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This is frankly infuriating. Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin and the State Legislature are trying to pass a bill that will strip Unions of collective bargaining rights and shift a fraction of their pension and healthcare cuts onto them. This is an average of a $153 pay cut per month. The Unions are in uproar about this, frankly it is idiotic.

1. The state would have to fire 6,000 workers if this bill is not passed. So the Unions are essentially sending their lackeys out to campaign for marginally higher wages, and to lose jobs. And before you say, "those teachers get no $, ~$1400 is a lot to them" the average teacher in a city in Wisconsin gets paid $100,000 $100,000!!!!!

Average MPS Compensation Tops $100k - MacIver News

2. The school teachers have all "called in sick" and caused state wide shutdowns of the public education system. OK...that's helping out the students. I say fire 6,000 teachers. Do we really need college graduates to teach PE, Art, Remedial Math, etc.? No.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-02182011-mps-clos...

3. It's not like the rights will be gone forever, in a few years there will be a referendum to decide whether to restore the government worker's union rights. But they know the taxpayers don't wanna pay teachers $100k to bitch about low pay and shitty students.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline...

4. When Jesse Jackson is organizing shit, you know your're in the wrong.

http://www.wkbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=14058089

5. The Democrats in the legislature in Wisconsin ran away to Illinois to avoid passing the law due to there not being a quorum. This happened in Texas too. Hopefully one senator has a conscience or remained in state so they can be forcefully escorted to the capitol. They should all be arrested. If a normal person skipped out on his job for multiple days he would be fired on solid grounds, if Senators do it, it's the democratic and right thing to do...disgusting.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116434554.html

6. Obama supports the unions....surprise surprise. They forced donations to his political campaign and they are one of the few areas that actually support what he is doing. When what has been happening to the private sector for the past few years (losing jobs, lower wages, etc.) happens to the public....well we can't stand for that. Our ratio of managers to workers in government is like 1:6 vs. like 1:23 for the private sector.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/DNC_pl...

DON'T GIVE UP SCOTT I SUPPORT YOU!!!!!!

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/1...

Comments (75)

  • TNA's picture

    Thanks for making another thread like this.

    The people of Wisconsin, but a majority (52% - 46.5%), elected a Republican, cost cutting Governor and Legislature. Instead of saying your point like an adult and losing like an adult, Democrats have decided to simply flee the state. This is not a dictatorship. This is not military rule. This was what the MAJORITY of people wanted.

    Naa, lets just leave the state and hide until a couple thousand protesters go hog wild and schools get crippled from teachers walking out.

    Wisconsin has a population of 5.7MM.

    1,128,000 voted for the Republican Gov.

    The House and Senate seats went to the Republicans. The State legislature went to the Republicans.

    But because of 1000+ protesters, people who are not going to lose their job or pay or anything, simply not be able to hamstring the government for pay and benefits and life time employment, something that non of us have, the capital is in a stand still.

    I pray to god that this passes. Health care was rammed through. The Republicans did everything they could to stop it, but it passed. You didn't see congressmen going to other countries to avoid voting.

    It is Democracy if you are going with the Democrats, but if you vote against their base, it is a Dictatorship.

    Wisconsin is the flash point. The enemy has show itself. That enemy is called the public service unions.

  • invictus's picture

    Of course if the sensible people in Wisconsin decided to stop paying taxes for these deadbeat asshats, they'd be sent to jail immediately. Yet politicians can just walk out on their jobs and be applauded as heroes.

    Then again what does it matter. Someone should just call the Bernak and tell him to take a 5 minute break from making it rain $1,000,000 bills in the club and print the shortfall...

  • PTS's picture

    the worst part is for the teachers who don't want to be part of a union. my mom used to teach and started working in a district with a heavy union. she decided not to join and to bargain for herself by actually doing a good job. this lasted for about 2 months while EVERYONE else who worked at the school completely shunned her for not joining their group-o-thugs and trying to earn her paycheck. sickening

  • MMBinNC's picture

    http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/14584

    Michigan Capitol Convention wrote:

    The total compensation of a West Bloomfield teacher grew 173 percent over an 11-year period, going from $47,346 to $129,637, according to information that was presented at a school board meeting in December.

