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Will you ever get rich?

It used to be an easy question to answer if you were headed to Wall Street.

Not so much today...

Yet another look at America's growing wealth gap doesn't instill confidence.

In fact, if you stop to actually read the article you may wind up looking in the mirror and asking yourself some difficult questions with regards to your goals, aspirations and ambitions.

Proceed... with caution.

Very disturbingly the poorest 90 % of Americans make an average of $31,244 a year. While the richest 1% make a hardly inspiring $1.1 million plus.

Two Very Disturbing Extrapolations

1) $31,244 is a very humble amount of money. It is a very humble amount of money if you are a single person in their 20's living in a studio apartment in a not-so-terrific urban neighborhood. Taking into account this must read Zero Hedge article, (assist to VTech Forever on that one) we can safely say that the majority of today's middle class...really is poor. For an average of ~$30K to apply to 90% of the population (i.e. ~270,000,000 people) there has to be an anchor of dead weight pulling down the honest hardworking sub-six figure crowd subsidizing them.

But who cares...we are the elite,right?

Let us examine...

2) $1.1 million dollars is a nice chunk of change. Let's be clear. A mil definitely does not buy you what it once did. But it's still a nice number...

However...

If the top %1 of Americans (i.e. 3,000,000) make a mil...how discrepant is that figure, really?

Considering how many F50-1000 bosses make a lot more, considering the billionaires and media megastars involved...how many people are actually making that much?

Isn't it highly likely that the "typical Wall Street stiff making $400K/year" is the caboose pulling down this party wagon?

Isn't it actually becoming a reality that in the top 1%, the monkeys and the chimps are the anchor babies making the disgusting discrepancy seem more paletteable in this sort of analysis?

Tell me, monkeys...

What do these figures tell you?

Then think about it and answer honestly...

Will you ever really be rich or will you be paying someone else's free lunch so the real %1 do not have to?

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Comments (353)

  • TNA's picture

    Do as I say, not as I do.

    Glad we could finally get the truth to come out.

    Bravo gents.

  • freroht's picture

    I only think it is a risk factor. I really would not mind having a society where the 1% elite possess 99% of the resources. The only that situation like that creates is chaos, uproar and socialism.

    There is a reason why communism was formed; the disparity of wealth was the biggest reason for that.

    I think if you want to have a free and capitalistic society, we will need to find a way to have more people succeed.

  • In reply to freroht
    monkeysama's picture

    freroht:
    I only think it is a risk factor. I really would not mind having a society where the 1% elite possess 99% of the resources. The only that situation like that creates is chaos, uproar and socialism.

    There is a reason why communism was formed; the disparity of wealth was the biggest reason for that.

    I think if you want to have a free and capitalistic society, we will need to find a way to have more people succeed.

    Inequitable societies naturally lead to less free societies.

  • In reply to monkeysama
    rebelcross's picture

    monkeysama:
    Inequitable societies naturally lead to less free societies.

    And you are a perfect example of why that happens. You are taking what is not a perfectly equal society and trying to impart your methods of coercion and limited financial freedom upon certain members of it. Perhaps that's where the real problem lies.

  • In reply to monkeysama
    econ's picture

    monkeysama:
    I never assumed people couldn't have more than 30k. It is in their best interest to make income distribution flatter - they would make more money and the opportunity you are talking about is illusory. Lastly, people vote against their economic wellbeing all the time I never denied that.

    Sorry for misunderstanding your view point on your first and last sentence. The second one though, I disagree with. It's not clearly in their interest for a flatter distribution for a variety of reasons (some economic, some personal).

  • In reply to monkeysama
    econ's picture

    monkeysama:
    What I said was that a vote for a Republican is typically a vote against ones' own economic self interest.

    Not true... (and I say this as someone who refuses to vote)

    How do you figure?

  • In reply to monkeysama
    UFOinsider's picture

    monkeysama:
    freroht:
    I only think it is a risk factor. I really would not mind having a society where the 1% elite possess 99% of the resources. The only that situation like that creates is chaos, uproar and socialism.

    There is a reason why communism was formed; the disparity of wealth was the biggest reason for that.

    I think if you want to have a free and capitalistic society, we will need to find a way to have more people succeed.

    Inequitable societies naturally lead to less free societies.


    Dude, seriously, I understand your frustration, but you need to be pestering people for an 'in' to help you get working. Hacking 2nd rate leftist posits here is going to get you nowhere, unless you're trying to become a democrat.

