being sarcastic; facts are not you're demented twists on realities.

And who exactly defines this grand Pyramid of important contributions to mankind? Only someone with your level of ignorance would attempt such a foolish endeavor because you have no grasp of history, philosophy or order. I stick to my previous assertion long Africa and short stupidity.

4/22/12

You can sit behind your computer and make fun on aborigines and loin-cloth wearing African people all you want, but if both of you were dropped in the middle of a jungle in the middle of nowhere, chances are that the dark-skinned guy would be much "smarter" than you when it comes to survival in that sort of environment. Intelligence is simply the result of years of hard work dedicated to developing a certain skillset, whether that be solving math problems or trying to survive in a jungle.

I won't be convinced that Africans are significantly mentally inferior until I see a study that shows that an African raised under the same circumstances and in the same environment as a Westerner performs worse than the Westerner. The fact that there are 100% black African people who've gone on to do intellectually difficult things like get physics PHDs at Stanford kind of hints that Africans are just as capable as their Western counterparts when given the same opportunities. I don't deny that there may be differences in mental ability due to genetics, just as there are differences in physical abilities due to genetics. I just think that people overestimate the impact of genes on mental performance because IMO intelligence is more the result of hard work than any innate genetic gift. Some people are more gifted at absorbing and synthesizing knowledge than others, but 1. the disadvantage of lacking these skills can be made irrelevant through working harder and putting more effort into learning (life isn't a fucking IQ test) 2. these learning skills can be developed.

To the cunthole who keeps throwing monkey shit at people simply because you disagree with their opinions: I hope you piss blood and die of AIDS

4/22/12

If I'm ignorant for stating historical facts, then you're either a dillusional person or a black person, which one is it?

4/22/12
Abdel:

If I'm ignorant for stating historical facts, then you're either a dillusional person or a black person, which one is it?

Brother you have not taken any course in history as is evident from your posts. If you have then you have been done a great injustice. Opinions are not facts rofl I don't like to be trolled.

4/22/12
jktecon:
Abdel:

If I'm ignorant for stating historical facts, then you're either a dillusional person or a black person, which one is it?

Brother you have not taken any course in history as is evident from your posts. If you have then you have been done a great injustice. Opinions are not facts rofl I don't like to be trolled.

This is basically the only thing I said: africans, up until now, have contribued zero to humanity compared to other races.

Now, please, explain to me how is my statement wrong.

4/22/12
Abdel:
jktecon:
Abdel:

If I'm ignorant for stating historical facts, then you're either a dillusional person or a black person, which one is it?

Brother you have not taken any course in history as is evident from your posts. If you have then you have been done a great injustice. Opinions are not facts rofl I don't like to be trolled.

This is basically the only thing I said: africans, up until now, have contribued zero to humanity compared to other races.

Now, please, explain to me how is my statement wrong.

The Egyptians were African were they not? And you may say their skin tone was not dark (simply based on the people you see inhabiting ancient Egypt today) but depictions of them in their murals were often of dark tone and in any case such advanced civilizations never made much mention of casting men by skin tone.

African trade was extremely beneficial for the European nations and the Africans had knowledge of plants and minerals that Europeans did take advantage of. If you want to talk about how incapable Africans are with maths I suggest you look up Iris Mack, Jonathan Farley or from the 19th century Benjamin Banneker.

The astronomer Neil Degrasse Tyson? Why are you vigilant on putting down an entire race all in one go?

4/22/12

Oh and Jdawg, it is clearly Abdel throwing the reckless monkey shits to anyone who disagrees with him. I got one as soon as he made his next post lol.

4/22/12
jktecon:

Oh and Jdawg, it is clearly Abdel throwing the reckless monkey shits to anyone who disagrees with him. I got one as soon as he made his next post lol.

not me mayne. Im not a hater.

4/22/12

So Illini, if you're reading this, is that two for one special on Lean Cuisine pot roast and mashed potatoes still available?

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

4/22/12

when I say africans = black ppl.

4/22/12
Abdel:

when I say africans = black ppl.

And again my ignorance level on this forum has been reached. Go read a book; I'm quite sure any book will contain a plethora of undiscovered knowledge that you can dwell on.

4/22/12

LOL @ trying to say Egyptians are Africans. Just L O L.

4/23/12
TNA:

LOL @ trying to say Egyptians are Africans. Just L O L.