    West Bloomfield teachers do not do any premium sharing for health insurance and do not have a deductible in their plan, Andrees said.

    I wish I could work 9 months a year, get paid $130k, and have a healthcare plan that pays for everything.

    Reality hits you hard, bro...

  • TNA's picture

    Read up on graduation rates for Wisconsin Madison schools. These people are doing a horrible job. I love how Dems simply flee the state instead of stoically losing the vote. How is that listening to the majority of Wisconsin residents. Dems are going to get killed on this issue. Only unions and die hard Dems will vote.

  • blue4you's picture

    Using state troopers to hunt down runaway Democrats is a huge waste of resources. Get back to your office, do your job, and quit complaining about reforms that are necessary to control your state's budget. Making nice with overpaid and underworked public employees is no way to reform a broken fiscal situation.

    It's infuriating to me when people complain about huge state deficits and then don't have any tolerance for cuts in public spending. The pain must happen.

  • In reply to TNA
    ivoteforthatguy's picture

    ANT wrote:
    Nooooooooo, more political threads. As long as it is in off topics it is good to go.

    This should be a lesson to all the kids looking for work. Be able to form an opinion and keep up with current events. Bankers like to talk about other stuff than finance.

    So true, ANT, so true.

    These whining state workers really piss me off too. They should have researched their exit ops more clearly before deciding to teach third grade.

  • IlliniProgrammer's picture

    I think the governor needs to win in this case. But I think he needs to do something to show he's trying to be reasonable. Meanwhile, all of the media is up in Madison while the Dems are hiding, so time is on the Republicans' side.

    He needs to make the case that public sector unions are different than private unions. The public sector doesn't have the same impetus to reduce costs and certainly don't have a monopsony on work.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    eokpar02's picture

    IlliniProgrammer wrote:
    I think the governor needs to win in this case. But I think he needs to do something to show he's trying to be reasonable. Meanwhile, all of the media is up in Madison while the Dems are hiding, so time is on the Republicans' side.

    He needs to make the case that public sector unions are different than private unions. The public sector doesn't have the same impetus to reduce costs and certainly don't have a monopsony on work.

    Dude, the Governor couldn't be more reasonable.

    I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
    -Styles P

  • TNA's picture

    The Gov is actually being very reasonable.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/41664854

    "Governor Walker is facing a $3.6 billion budget deficit, and he wants state workers to pay one-half of their pension costs and 12.6 percent of their health benefits. Currently, most state employees pay nothing for their pensions and virtually nothing for their health insurance. That’s an outrage. "

    "Exempting police, fire, and state troopers, Governor Walker would end collective bargaining over pensions and benefits for the rest. Collective bargaining for wages would still be permitted, but there would be no wage hikes above the CPI. Unions could still represent workers, but they could not force employees to pay dues. In exchange for this, Walker promises no furloughs for layoffs. "

    These seem very reasonable to me. Taking Police and Fire out of it makes sense also. These people are in dangerous professions and demand different things than a teacher.

    Plain fact is this. People elected this government in Wis. The elected government is making changes. Dem's didn't win so they simply left the state.

    I'll tell you what. This is a PR disaster for public unions. Going ape shit over something so trivial while large 10% + of this country is out of work makes you look horrible. This is not how elected officials should react.

    I hope that along with crushing the union monopoly, Walker adds a rule that says you don't need one Democrat around to do things. This is the biggest joke I have seen in a long time.

    Democrats, the party that LEAVES THE STATE and hides, to avoid something that has majority support.

    Real hard to feel bad for public unions when this shit is going on.

    Remember guys, Democracy means doing what the left wants.

  • heister's picture

    Why doesnt the governer just recall the senators who fleed? If they fail to return they loose their seats and get arrested.

    Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

    Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

  • In reply to heister
    heister's picture

    heister wrote:
    Why doesnt the governer just recall the senators who fled? If they fail to return they loose their seats and get arrested.

    Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

    Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

  • TNA's picture

    1) The Police are excluded from this so they don't care

    2) They have fled the state, Wisconsin cannot go into Illinois and get people. Ill is also a Dem bastion

    3) This will just drag on and make the unions and the Dems look bad. They are basically going against the will of the people because they don't like something. Longer this goes on, the better for the Republicans.