    I say this with all due respect, and mean no disrespect to actual leftist democrats

    Get busy living

  • TNA's picture

    The USA succeeds because we provide opportunity. Socialism grows when people have no chance. As long as immigrants come to this country and improve their lot, the USA will be fine.

  • In reply to UFOinsider
    monkeysama's picture

    UFOinsider:
    monkeysama:
    freroht:
    I only think it is a risk factor. I really would not mind having a society where the 1% elite possess 99% of the resources. The only that situation like that creates is chaos, uproar and socialism.

    There is a reason why communism was formed; the disparity of wealth was the biggest reason for that.

    I think if you want to have a free and capitalistic society, we will need to find a way to have more people succeed.

    Inequitable societies naturally lead to less free societies.


    Dude, seriously, I understand your frustration, but you need to be pestering people for an 'in' to help you get working. Hacking 2nd rate leftist posits here is going to get you nowhere, unless you're trying to become a democrat.

    I say this with all due respect, and mean no disrespect to actual leftist democrats

    Why? They're equally pointless, but at least right now I'm being entertained. I really don't ever see myself being able to restart anything resembling a career again.

  • txjustin's picture

    So you're just gonna wallow in your pity?

  • In reply to monkeysama
    UFOinsider's picture

    monkeysama:
    UFOinsider:
    monkeysama:
    freroht:
    I only think it is a risk factor. I really would not mind having a society where the 1% elite possess 99% of the resources. The only that situation like that creates is chaos, uproar and socialism.

    There is a reason why communism was formed; the disparity of wealth was the biggest reason for that.

    I think if you want to have a free and capitalistic society, we will need to find a way to have more people succeed.

    Inequitable societies naturally lead to less free societies.


    Dude, seriously, I understand your frustration, but you need to be pestering people for an 'in' to help you get working. Hacking 2nd rate leftist posits here is going to get you nowhere, unless you're trying to become a democrat.

    I say this with all due respect, and mean no disrespect to actual leftist democrats

    Why? They're equally pointless, but at least right now I'm being entertained. I really don't ever see myself being able to restart anything resembling a career again.


    I can't motivate you. I can only let you know what's in YOUR best interest.

    Get busy living

  • IlliniProgrammer's picture

    Do any family members own farmland? Why not start up an organic farm? Probably a good time to do that given food prices- in ten years- after the dollar crash, you'll probably have a bunch of former bankers like us to help you plant and take care of the livestock.

  • In reply to txjustin
    rebelcross's picture

    txjustin:
    So you're just gonna wallow in your pity?

    Leads to a severe case of chronic leftism.

  • In reply to rebelcross
    monkeysama's picture

    rebelcross:
    txjustin:
    So you're just gonna wallow in your pity?

    Leads to a severe case of chronic leftism.

    I'm not wallowing in pity. I'm simply being realistic. I've run out of options as far as anything like a career is concerned - maybe I can become a janitor or a bar tender. Who knows? But for right now I don't really have any idea.

  • In reply to monkeysama
    econ's picture

    monkeysama:
    I really don't ever see myself being able to restart anything resembling a career again.

    Dude, you're going to be fine. One's career is a marathon, not a sprint. I can empathize with you, as I've been unemployed for 5 months (and am honestly not sure when I'll receive an offer). You're a smart guy with a technical background, things will work out for you. Look man, transitions are always tough. Don't mistake a tough transition for hopelessness, you have a lot more going for you than many, many people. Less than a month ago, I met a lady who is Senior Vice President at a successful, fast-growing startup. This lady used to teach K-12 art (for several years, mind you) and quit. She then took an extremely low-level career at a startup, and became VP there after 10 years. Once they were bought out, she found a new job at a new startup, which is where she's at now (as a SVP). No offense, but I suspect you have it nowhere as difficult as she did (especially when you consider she had a family when she quit her teaching job). I understand you're down on yourself right now, but I urge you to start thinking about it rationally. Plenty of people with worse backgrounds than you have succeeded at a fairly high-level.

  • In reply to econ
    monkeysama's picture

    econ:
    monkeysama:
    Why? They're equally pointless, but at least right now I'm being entertained. I really don't ever see myself being able to restart anything resembling a career again.