I'm sorry - are they not?

I don't think they apply in this current discussion, but are you really saying Egyptians aren't African?

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/22/12

Egyptians are Africans ignoramus. Look up the Nubians who were the legit Sub saharan Empire that ruled over ancient Egypt. Are all people on this forum this uneducated? Or do I just read the touchy subjects that have people acting on their first human emotion.

My previous suggestion goes for you, read a book.

4/22/12

LOL

Keep the jokes coming hahaha.

4/22/12

I am not even a supporter of what is going on in this thread, I just think it is always funny how people go right to the Egyptians whenever an argument like this is brought about.

Africa is a mess for a lot of reasons. I would guess imperialism and vast mineral wealth is probably a big part of it. Whenever a nation relies on minerals to fund government it doesn't need to answer to citizens. See the ME for a perfect example of this.

Imperialism fucked the country also. See the Native Americans who were a functioning civilization until the more advanced Europeans subjugated them.

Regardless, Africa will most likely limp along with small areas of growth. You are not going to see manufacturing move from China to Africa. As China gets more expensive manufacturing will either come back to North America (USA and Mexica) or automate and stay in China. Africa doesn't have the stability, infrastructure or educated citizenship that China does.

4/22/12

Don't see why it would be funny, since it's historical knowledge; I guess you must have a riot when someone tells you about Marco Polo's journeys.

I won't join you in speculating where the next area of growth will be since I don't pretend to be a fortune teller. I will say that you are clearly uneducated about the continent as a whole, since you have referred to an entire land mass as though it is an amalgamated state.

I don't see how you could have the gall to speak of educated citizenship when you most likely couldn't name a University in Africa or China without scrolling through google. And you clearly are unaware of the systems in place in Africa. You've been watching that CNN haven't you.

Keep eating what you're fed, you may find that you and you're African American brothers had far more in common than you first thought.

4/22/12

Yeah, you are right buddy. Africa is going to replace China. Sureeeee.

Man, whenever people talk about Africa there are always a contingent of people who get butt hurt.

4/23/12
TNA:

Yeah, you are right buddy. Africa is going to replace China. Sureeeee.

Man, whenever people talk about Africa there are always a contingent of people who get butt hurt.

Of course, and when we talk about the insanity of right wing USA, you're never offended.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/22/12

I know how to fix Africa

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4/22/12

I'm not annoyed at all, there was just so much misinformation in here that serious flags needed to be raised.

Also never stated Africa would replace China.

I guess Goldman Sachs is also betting on African success since it was annoyed with all the African bankers being "butt hurt" over race issues. And if you are not aware, a large part of China's success is a result of its business in Africa.

Unlike you (i assume based on your ignorance you've not visited) I have visited countries on The Continent and can tell you that the Chinese have extensive deals and contracts with the governments in Africa. The Chinese have a near monopoly on several facets of the economies in many African countries. They(China) have taken advantage of your ignorance(and in fact your money, since foreign aid and unpaid loans are actually given to these African nations and the cash then used for purchase of Chinese products) to build their global dominance.

The cheap Chinese goods have taken over the African marketplace and I wonder if even Wal-Mart's plans of conducting business in Africa could end this stronghold for the Chinese economy. But yes I'm just a misinformed butt hurt gentleman looking to rage out, don't mind me.

4/22/12
jktecon:

I'm not annoyed at all, there was just so much misinformation in here that serious flags needed to be raised.

Also never stated Africa would replace China.

I guess Goldman Sachs is also betting on African success since it was annoyed with all the African bankers being "butt hurt" over race issues. And if you are not aware, a large part of China's success is a result of its business in Africa.

Unlike you (i assume based on your ignorance you've not visited) I have visited countries on The Continent and can tell you that the Chinese have extensive deals and contracts with the governments in Africa. The Chinese have a near monopoly on several facets of the economies in many African countries. They(China) have taken advantage of your ignorance(and in fact your money, since foreign aid and unpaid loans are actually given to these African nations and the cash then used for purchase of Chinese products) to build their global dominance.

The cheap Chinese goods have taken over the African marketplace and I wonder if even Wal-Mart's plans of conducting business in Africa could end this stronghold for the Chinese economy. But yes I'm just a misinformed butt hurt gentleman looking to rage out, don't mind me.

