The Cost of Being Driven

Hey all,

I read a short article which made me think about what my priorities should be while I’m in college. After a lackluster performance last semester, I decided to really buckle up and stay focused in school this semester. While it is still early on, I can already sense some changes that are set in motion in my lifestyle due to this new mindset. I don’t go out as much, don’t kill time just chilling with friends, and don’t look for girls trying to get laid. But what is more than the lowered frequency of such activities is my attitude towards them. I see my friends who are wasting time doing things that wouldn’t add a dime to their future and think “that’s stupid.”

I used to enjoy just screwing around with friends and going out 3-4 nights a week. And those are what I remember from past semesters, not that time I got a 100 on a midterm. Moreover, I see others’ attitudes change toward me. Not to say that people suddenly dislike me, as the article suggests, but they certainly don’t hit me up for nights out during the weekdays, knowing that I would stay in, and contact with women has significantly declined. Of course, my closest friends treat me just the same, but it sucks that I don’t have much time for them. Now, I know these things sound petty to many of you, but this change has triggered some reflection in me because I used to think kids who act like their jobs after college are ALL that matters from day one are really boring and annoying. Those same kids who fill up their after-class hours with business club activities, converse only on topics that relate to classes or future careers, and don’t have much of a real social life. Well, I feel like I’m about to be that person. Is this a bad thing?

Now, I know some of you are going to say, “you can do both!” I used to believe that too. But it’s not even a matter of personality, but a matter of time constraint. My usual schedule now goes like this:

  • 9:00am-4:00pm - Classes, HW in between
  • 4:00pm-6:00pm - EC Activities
  • 6:00pm-7:00pm - Dinner
  • 7:00pm-1:00am - More EC, networking, HW, reading financial news

Sometimes I’ll throw in some gym time to give myself a healthy balance. But that’s pretty much it. No time for friends, parties, or chasing tails. I can see this schedule only getting tighter if I do end up getting that dream job. But when does this stop? Should my 20’s be spent going all-out on career advancement? I know I could compromise on both sides and do OK at school and have a balanced social life, but I wouldn’t be happy with the kind of job that effort will get me.

For those of you who maintain a flourishing social life all the while building a rock-solid resume, how do you do it? Is sacrifice necessary to get that top job? If so, are Wall Street and consulting jobs the worthy top professions that deserve my sacrifices?

 
Best Response

I would say they are probably not. Here is a little of my own experience.

After graduating college, I took a job in investment banking working in M&A. I worked on average 80 hours a week (obviously including weekends) and would spend nearly all of the time that I was awake working, at the office. The one or two nights a week that I actually managed to leave the office (usually around 7 on fridays nights, and saturday nights where usually free too) I struggled to fill my social calendar because everyone I knew had forgotten about me.

After about 4-5 years of that. I quit. I moved to a new city, and began rebuilding my social life. Life has never been better.

In retrospect, I think it took actually doing banking, and seeing what it was all about, and that I just didn't feel like I could do it any more, was the only path that could have lead me to where I am now, mentally. In other words, if i never did banking, maybe I though have regretted not doing it.

You are young, no matter what you do you have plenty of time to correct your mistakes. Just go with what feels right and try not to worry about it too much.

-F

 

Disagree with the sentiment. I've thought about this a lot and here is my opinion.

Finance is guaranteed money so there is more competition for the jobs and so to get ahead, more sacrifices need to be made. However, these sacrifices are made in many cases by borderline candidates who aren't talented in a field actually valued by society (entrepreneur, engineer, etc). I don't think the computer science phenom at Harvard doing what he loves and succeeding is going to have trouble hedging his future with a job in IB. Same with the mechanical engineer, the physicist, the economics whiz, etc but unfortunately many of us don't develop legitimate "passions" with genuine demonstrated interests until college, our 20s and our 30s. Banking takes hard work and grit more than some great talent that could be better spent in a startup or niche consulting role and it's a safe bet to a great lifestyle which is a magnet to your average college student doing well academically, but enjoying life with the parties and frats and all of that as opposed to working towards a noble prize.