    Dude, you're going to be fine. One's career is a marathon, not a sprint. I can empathize with you, as I've been unemployed for 5 months (and am honestly not sure when I'll receive an offer). You're a smart guy with a technical background, things will work out for you. Look man, transitions are always tough. Don't mistake a tough transition for hopelessness, you have a lot more going for you than many, many people. Less than a month ago, I met a lady who is Senior Vice President at a successful, fast-growing startup. This lady used to teach K-12 art (for several years, mind you) and quit. She then took an extremely low-level career at a startup, and became VP there after 10 years. Once they were bought out, she found a new job at a new startup, which is where she's at now (as a SVP). No offense, but I suspect you have it nowhere as difficult as she did (especially when you consider she had a family when she quit her teaching job). I understand you're down on yourself right now, but I urge you to start thinking about it rationally. Plenty of people with worse backgrounds than you have succeeded at a fairly high-level.

    We'll see. Thanks for the encouragement though.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    monkeysama's picture

    IlliniProgrammer:
    Do any family members own farmland? Why not start up an organic farm? Probably a good time to do that given food prices- in ten years- after the dollar crash, you'll probably have a bunch of former bankers like us to help you plant and take care of the livestock.

    My uncle owns farmland that he rents out to a bunch of corn farmers. I'm not sure how many acres he has but he pulls in maybe 70k a year for which he pays my uncle a flat rate (say 30 every year). Something like that. It's crazy though since some years he is down a ton of money. So the income stream swings wildly. Every time I see my uncle he says to me, he says, "Kid, whatever you do, don't be a farmer."

  • txjustin's picture

    I don't know your background or what happened, but if you're willing to put it out here in the open I'm sure people can attempt to help you out.

  • txjustin's picture

    Farmers live on loans. I grew up in a very rural area and many of my family members are still farmers. Not for the faint hearted.

  • In reply to txjustin
    monkeysama's picture

    txjustin:
    Farmers live on loans. I grew up in a very rural area and many of my family members are still farmers. Not for the faint hearted.

    Yeah, they're almost forced to play the futures market. So not only do you have to be someone who can work their ass of outdoors and actually lug shit for a living (not easy!) you have to be financially savvy enough to play derivatives. Scary stuff.

  • In reply to rebelcross
    UFOinsider's picture

    rebelcross:
    txjustin:
    So you're just gonna wallow in your pity?

    Leads to a severe case of chronic leftism.


    Went there for a short while years ago, it wasn't pretty. I was poor and isolated, and they dragged me into their stupid fucking 'cause'. Now, when we fuck with the asshole protesters in front of the NYSE, it's actually personal for me. assholes. seriously. That reminds me, I need to pick up some eggs or something to throw at them next week, some big 'green' thing is coming up.

    I'm going to hell, who's coming with me?

    MONKEYSAMA -> hit the gym, get a good night's sleep, and tomorrow morning, start flooding LinkedIn. ALSO, use facebook: it's completely free, and is actually easier than LinkedIn. Do a search by company name and send private messages. Make sure to clean up your profile first though, people judge by what they see.

    Get busy living

  • In reply to monkeysama
    econ's picture

    monkeysama:
    econ:
    monkeysama:
    Why? They're equally pointless, but at least right now I'm being entertained. I really don't ever see myself being able to restart anything resembling a career again.

    Dude, you're going to be fine. One's career is a marathon, not a sprint. I can empathize with you, as I've been unemployed for 5 months (and am honestly not sure when I'll receive an offer). You're a smart guy with a technical background, things will work out for you. Look man, transitions are always tough. Don't mistake a tough transition for hopelessness, you have a lot more going for you than many, many people. Less than a month ago, I met a lady who is Senior Vice President at a successful, fast-growing startup. This lady used to teach K-12 art (for several years, mind you) and quit. She then took an extremely low-level career at a startup, and became VP there after 10 years. Once they were bought out, she found a new job at a new startup, which is where she's at now (as a SVP). No offense, but I suspect you have it nowhere as difficult as she did (especially when you consider she had a family when she quit her teaching job). I understand you're down on yourself right now, but I urge you to start thinking about it rationally. Plenty of people with worse backgrounds than you have succeeded at a fairly high-level.

    We'll see. Thanks for the encouragement though.

    I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. (Funny thing is, I probably won't be able to tell whether your reply is sarcastic or serious, either. Man, the internet sucks sometimes.)

  • In reply to econ
    UFOinsider's picture

    econ:
    monkeysama:
    econ:
    monkeysama:
    Why? They're equally pointless, but at least right now I'm being entertained. I really don't ever see myself being able to restart anything resembling a career again.