Wow, and how does this refute my original post or indicate a development of the economy?

China is involved with Africa because of oil and minerals. Why Africa? Because the US and Europe do not do business with a lot of the countries China does. Why? Because of human rights violations (see my original statement that countries with mineral wealth generally don't give a fuck about their people). So China turns a blind eye to these humanitarian issues and secures an energy source for its country without bumping into the USA.

This doesn't mean manufacturing is coming to Africa. Doesn't mean fundamental issues are being fixed, etc. Yes, money will come and certain countries will do better, but until you remove the corruption and human rights issues things will not get better.

I think Nigeria is a perfect example. Right in minerals and generally prosperous, they are facing all types of issues with Islamic rebels as well as environmental issues because of the oil industry.

Also, save your insults for someone else. Really just shows how upset you get for no reason. China is USING Africa just like the previous colonial powers have. China doesn't give a shit about Africa. China is there to suck the oil out of the ground and will support any dictator that facilitates this.

"he quest for key resources in Africa targets areas rich in oil, minerals, timber, and cotton, such as Sudan, Angola, Nigeria, and South Africa. Many African countries are viewed as fast-growing markets and profitable outlets for the immediate export of cheap manufactured goods, and the future export of high-end products and services."

"Scholars have argued that the PRC's supporting dictatorships in Africa is counter-productive both for long-term Chinese policy towards Africa, and to the African people. The PRC's involvement currently benefits primarily the elites, an opportunistic practice for which it has been criticized by humanitarians and others."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-African_relations

Also, no where did I ever say Africa as a whole was not going to advance or improve. I simply asserted that in the future, much like in the past, Africa will be used by various forces and continue to limp along.

But yeah, call me ignorant and other names as if you are a PhD on the subject or something.

4/22/12
jktecon:

I'm not annoyed at all, there was just so much misinformation in here that serious flags needed to be raised.

Also never stated Africa would replace China.

I guess Goldman Sachs is also betting on African success since it was annoyed with all the African bankers being "butt hurt" over race issues. And if you are not aware, a large part of China's success is a result of its business in Africa.

Unlike you (i assume based on your ignorance you've not visited) I have visited countries on The Continent and can tell you that the Chinese have extensive deals and contracts with the governments in Africa. The Chinese have a near monopoly on several facets of the economies in many African countries. They(China) have taken advantage of your ignorance(and in fact your money, since foreign aid and unpaid loans are actually given to these African nations and the cash then used for purchase of Chinese products) to build their global dominance.

The cheap Chinese goods have taken over the African marketplace and I wonder if even Wal-Mart's plans of conducting business in Africa could end this stronghold for the Chinese economy. But yes I'm just a misinformed butt hurt gentleman looking to rage out, don't mind me.

Wow, and how does this refute my original post or indicate a development of the economy?

China is involved with Africa because of oil and minerals. Why Africa? Because the US and Europe do not do business with a lot of the countries China does. Why? Because of human rights violations (see my original statement that countries with mineral wealth generally don't give a fuck about their people). So China turns a blind eye to these humanitarian issues and secures an energy source for its country without bumping into the USA.

This doesn't mean manufacturing is coming to Africa. Doesn't mean fundamental issues are being fixed, etc. Yes, money will come and certain countries will do better, but until you remove the corruption and human rights issues things will not get better.

I think Nigeria is a perfect example. Right in minerals and generally prosperous, they are facing all types of issues with Islamic rebels as well as environmental issues because of the oil industry.

Also, save your insults for someone else. Really just shows how upset you get for no reason. China is USING Africa just like the previous colonial powers have. China doesn't give a shit about Africa. China is there to suck the oil out of the ground and will support any dictator that facilitates this.

"he quest for key resources in Africa targets areas rich in oil, minerals, timber, and cotton, such as Sudan, Angola, Nigeria, and South Africa. Many African countries are viewed as fast-growing markets and profitable outlets for the immediate export of cheap manufactured goods, and the future export of high-end products and services."

"Scholars have argued that the PRC's supporting dictatorships in Africa is counter-productive both for long-term Chinese policy towards Africa, and to the African people. The PRC's involvement currently benefits primarily the elites, an opportunistic practice for which it has been criticized by humanitarians and others."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-African_relations

Also, no where did I ever say Africa as a whole was not going to advance or improve. I simply asserted that in the future, much like in the past, Africa will be used by various forces and continue to limp along.