  • IlliniProgrammer's picture

    To you guys, he's very reasonable but ANT is a die-hard fiscal conservative. I feel like I fall in the 65th-70th percentile of the political spectrum towards fiscal conservativism, and I agree with Walker, but he's not making a good enough case to the swing voter.

    The unions have done a very good job of making themselves out to be the underdogs over the past 72 hours and that they're also willing to negotiate with him.

    Walker needs to explain this a little better and maybe adjust a provision or two. By my reading:

    1.)WI becomes a right-to-work state for public employees. No union dues collected out of paychecks.
    2.)Public service employees prohibited from seeking pay increases in excess of CPI.

    I think Walker should maybe rethink some of the provisions of #2. If we really believe in a free market, right-to-work should be all the protection school districts need from unions. The fact is that maybe most teachers in WI might be well-paid, but some might be underpaid. And if the market for teachers heats up, we don't want everyone heading off to Arizona.

    So I think the most important version of Walker's bill is #1, and it wouldn't clearly destroy the unions- it would just weaken their ability to get above-market wages and allow employees to make their own decisions about whether they wanted to be represented by a union or not. If Walker does this and the AFSCME is willing to agree to that compromise, it's a huge boon for the Right-To-Work movement and will hopefully spread to other Midwestern states.

    IMHO, if workers are earning more than 3x minimum wage, unions risk becoming bullies. There needs to be a provision that a company can become a right-to-work firm if it decides to pay every employee at least 2x minimum wage.

  • In reply to TNA
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    ANT wrote:
    1) The Police are excluded from this so they don't care

    2) They have fled the state, Wisconsin cannot go into Illinois and get people. Ill is also a Dem bastion

    3) This will just drag on and make the unions and the Dems look bad. They are basically going against the will of the people because they don't like something. Longer this goes on, the better for the Republicans.

    I think time is on the governor's side, but he can't risk looking too cold-hearted in all of this. He needs to keep making the case that Wisconsin is in deep fiscal trouble if it doesn't fix the union situation. And yes, it's a tough pill to swallow for state workers, but everyone in the state has been swallowing tough pills for the past three years, and it's time for unionized workers to follow.

    There also needs to be a little bit more of a conciliatory tone.

  • TNA's picture

    Honestly, lie to get the scum back to their posts and then ram it through. Unions need to be broken.

    Could someone please tell me what injustice, harsh working condition or unfair labor practice is being committed to these poor teachers and government workers?

    Unionizing was great back in the day. Now a bunch of paper pushers have realize the power of the mob and have unionized. This isn't some miner dying of exhaustion from a 16 hour day. No need for these guys to collectively bargain.

  • In reply to blastoise
    happypantsmcgee's picture

    blastoise wrote:
    i disagree i think unions should be able to form and this processes is good for americans i never seen so much white people who eat cheese in 1 place

    Goddamn you say some hilarious shit dude.

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

  • In The Flesh's picture

    Walker could also take a page from Christie's book. He found a way to expose the public sector unions for the greedy fools they are and was able to get his budget passed. One of the biggest keys was that Youtube video of him completely owning a teacher who was complaining about her salary and full healthcare benefits. The guy's a genius.

    Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

  • prinmemo's picture

    I don't believe for a minute the average teacher in Wisconsin makes $100K per year. That link you gave seems questionable at best. If you can cite a more credible authority I will gladly eat my words.

  • MMBinNC's picture

    Well the MacIver Institute is pretty well-cited across the news media. Whatever. If you look at Michelle Malkin's website (don't really like her but w/e) it elaborates on MacIvers research and also has a list of the teachers/administrators who have a base salary of 100k or more.

    http://michellemalkin.com/2011/02/17/watch-wiscons...

    Reality hits you hard, bro...

  • MMBinNC's picture

    And its not 100k cash, its like 50k cash 50k benefits. For less than 9 months of work, thats what 67k a year if they worked every month? And the benefits are ridiculous, no deductible/contribution healthcare? Ridiculous amounts of sick days? This is idiotic.