    Dude, you're going to be fine. One's career is a marathon, not a sprint. I can empathize with you, as I've been unemployed for 5 months (and am honestly not sure when I'll receive an offer). You're a smart guy with a technical background, things will work out for you. Look man, transitions are always tough. Don't mistake a tough transition for hopelessness, you have a lot more going for you than many, many people. Less than a month ago, I met a lady who is Senior Vice President at a successful, fast-growing startup. This lady used to teach K-12 art (for several years, mind you) and quit. She then took an extremely low-level career at a startup, and became VP there after 10 years. Once they were bought out, she found a new job at a new startup, which is where she's at now (as a SVP). No offense, but I suspect you have it nowhere as difficult as she did (especially when you consider she had a family when she quit her teaching job). I understand you're down on yourself right now, but I urge you to start thinking about it rationally. Plenty of people with worse backgrounds than you have succeeded at a fairly high-level.

    We'll see. Thanks for the encouragement though.

    I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. (Funny thing is, I probably won't be able to tell whether your reply is sarcastic or serious, either. Man, the internet sucks sometimes.)


    Judging by past posts, I would say he's serious.

    Get busy living

  • In reply to UFOinsider
    monkeysama's picture

    UFOinsider:
    rebelcross:
    txjustin:
    So you're just gonna wallow in your pity?

    Leads to a severe case of chronic leftism.


    Went there for a short while years ago, it wasn't pretty. I was poor and isolated, and they dragged me into their stupid fucking 'cause'. Now, when we fuck with the asshole protesters in front of the NYSE, it's actually personal for me. assholes. seriously. That reminds me, I need to pick up some eggs or something to throw at them next week, some big 'green' thing is coming up.

    I'm going to hell, who's coming with me?

    MONKEYSAMA -> hit the gym, get a good night's sleep, and tomorrow morning, start flooding LinkedIn. ALSO, use facebook: it's completely free, and is actually easier than LinkedIn. Do a search by company name and send private messages. Make sure to clean up your profile first though, people judge by what they see.

    You seem to be under the impression that I haven't already done that and failed miserably. For months. I'm done man.

  • In reply to econ
    monkeysama's picture

    econ:
    monkeysama:
    econ:
    monkeysama:
    Why? They're equally pointless, but at least right now I'm being entertained. I really don't ever see myself being able to restart anything resembling a career again.

    Dude, you're going to be fine. One's career is a marathon, not a sprint. I can empathize with you, as I've been unemployed for 5 months (and am honestly not sure when I'll receive an offer). You're a smart guy with a technical background, things will work out for you. Look man, transitions are always tough. Don't mistake a tough transition for hopelessness, you have a lot more going for you than many, many people. Less than a month ago, I met a lady who is Senior Vice President at a successful, fast-growing startup. This lady used to teach K-12 art (for several years, mind you) and quit. She then took an extremely low-level career at a startup, and became VP there after 10 years. Once they were bought out, she found a new job at a new startup, which is where she's at now (as a SVP). No offense, but I suspect you have it nowhere as difficult as she did (especially when you consider she had a family when she quit her teaching job). I understand you're down on yourself right now, but I urge you to start thinking about it rationally. Plenty of people with worse backgrounds than you have succeeded at a fairly high-level.

    We'll see. Thanks for the encouragement though.

    I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. (Funny thing is, I probably won't be able to tell whether your reply is sarcastic or serious, either. Man, the internet sucks sometimes.)

    Oh, no I was serious. I was debating an exclamation market at the end of the second sentence, but it really didn't feel exclamatory. I tend not to use sarcasm - generally when I feel the situation calls for me to tell someone how stupid they are I tend not to believe they would be able to grasp my facetiousness.

  • In reply to monkeysama
    bfin's picture

    monkeysama:
    UFOinsider:
    rebelcross:
    txjustin:
    So you're just gonna wallow in your pity?

    Leads to a severe case of chronic leftism.


    Went there for a short while years ago, it wasn't pretty. I was poor and isolated, and they dragged me into their stupid fucking 'cause'. Now, when we fuck with the asshole protesters in front of the NYSE, it's actually personal for me. assholes. seriously. That reminds me, I need to pick up some eggs or something to throw at them next week, some big 'green' thing is coming up.

    I'm going to hell, who's coming with me?