Banking gets you the money, which helps pay off student debt which is so high in our country today. It is definitely a reasonable choice and worth it for many, but it is definitely possible to be much much wealthier than a banker with much less pain and struggle if you're willing to immerse yourself in a field for years, take a little bit more risk in order to be the creator of value as opposed to the deal maker who hooks up the value creators with capital.

 

I did the same lifestyle last year, and never regret it. I still allowed some free times to hang out with my closest buddies though, and dating with random girls every weekends, each with different girls, simply because I couldn't build any long term relationship with them.

And that lifestyle continues after I got my current job two months after graduated from MSF. Personally I think hanging out with people thats not your best buddies is a waste of time, so this kind of lifestyle suits me best.

 

If you are in university; there is no way that you have 9am - 4pm of classes every day. That would be approx. (assuming 1hr=1cr) 35 credits/ semester.

You just need some time mgmt. I'm almost always in the same boat. I work a part time job (6am - 10am) and then have classes most days during the day. Have chem this semester for a gen ed credit and Tuesdays are brutal (9.20-10.35 class;;; then 1.30-4.30lab).

Also, what ECs do you do for 2 hours every day?

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
 
streetwannabe:
If you are in university; there is no way that you have 9am - 4pm of classes every day. That would be approx. (assuming 1hr=1cr) 35 credits/ semester.

You just need some time mgmt. I'm almost always in the same boat. I work a part time job (6am - 10am) and then have classes most days during the day. Have chem this semester for a gen ed credit and Tuesdays are brutal (9.20-10.35 class;;; then 1.30-4.30lab).

Also, what ECs do you do for 2 hours every day?

1 credit does not equal 1 class hour, at least not at my college. I'm not saying that whole time is packed with classes, and that's why indicated doing HW is included in those hours, and other miscellaneous stuff with which I have to catch up. When I say EC here, not necessarily school club activities; fraternity duties that are unrelated to entertainment, internships, start-up idea on the side, job search etc. Believe me when I say I work efficiently. I used to be the kid in HS that pulled A's with no effort. That got me B+'s at max in college, hence the need to put in the time.

Ugh the FBI still quotes the Dow... -Matt Levine
 

This is pretty ridiculous... You're young, enjoy life! You can still work hard, play hard. Pull chicks. Drink. Its college man. Doing ECs just to get ahead - just dumb - not many interviewers care at the end of the day Focus on cultivating good/meaningful relationships in college, youll be surprised by the number of great people around you everyday...and you never know how helpful people can be down the road. People Need People.

 
ixjunitxi:
This is pretty ridiculous... You're young, enjoy life! You can still work hard, play hard. Pull chicks. Drink. Its college man. Doing ECs just to get ahead - just dumb - not many interviewers care at the end of the day Focus on cultivating good/meaningful relationships in college, youll be surprised by the number of great people around you everyday...and you never know how helpful people can be down the road. People Need People.

Not saying I live like a hermit with no human interaction. I go out once a week, sometimes twice. Just saying I wish I could just be more carefree sometimes without risking top job prospects. I guess the guy above who mentioned "developing a true passion" is key; if you genuinely love what you're doing, it won't matter how much hours you put in it. It's just that not everyone discovers that or have matching talent for the passion even when you do.

Ugh the FBI still quotes the Dow... -Matt Levine
 
rufiolove:
College: You're doing it wrong... If I were you, I would just get a 3.8 and party... that's pretty much what I did. Exactly.

Basically this. 9am to 4pm is plenty to get all your academic work done. Your EC commitment might be reasonable if it is a varsity sport.

But 7pm to 1am of networking / finance prep? What? That is 6 hours a day. You'll have emailed every name in your college's alumni database after a few weeks of that. And there is no rational reason to spend that much time prepping for interviews. Really, the WSO/M&I guides are more than sufficient.

 
rufiolove:
College: You're doing it wrong... If I were you, I would just get a 3.8 and party... that's pretty much what I did. Exactly.