    Reality hits you hard, bro...

  • In reply to prinmemo
    ThaVanBurenBoyz's picture

    prinmemo wrote:
    I don't believe for a minute the average teacher in Wisconsin makes $100K per year. That link you gave seems questionable at best. If you can cite a more credible authority I will gladly eat my words.

    prinmemo wrote:
    I found more than a few links TOTALLY debunking your claim how much the average teacher makes per year. Makes me question basically all of your other claims.

    If I were an MD and you pulled this on a pitch, I'd fire you.


    1) The $100k figure was for the Milwaukee public system, not the Wisconsin public system.
    2) The figures you'll find from indeed.com (and the like) are average starting salaries, not average salaries of all employed teachers. Big difference.
    3) The figure they cited was from a school board meeting.

  • In reply to prinmemo
    ah's picture

    prinmemo wrote:
    I found more than a few links TOTALLY debunking your claim how much the average teacher makes per year. Makes me question basically all of your other claims.

    If I were an MD and you pulled this on a pitch, I'd fire you.

    That's right, make personal attacks like a real adult...

    So what if it's not $100k? I think you're rather missing the bigger argument here.

    I personally think is highly highly unethical for these so called teachers to 1) want to free ride through the crisis and let others take the cuts, and 2) simply walk out on the kids for money - doesn't matter how much it is. If you can't dedicate yourself to education you shouldn't be a teacher in the first place.

    (And this is not to mention that a major problem with America's public education is that you can't fire incapable teachers as easily as you should be able to)

    Oh and I totally loved watching this one teacher (opposing the protestors) scream to the crowd that they're all effing selfish trolls (not his words exactly).

    I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.

  • In reply to ah
    blastoise's picture

    ah wrote:
    prinmemo wrote:
    I found more than a few links TOTALLY debunking your claim how much the average teacher makes per year. Makes me question basically all of your other claims.

    If I were an MD and you pulled this on a pitch, I'd fire you.

    That's right, make personal attacks like a real adult...

    So what if it's not $100k? I think you're rather missing the bigger argument here.

    I personally think is highly highly unethical for these so called teachers to 1) want to free ride through the crisis and let others take the cuts, and 2) simply walk out on the kids for money - doesn't matter how much it is. If you can't dedicate yourself to education you shouldn't be a teacher in the first place.

    (And this is not to mention that a major problem with America's public education is that you can't fire incapable teachers as easily as you should be able to)

    Oh and I totally loved watching this one teacher (opposing the protestors) scream to the crowd that they're all effing selfish trolls (not his words exactly).

  • In reply to blastoise
    ah's picture

    blastoise wrote:

    hahaha not much of a story i know.. but he made my day :)

    I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.

  • In reply to ThaVanBurenBoyz
    prinmemo's picture

    ThaVanBurenBoyz wrote:
    prinmemo wrote:
    I don't believe for a minute the average teacher in Wisconsin makes $100K per year. That link you gave seems questionable at best. If you can cite a more credible authority I will gladly eat my words.

    prinmemo wrote:
    I found more than a few links TOTALLY debunking your claim how much the average teacher makes per year. Makes me question basically all of your other claims.

    If I were an MD and you pulled this on a pitch, I'd fire you.


    1) The $100k figure was for the Milwaukee public system, not the Wisconsin public system.
    2) The figures you'll find from indeed.com (and the like) are average starting salaries, not average salaries of all employed teachers. Big difference.
    3) The figure they cited was from a school board meeting.

    1) I checked and the average salary for Milwaukee teachers (not starting, but average) is around 45K (give or take a few grand). All of the sources I found tended to be old citations - from earlier this year - and from nonpartisan sources.

    2) It just so happens that the only times I found average salaries to be above 100K were from political blogs that had an agenda.

    3) Given 1 & 2 above, I don't believe this claim is true. Again, if someone can cite for me a specific, non-partisan source then I'd be happy to eat my words. Thus far, I have not gotten any such citation.

  • In reply to ah
    prinmemo's picture

    ah wrote:
    prinmemo wrote:
    I found more than a few links TOTALLY debunking your claim how much the average teacher makes per year. Makes me question basically all of your other claims.