    MONKEYSAMA -> hit the gym, get a good night's sleep, and tomorrow morning, start flooding LinkedIn. ALSO, use facebook: it's completely free, and is actually easier than LinkedIn. Do a search by company name and send private messages. Make sure to clean up your profile first though, people judge by what they see.

    You seem to be under the impression that I haven't already done that and failed miserably. For months. I'm done man.

    I hate to be that guy but your idea of giving up on your career search is the same idea you have on helping the poor... just because it doesn't hit a homerun when you first try it out doesn't mean it isn't doing anything. Doing something is always going to be better than doing nothing...

    But what do I know..

    The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

    WSO is not your personal search function.

  • In reply to GoodBread
    prinmemo's picture

    GoodBread:
    1 child, 2 child policy? Whatever happened to freedom and capitalism? You guys are assuming that every child born to parents who make under 30k will end up being a welfare recipient. No. These guys will be the farmers, construction workers, burger flippers, nurses, school teachers, policemen, firemen, secretaries, and for a lucky few bankers of our future. If we restrict demographic growth now, the US will be forcing a dwindling amount of workers to pay for millions of baby boomers' Medicare and shriveling tax receipts. Good luck pushing IPOs and mergers when your markets are inexorably shrinking (you guys do realize people making under 30k buy Ipods and use Facebook too, right?).

    The American middle class isn't being destroyed by welfare recipients and Obama. It is now on the losing end of global imbalances correcting themselves as wage differentials between developed nations and the BRICs are being compressed and we ever so slowly creep back into being competitive in the industrial field. The people getting hit are the workers taking pay cuts and giving up benefits to keep their jobs. The winners are the top 1% dispensing advice and providing capital for the intervening restructuring process.

    Good post.

  • In reply to econ
    prinmemo's picture

    econ:
    monkeysama:
    Some people don't have a

    CHOICE

    Eating is a right, not a privilege. Try and grasp that.

    Depend on what kind of rights we're talking about. A lot of people will tell you that human beings have the right to be free of force, but not the right to food, housing, etc. Dr. Walter Williams explains it pretty well in this short article titled "Rights versus Wishes": http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/politics/rights/...

    At the heart of the argument, is this:

    We hear so much about "rights" -- a right to this and a right to that. People say they have a right to decent housing, a right to adequate health care, food and a decent job, and more recently, senior citizens have a right to prescription drugs. In a free society, do people have these rights? Let's look at it.

    At least in the standard historical usage of the term, a right is something that exists simultaneously among people. A right confers no obligation on another. For example, the right to free speech is something we all possess. My right to free speech imposes no obligation upon another except that of non-interference. Similarly, I have a right to travel freely. That right imposes no obligation upon another except that of non-interference.

    Contrast those rights to the supposed right to decent housing or medical care. Those supposed rights do confer obligations upon others. There is no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy. If you don't have money to pay for decent housing or medical services, and the government gives you a right to those services, where do you think the money comes from?

    More importantly, you're not talking about taking billionaires money to feed the poor. You're talking about taking billionaires money to change the income distribution, in a society in which "the poor" are far from starving. If what you're really concerned with is feeding "the poor" than you should be all for taxing the sh*t out of lower, middle, and upper income Americans, in order to feed the real poor (you know, those people in third world countries). I suspect you don't like that idea though because as far as I can tell, one of the main reasons you're so in favor of taxing the wealthy, is not because you're trying to feed the poor. It seems, you're just against the economic gains the rich have earned, and you simply wish that different outcomes had occurred, and you want to use coercion and politics to make your wishes a reality (regardless of how much other people share your wishes).

    It's negative vs. positive rights. Some people believe only political and civil liberties are rights, whereas others also think there are economic and social rights (and some even cultural rights). Clearly, you believe in only political and civil rights. Sounds like monkeysama believes in some economic and social rights. I agree with him. This whole thing boils down to values. I don't take it personally. I believe in certain rights and others believe in others. How this country is run depends on who wins elections and who the parties are representing the most.

    For the record, and no offense, all of this theoretical stuff in these debates (like coercion, etc.) is utter bullshit. The American people are practical. Too much political theory really cuts off compromise because those that are very theoretical are way too dogmatic. Again, no offense. Governing a country is not like defending a dissertation.