How much harder is it to get a 3.9 vs a 3.8 assuming 17-19 credits? How about 3.8 as opposed to 4.0? I have a near 4 GPA and getting a 3.8 seems much easier as you can get a B per semester and would take a lot of pressure off of me. I just don't know whether it's worth it settling for a 3.7/3.8 at a non target with all of the competition out there so I grind it out and work way more than I should in order to pull the 4.0.

 
Husky32:
rufiolove:
College: You're doing it wrong... If I were you, I would just get a 3.8 and party... that's pretty much what I did. Exactly.

How much harder is it to get a 3.9 vs a 3.8 assuming 17-19 credits? How about 3.8 as opposed to 4.0? I have a near 4 GPA and getting a 3.8 seems much easier as you can get a B per semester and would take a lot of pressure off of me. I just don't know whether it's worth it settling for a 3.7/3.8 at a non target with all of the competition out there so I grind it out and work way more than I should in order to pull the 4.0.

No one cares that you have a 4.0 vs. a 3.8/3.9 and in fact it probably signals red flags. They are going to ask you about your interests, many groups will want to know that you can party and have a good time and if you're signalling to them that you can't (i.e. "I spend from 8am till 1am every day trying to be a wannabe banker to simulate the stress of the job") they will be turned off.

There is no need to be spending the time you are spending doing what you are doing because I can PROMISE you that unless you are in a crazy difficult major like a STEM major, particularly a hard science (engineering/physics/chem/computer science etc.) or an athlete, you are spending too much time on activities with severely diminishing returns. The ROI on your time right now is TERRIBLE. If were looking at it as a potential investor I would be running out to borrow as much money as I could to short the ever loving shit out of it.

You get ONE shot at college... ONE. Unless you are like Brady and believe that B school is the cure for trading 4 years of happiness for 4 years of misery. You CAN still get a job on the street AND enjoy college and party with your friends. The fact that you feel you are becoming distanced from your friends and that they feel despondent towards you and that there is an alienating effect is the direct result of your approach and attitude.

I would take a 3.7/3.8 who has an interesting LIFE and a PASSION but not awkward OBSESSION for banking and the markets, over a kid who is overcompensating all day. If you want a tip on how to help you break in given your situation, go out and be interesting and don't put your life on hold for the mere chance of a job. You will REGRET it later.

 

I agree with what's been said so far. I did pretty well for myself with a double major and I think treating it like a job, a normal one at least (i.e. 9-5, M-F) will get you there. I mean think about it. That's 8 hours a day, most college students have 3 hrs of class a day (assuming evenly distributed throughout the week and 5 classes) which leaves 5 hours. Even if you take lunch and some other dicking around out of there, you'll still have over 3 hours. That easily leaves you nights and weekends free to get drunk and strike out.

PS- Had one friend who LIVED in the library. Damn kid did like 10 minutes of work out of each hour, spent the other 50 on FB, bullshitting, etc. He just loved the image of being "that guy who was always working", but anyone who wasn't an idiot knew the deal. Point- don't get caught up in the b.s. at the lib. If you treat it like "I'm here to work", there's no reason to not have ample down time.

 

marginal effort of 3.7 to 4.0 >>>>>>>>> marginal benefit of 3.7 to 4.0

Just my opinion, but I think shortly after graduation everything will come into perspective regarding this. You will see tons of people who didn't open a book, doing well for themselves. And you will see tons of people who went all out, doing poorly. Life's a cunt.

This is obviously just my opinion. Seems like everytime this is brought up, some 3.9 swoops in swearing he's doing well because of it when in reality it was some externality that would have happened either way (such as a contact that would have helped them regardless). Work smart, not hard.

 

Voluptas nihil ut commodi ratione facilis exercitationem. Suscipit vel veritatis voluptatem animi commodi. Ducimus porro velit aspernatur dolorem voluptas.

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