    If I were an MD and you pulled this on a pitch, I'd fire you.

    That's right, make personal attacks like a real adult...

    So what if it's not $100k? I think you're rather missing the bigger argument here.

    I personally think is highly highly unethical for these so called teachers to 1) want to free ride through the crisis and let others take the cuts, and 2) simply walk out on the kids for money - doesn't matter how much it is. If you can't dedicate yourself to education you shouldn't be a teacher in the first place.

    (And this is not to mention that a major problem with America's public education is that you can't fire incapable teachers as easily as you should be able to)

    Oh and I totally loved watching this one teacher (opposing the protestors) scream to the crowd that they're all effing selfish trolls (not his words exactly).

    Ant, I actually agree with basically everything you're saying. It is true that teacher's unions often get in the way of advancing education in this country. I also believe that states have to find ways to control spending, otherwise they'll get further into a fiscal hole. Something has to be done. I agree with all of that.

    The reason I pointed out that the claim made by the OP about average salaries is wrong is because if we're going to have an honest debate about what exactly needs to be done to fix our fiscal mess we need to be factually accurate. When someone starts making ridiculously false claims then you start to wonder whether that person has a personal political agenda and not a real concern about fixing some problem. Claiming that teacher's make an average of $100K per year makes it sound like resolving this fiscal problem is much easier than it really is.

    I don't know. I am a stickler for facts. And I don't like it when either side tries to manipulate facts in order to win a political debate. I prefer intellectually honest debates. Based on what I've read from your posts, I would think you do, too, even if we disagree about how we should resolve issues.

  • In reply to prinmemo
    txjustin's picture

    prinmemo wrote:
    ThaVanBurenBoyz wrote:
    prinmemo wrote:
    I don't believe for a minute the average teacher in Wisconsin makes $100K per year. That link you gave seems questionable at best. If you can cite a more credible authority I will gladly eat my words.

    prinmemo wrote:
    I found more than a few links TOTALLY debunking your claim how much the average teacher makes per year. Makes me question basically all of your other claims.

    If I were an MD and you pulled this on a pitch, I'd fire you.


    1) The $100k figure was for the Milwaukee public system, not the Wisconsin public system.
    2) The figures you'll find from indeed.com (and the like) are average starting salaries, not average salaries of all employed teachers. Big difference.
    3) The figure they cited was from a school board meeting.

    1) I checked and the average salary for Milwaukee teachers (not starting, but average) is around 45K (give or take a few grand). All of the sources I found tended to be old citations - from earlier this year - and from nonpartisan sources.

    2) It just so happens that the only times I found average salaries to be above 100K were from political blogs that had an agenda.

    3) Given 1 & 2 above, I don't believe this claim is true. Again, if someone can cite for me a specific, non-partisan source then I'd be happy to eat my words. Thus far, I have not gotten any such citation.

    I'm pretty sure he said it was $100K all in...pensions, healthcare, etc.

  • prinmemo's picture

    I still don't believe it. Like I said, I am willing to eat my words if someone offers me a credible, non-partisan source for this. Up to this point, no one has offered such a source. Until proven otherwise, I am not willing to accept this claim as fact. Nevertheless, I do think there needs to be reform. I just dislike all the lies and distortions.

  • ThaVanBurenBoyz's picture

    Yeah, that blog stated $56.5k average salary, $100k for full compensation. And actually, the proof that it came from a school board meeting was embedded in that blog post itself:

    The Manager of Financial Planning, at the school board meeting, noted the $100k figure @ 0:48.

  • ThaVanBurenBoyz's picture

    Quite frankly, I don't care if you believe it or not, so good luck with the documentation search. I've got shit to do.

    Also, though Deb Wegner resembles a linebacker, I believe that Deb is a "she" not a "he." Show some respect (lol).

  • prinmemo's picture

    lol.

    I wasn't asking you specifically to look it up. The fact that no one has been able to document this shows that perhaps people don't really know what they're talking about. That's all. I don't care what you think either way, either. I just enjoy debate, so if you're not into that then that's cool, too. No worries.

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