  • In reply to prinmemo
    econ's picture

    prinmemo:
    For the record, and no offense, all of this theoretical stuff in these debates (like coercion, etc.) is utter bullshit. The American people are practical. Too much political theory really cuts off compromise because those that are very theoretical are way too dogmatic. Again, no offense. Governing a country is not like defending a dissertation.

    What I propose is pretty simple and straightforward, so I don't know what you're talking about with all this "theory" nonsense, which is precisely why these things wouldn't make it into any solid dissertations these days, it's not complicated enough.

    And, I have no idea how "the American people are practical" has anything to do with what we're talking about here. Feel free to explain to me because I honestly don't know what that's supposed to mean in the context of this debate.

  • In reply to prinmemo
    awm55's picture

    prinmemo:
    econ:
    monkeysama:
    Some people don't have a

    CHOICE

    Eating is a right, not a privilege. Try and grasp that.

    Depend on what kind of rights we're talking about. A lot of people will tell you that human beings have the right to be free of force, but not the right to food, housing, etc. Dr. Walter Williams explains it pretty well in this short article titled "Rights versus Wishes": http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/politics/rights/...

    At the heart of the argument, is this:

    We hear so much about "rights" -- a right to this and a right to that. People say they have a right to decent housing, a right to adequate health care, food and a decent job, and more recently, senior citizens have a right to prescription drugs. In a free society, do people have these rights? Let's look at it.

    At least in the standard historical usage of the term, a right is something that exists simultaneously among people. A right confers no obligation on another. For example, the right to free speech is something we all possess. My right to free speech imposes no obligation upon another except that of non-interference. Similarly, I have a right to travel freely. That right imposes no obligation upon another except that of non-interference.

    Contrast those rights to the supposed right to decent housing or medical care. Those supposed rights do confer obligations upon others. There is no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy. If you don't have money to pay for decent housing or medical services, and the government gives you a right to those services, where do you think the money comes from?

    More importantly, you're not talking about taking billionaires money to feed the poor. You're talking about taking billionaires money to change the income distribution, in a society in which "the poor" are far from starving. If what you're really concerned with is feeding "the poor" than you should be all for taxing the sh*t out of lower, middle, and upper income Americans, in order to feed the real poor (you know, those people in third world countries). I suspect you don't like that idea though because as far as I can tell, one of the main reasons you're so in favor of taxing the wealthy, is not because you're trying to feed the poor. It seems, you're just against the economic gains the rich have earned, and you simply wish that different outcomes had occurred, and you want to use coercion and politics to make your wishes a reality (regardless of how much other people share your wishes).

    It's negative vs. positive rights. Some people believe only political and civil liberties are rights, whereas others also think there are economic and social rights (and some even cultural rights). Clearly, you believe in only political and civil rights. Sounds like monkeysama believes in some economic and social rights. I agree with him. This whole thing boils down to values. I don't take it personally. I believe in certain rights and others believe in others. How this country is run depends on who wins elections and who the parties are representing the most.

    For the record, and no offense, all of this theoretical stuff in these debates (like coercion, etc.) is utter bullshit. The American people are practical. Too much political theory really cuts off compromise because those that are very theoretical are way too dogmatic. Again, no offense. Governing a country is not like defending a dissertation.

    I agree, theory is all well and good but it really does distract from practical solutions.

  • In reply to econ
    monkeysama's picture

    econ:
    prinmemo:
    For the record, and no offense, all of this theoretical stuff in these debates (like coercion, etc.) is utter bullshit. The American people are practical. Too much political theory really cuts off compromise because those that are very theoretical are way too dogmatic. Again, no offense. Governing a country is not like defending a dissertation.

    What I propose is pretty simple and straightforward, so I don't know what you're talking about with all this "theory" nonsense, which is precisely why these things wouldn't make it into any solid dissertations these days, it's not complicated enough.

    And, I have no idea how "the American people are practical" has anything to do with what we're talking about here. Feel free to explain to me because I honestly don't know what that's supposed to mean in the context of this debate.

    Well he's criticizing our argument over what constitutes coercion versus noncoercion. For the most part Americans don't give a shit and as long as they got some cash, some sex, and American Idol they could give a flying fuck. I think his argument also is that as long as we argue from a standpoint of political and philosophical theory than actual dollars and sense (heehee!) then we won't make any progress. I think without a solid foundation in political philosophy you're doomed to lick the boot heels of your oppressors, but then what do I know.

  • txjustin's picture

    And who are these "oppressors" you speak of?

  • In reply to txjustin
    monkeysama's picture

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