But yeah, call me ignorant and other names as if you are a PhD on the subject or something.

4/23/12

Are you a fortune teller? I certainly can not ascertain what the chinese-African framework may have in store.

I'm just putting down all the pitiful notions that people fall back to when Africa is referred to. Do i necessarily care whether African economies overpower the other nations in the world, no not particularly. I also do not necessarily care if the American economy does well.

In our current framework it is so laughable how sheep can be manipulated by racial or national allegiance, not much different than a fan loyal to his local sports team. Hey you can keep supporting if you want to but I'm on team winning. Never could support a losing side and don't see why I should start. If something is positive I'm finding it, period.

4/23/12

We're not saying Africa won't develop. What we're saying is, the development won't come from black ppl. It will be either whites, asians, arabs or indians who will invest there and make shit happen.

4/23/12

What I'm saying is why is your focus on who does the development? And what if the development indeed comes from native Africans, will you not invest?

This all reminds me of the life of a man who in my mind was the greatest mathematician of all time;Ramanujan. Self studied and trained his work was mailed to the University of Cambridge where only one man stood for him but all others thought it impossible that a native Indian produce meaningful work in the field. Hardy is now mentioned next to Ramanujan simply for discovering greatness.

These men were trained in maths and yet were foolish enough to let preconceived fallacies dictate their views. I don't give a damn where the guy is from, who invests and who makes it happen. The point is if you let that be an overarching philosophy in your life you will be doomed from recognizing your own potential reward which in the end is your decision. Again I choose winning.

4/23/12

Jktecon, why bother? Enlightenment can't be taught. I could name hundreds - nay, thousands of Africans who have PhDs and stuff from top US and European unis, but this won't change opinions. Havard School of medicine has Nigerians as the second highest number of foreign students (after the UK) but of course this doesn't matter. Abdel dearly needs to constantly talk down black people to make himself feel good and Ant? Now he makes me laugh. Ant should stay with right wing US politics, his knowledge of Africa is next to zero.

I have said previously and will say again - economic process is a combination of "borrowing" from existing ideas and innovating new ones. It's not creating an entire infrastructure from the start. Countries like Botswana, Swziland and Ghana have grown tremendously over the last say 20 years. Nigeria has a massive educated class. The infrastructure exists dude. Arabia and the UK are crammed with Nigerian Doctors.

This argument is structured like you have Africa as one underdeveloped area, while the rest of the world is totally developed. This simply isn't true. There are large cities in Africa better developed than many Asian towns. The gap between say, India or China and Nigeria is much lower than the gap between USA and India/China.

What is this infrastructure Ant refers to anyway?

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely.

And Rhaegar died.

4/23/12

Geez guys, by now we could have just fixed Africa.

- Capt K -
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham

4/23/12

LOL at all the revisionist fucktards trying to paint the Egyptians as black. Like out of the entire worthless landmass that is sub-Saharan Africa there comes this miraculously englightened race thousands of years ahead of their neighbors. Sure. From fucking Africa. They were Greek and Middle Eastern.

Also laughing at everyone who says "take a history course" or "listen to your professor," like that's an unbiased source of historical information, at a modern liberal American university.

All Africa is good for now and has ever been good for historically is its resources, both human and material. If you think the crafty Chinese aren't doing everything they can to take advantage of the simple minded African then you're delusional. These are the same Chinese that will leave one of their own dying in the street after getting hit by a car with hundreds/thousands of people walking right past them, do you think they really give a shit about African economic development?

Also jktecon, why should he know any African universities when they're all shit, as scrolling through any list of the world's best universities will tell you. He really should be sorry he didn't take that course at the university of sudan on how to make dung cakes and spot witches so you can burn them.

No one has answered my question about African contributions to society because they can't. Here's the uncomfortable truth: Africa sucks major dick, always has and always will. Africa itself, without the influence of any other civilization, has, over millions of years of human history, never contributed a single thing to the rest of the world. Not a single piece of technology,not a single political or social framework, not a single philosopher or scientist or mathematician or writer or artist or astronomer or anything else of even the slightest value. Despite being on arguably the most naturally wealthy continent on Earth, Africa was never a global powerhouse. Not once were Africans ambitious enough to try to explore and conquer another land. Not once did they look under their feet and mine the stone from the ground and create buildings. They barely even figured out how to distill alcohol which pretty much every other race/civilization figured out. They couldn't create a decent written language, didn't have any unifying political or religious system at all.

