BB Dreams, MM Nightmares

My question in summary: Can I get to a BB from a dwindling MM firm?

Sorry. I had to edit this. I distorted some of the facts in my original post to conceal my identity, but I still think I put out too much information.

Thanks for your responses. It's really appreciated.

 

In this case you will, unfortunately, need to be patient and focus on some hard networking. It sounds like you've got some solid IB experience, and are annoyed about no bonus (no offense, but stop bitching - a ton of people who are unemployed right now would love to be working for a paycheck and picking up marketable experience at the same time - and yes, not getting a bonus sucks big time). Working for an MM who has been hurt by the crisis is not going to kill you in terms of recruiting, as long as you've got some transaction exposure and overall good experience. The key at this stage will be to reach out to friends, alumni, and any other contacts that you may have to slowly begin getting your name out there and planting the seed. As the market continues to thaw, banks will start hiring again, and when that time comes you will want to have some contacts ready to help you out.

Regarding B school - if that is something that you are definitely interested in, attending a top school will certainly help you to break into a BB as an associate, but if it is something that you are more or less just kicking around, I would first get my resume in order, and starting networking. There will probably be some opportunities in the next several months, it's just a matter of making sure your name is on a few people's tongues (again, I am assuming you're working in an unfortunately slumping bank, but have amassed a solid set of experiences). Bottom line, be patient, be proactive, and please don't bitch about your bonus to anyone else who will know your identity - it just sounds like you're only in it for the money - which whether or not that is true, is not something you want to be tossing around freely to people who may consider passing your resume on.

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I think I over-emphasized the bonus issue.

I'm more concerned about my marketability as an individual coming from a dwindling bank and whether or not my bank will shut down completely. I'd be happy to stick it out a full two years with no bonus paid in either year, but my biggest fear is that I won't see my second year, and I'll be forced onto the job market prematurely (or at least before I wanted to "go to market").

 
Best Response

i don't mind you bitching about no bonus. that blows, but given this mkt and your firms position it is understandable.

what is kind of silly is you could have ended up at a BB and also easily lost your job...so it's not as if the BBs are the solution to your problems of job security and compensation.

while the BBs are less likely to go under (since govt would likely step in), you would maybe have slightly more job security and a bit more pay. Where i think you are making a mistake is ruling out the elite MM banks and boutiques that are still doing well (or at least relatively). In this market, limiting yourself to BBs is foolish in my opinion when you could find a great IB job at a MM bank or even boutique that could give you as much compensation...and maybe even a better lifestyle depending where you ended up.

in a few years you could still always go back to B School if you dont love where you ended up and still chase the "BB Dream."

just something to consider. Patrick

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First, thanks for the responses.

Fair point edtkh. Where do I see myself? Let's start at the end and work backwards from there.

In the long term (15+ years): My goal is to amount enough capital to run my own boutique private equity firm or VC fund focused on tech. In the end, I want to be an INVESTOR. I want to wake up every morning and think about different ways to invest my personal wealth. That's my dream job. So what type of jobs in the medium term will get me where I want to be in the long term?

In the medium term (5-15 years), I see myself working on Wall Street in either investment banking or private equity. I think both would help me get to where I want to go. Either way, I would be analyzing deals.

Patrick, I have a big hard-on for working at a BB because, right or wrong, I think the exit opps are SIGNIFICANTLY better when you come from a bank everyone recognizes. I think it's easy to move from a BB to a MM. It's much harder to move the opposite way. Correct me if you disagree.

Also, BB experience brands job candidates. Potential employers know within reason what they are going to get if they hire a BB analyst: modeling skills are standardized, these analysts were taught by the best finance professors in the world (such as Damodaran), they understand some of the more complicated finance and accounting issues MM analysts don't see because some of the deals are not big enough to warrant deep analyses, etc. When people see a MM bank on a resume, they have to interview you to find out; you could've worked for an eight-man shop that does deals south of $10mm in EV, or you could've worked on transactions north of $500mm. Additionally, not all MM banks have modeling standards. Modeling for one MD could be very different from another MD. In other words, it's much more difficult to learn the same "best practices" the BB analysts learned in their 6-8 week training.

Anyway, thanks for the insight. I don't know if it's just me and some of my fellow analysts, but I feel like the survivors - as grateful as we are to be survivors - are going crazy b/c we've seen over half our firm disappear in six months. The firm I received an offer from is an entirely different firm than the one I work for today. I'm doing everything I can to make the most of this situation, but I just want to better understand the potential for moving from MM to BB.

 

Whats Next, I hear you and the exit opps at BBs do tend to be significantly better compared to the average MM shop -- but the elite boutiques and top MM banks do have similar placement and compensation. i just think you should not narrow your search so much in this mkt, especially if you are so eager to jump the sinking ship.

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whats next- i feel very similar on a lot of those points. In fact, I wonder if we work for the same bank (19th 18th floor?). I still like my job for the transaction experience and employment though.

 

Whats next - I am in a very similar situation as you and feel the same woes as you do. I understand that BB's have better exit opportunities, but like Patrick said above, elite MM shops have amazing placements also. I would love to be able to move from a dying bank to a BB or elite MM, but to be frank, it is not an easy move. There are a ton of applicants to every i-banking job out there - some of them just like you and others who were formerly employed at BBs themselves. From my own recruiting / interviewing process, I know there are jobs opening in banking now, so there is opportunity, but these are mainly MM jobs, not really BBs.

Some things to consider when moving to a new bank. If you do not plan on doing banking for long-term, understand that moving to a new bank will require you to do banking longer, essentially past your 2 year program. This is because future employers do want to see a candidate jumping around from shop to shop. Completing an analyst program looks good, even at a lesser-known bank. If you hate banking and intend to wrap up your 2 years and leave, I'd recommend considering your move.

 

my bank is MM and is struggling. However, I lucked out and my group within the bank is doing great. I wouldn't call it shitty because its still great experience. Of course I wish i could write a brand name, but I may not have a job if I went to a bulge bracket. Its a tough market.

As to the mba comment, one of the analysts made it into a top 5 mba program recently. So, I dont think it matters. Perhaps a name brand would help, but you will find people from a variety of backgrounds in mba programs.

 

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