Africans are genetically stupider than everyone else. Deal with it. It's really not that hard if you understand evolution at a first-grader level.

4/23/12
FusRoDah:

LOL at all the revisionist fucktards trying to paint the Egyptians as black. Like out of the entire worthless landmass that is sub-Saharan Africa there comes this miraculously englightened race thousands of years ahead of their neighbors. Sure. From fucking Africa. They were Greek and Middle Eastern.

Also laughing at everyone who says "take a history course" or "listen to your professor," like that's an unbiased source of historical information, at a modern liberal American university.

All Africa is good for now and has ever been good for historically is its resources, both human and material. If you think the crafty Chinese aren't doing everything they can to take advantage of the simple minded African then you're delusional. These are the same Chinese that will leave one of their own dying in the street after getting hit by a car with hundreds/thousands of people walking right past them, do you think they really give a shit about African economic development?

Also jktecon, why should he know any African universities when they're all shit, as scrolling through any list of the world's best universities will tell you. He really should be sorry he didn't take that course at the university of sudan on how to make dung cakes and spot witches so you can burn them.

No one has answered my question about African contributions to society because they can't. Here's the uncomfortable truth: Africa sucks major dick, always has and always will. Africa itself, without the influence of any other civilization, has, over millions of years of human history, never contributed a single thing to the rest of the world. Not a single piece of technology,not a single political or social framework, not a single philosopher or scientist or mathematician or writer or artist or astronomer or anything else of even the slightest value. Despite being on arguably the most naturally wealthy continent on Earth, Africa was never a global powerhouse. Not once were Africans ambitious enough to try to explore and conquer another land. Not once did they look under their feet and mine the stone from the ground and create buildings. They barely even figured out how to distill alcohol which pretty much every other race/civilization figured out. They couldn't create a decent written language, didn't have any unifying political or religious system at all.

Africans are genetically stupider than everyone else. Deal with it. It's really not that hard if you understand evolution at a first-grader level.

First of all I question the logic process of anyone who insults the African continent but then has a Tupac quote as his tag. In any case no one has addressed your issue because you sir are ignorant. If the answer came, punched you in the face and stole your money you still would not believe.

Well I will take the role of that answer but in a far kinder fashion. I won't revert to violence, I will however let your ignorance prey on you while I take your money.

4/23/12

I like one line of a rap song, that has absolutely nothing to do with African civilization(s). Go ahead, punch me in the face with your answer.

4/23/12

Obviously people in this forum do not know anything about history. The Romans did not contribute anything to society other than diseases and murder. How so, let me explain

  1. Roman writing system was borrowed by the Ethiopians, North Sudan (South Egypt at that time) and the Middle East. Homer, a Greek man, said it himself
  2. Romans did not invent the sewer system. It was the Black-a-Moors, Northern Africans and other Muslims. This happened during the Dark Ages when Europe was poor dumb and stupid. During the Dark Ages many countries including empires in Africa were living liverish. (I.e. Mali, Songhai, Benin, Axum, etc...)
  3. The First World University was in Africa: The University of Timbuktu
  4. Iron smelting was discovered in West Africa, not Asia nor Europe.
  5. The Romans were taught by outsiders: Nubian (South Ancient Egypt), Kush and many other regions in Africa. Many of the Romans gave credit to Africans when it came to science and mathematics.
  6. Let's not forget that Rome was not just a white place, it was home to many ethnicities. There were many Blacks living there, as nobles, Caesars and generals. I have proof of this.
  7. Like mathematics, like me, say, you can't do real math with roman numerals. The first math device was found in Kenya. This device was said to be 2 million years old.
  8. I can go on and on but it useless. All I can say is if it wasn't for Africans, white would not be where they are now....back when the white man was in the caves in Europe, eating dog and shyt, Africans were living like kings and queens.
4/23/12

If thats true then why did all of that technology die out? It wasn't like the Europeans came upon any super advanced civilizations when they colonized Africa. Do you have sources for any of that?

And nice troll account.

4/23/12

I am locking this thread. There is no discussion of Africa on an economic basis. This is simply which race is better. Africa has problems and potential. For humanities sake and theirs I hope they overcome.

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