Cash Rules Everything Around Me

Dollar Dollar Bill y'all.

I think that your best bet would be to work for a CorpFin group at a F500 company. Your starting salary wouldn't be that great (probably around 55K), but after 7-10 years you would most likely be making around your range, if you continue to advance

thanks for the input steve. any other suggestions??

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

When do you apply for f500 corpfin (is recruiting primarily done through internships or at full time)? How competitive is it compared to other finance jobs?

Have you thought about Private Wealth Management? You might be able to get into a financial advisor training program at a BB.

Don't really want to do anything like PWM. Rather work a more finance oriented job than a relationship with individuals type job.

Any other suggestions?? And bump on f500 internship/recruit questions

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

I think the best way to make that kind of money in 7-10 years would be to work in a client service industry (accounting, law, consulting firms). In those jobs a lot of people leave every year, so you can pretty much count on a promotion up until you get to partner or MD level.

In corp. finance you're usually only guaranteed a promotion to senior analyst after 2-3 years. After that, it's pretty difficult to get to manager, director, or VP level since people don't quit those jobs that often. On top of that, in client service type jobs, if your firm has a good year, new spots can be created for partners and MD's. In corp. finance, there usually aren't new VP level jobs created just because the company did great.

Since you said you want more of a finance type job without extra grad school only thing I can really think of that's not F500 corp finance are things like Huron Consulting, Alvarez & Marsal, or go into the advisory practice of a big 4 accounting firm.

200-300k is not a lot of money for someone with 10 years of experience. You could even make that in ops at a bank or fund. You could probably even go into HR at one of these places and make that much after 10 years. You could do investment management at a mutual fund or investment research at a bank/sell side firm, which would should surpass your benchmark if you are decent.

In fact, I cannot think of many fields in which you could not make that much, provided that you are not incompetent.

omega if that is fair to say, lets say you raised the bar to 300k-400k, could you come up with more particular jobs/industries??

thanks

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

You should do investment management at a mutual fund or other asset management firm. Hours aren't bad, like banking. But 300-400k after 7-10 years is a very conservative estimate.

So, omega, if I join an asset management firm or a mutual fund like Fidelity after 7-10 years I could be making upwards of 300k-400k?

What could I do to help this besides start with CFA cert. and keeping GPA high/good internships??

p.s. thanks for advice, on this site sometimes it seems people do not want to do anything but flame

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

bump need more guidance

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

Yes, at a place like Fidelity, you could be making upwards of 400k after 7-10 years.

CFA cert is important in this field and you should get it at some point. Getting an internship at one of these places would probably be most important for getting a full time job.

"200-300k is not a lot of money for someone with 10 years of experience. You could even make that in ops at a bank or fund. You could probably even go into HR at one of these places and make that much after 10 years."

Omega, you are very naive if you actually believe that this is true. You are obviously fazed by the reputed salaries from senior bankers or buy-side members.

No way the typical employee who starts at Fidelity working in asset mgmt or in their mutual funds clears 400K after 7 or even 10 years. That is absurdly high.

Really nystateofmind? I heard equity research analysts in coverage groups at Fidelity start at ~80k all in. It seems to me that a solid performance during 7-10 years would put you in a position to be a PM or assistant PM on a Fidelity fund. I would imagine this would pay close to 400k? Or at least not "absurdly" less?

nystateofmind you seem to know what your talking about. if you dont think equity research/IM will clear 400k after 7-10 years, what jobs will ???

thanks

CREAM

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

I wish someone had a vault gold membership, all this information is there I believe. My school gives us a crappy watered-down version that doesn't have salary reports or employee opinions.

Guys in commercial banking work less on average than IB and it wouldn't be unreasonable at all to see 200-300 after 7 years. 400 after 10-15 years is probably possible but I don't personally know any senior commercial bankers. Don't know how much of that is done out of NYC either.

Guys out of GS after 2 years into PE are making 400. Are you telling me that people at Fidelity after 10 years are making less than that?

Comparing PE to Fidelity is like comparing apples to oranges. The time frame is irrelevant.

You do realize that anybody making over 100k per year is in the top 1% income bracket in the world and top 2% in the U.S., right?

That can't be true. I was under the impression that the median income in this country is 100k.

have to agree with stern i wish i had a vault gold but my school does not provide and i honestly dont have money to blow at this stage.

with comments about 100k salary being so amazing that might be true in other places, but 100k salary is not getting you anywhere near a decent quality of life in nyc or nyc suburbs. i want the big suburban house, 2 cars, family, etc and a 100k salary def. is not getting me there.

fields like commercial banking are not the type of field i would be interested in.

so besides Investment Management/Equity Research/possibly Commercial Banking, what other fields will be making ballpark 400k after 7-10 years??

thanks
CREAM

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

That's because you live in the Northeast and attend Harvard - your perspective is incredibly sheltered. Try living in Montana where the average salary is about $25,000 a year, and entry-level salary is easily less than half of that (or any of the other 30 states with similar statistics). Average U.S. individual income is about 35k.

agree with B. The average is actually lower than most people think. I went to a public high school in a very suburban neighborhood, and all my friends' parents made between 40-70k.

I don't want to argue with you guys here about income realities I just want to know how to make more money. My dad makes almost 100g/yr and we are struggling to stay middle class in NYC suburbs. I know I need at least double what he is making, preferably 300k-400k.

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

Listen, if you want to make that kind of money, you're either going to have to 1.) Go into a specialized field (i.e. surgeon, lawyer), which requires extensive specialized training (beyond an undergrad degree). 2.) Work in the "traditional" high-paying jobs, such as banking and other finance-related occupations (no, commercial banking and accounting won't cut it) or consulting. 3.) Get extremely lucky as an actor, musician, athlete, entrepreneur, or lottery-winner.

It sounds like you are incapable of doing #1, unwilling to do #2, and unable to dictate whether you will accomplish #3... so, what do you want people to say?

haha i love the blunt knife to the stomach answer.

#1 you're right I cannot afford
#2 i am looking to see what these other "finance related occupations" are. also, if you read what i have written previously, you can see i do not want to do commercial banking or accounting nor did i ever even seriously consider them.
#3 useless input, obvious, etc.

i clearly stated i want the #2 elaborated on. what are these other "finance related occupations"?? is it just banking/equity research/im??? is it just banking?? etc.

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

most jobs do not clear 300-400k after 10 years for the very simple reason that there are almost no jobs outside the mentioned industries where you can expect to see 15% or more pay increases per annum. ive worked at a small public corporation like ~300mm mkt cap(actually in specialty commercial finance), and there the top guys right below the company's owners were pulling in 300k. These are people who are almost 50, have been working for a long time, and are now either divisional presidents or c-level execs.

you are absolutely out of your mind if you think that 100k is the median salary, or that just because fidelity will pay you 80k now that theyre promising to pay you 300-400 in 10 years (and dont get me wrong, if you do well and rise through fidelity and end up running something like the magellan fund, you could make millions every year). this isn't about you, or your performance. the simple fact is that there are very few jobs you can have where you're personally pulling in enough revenue to justify that kind of payout. finance is one of them. so are things like medicine, white-shoe corporate law, or high level strat consultants.

if you want to be sure that youre making 300-400k, suck it up and take the shit that comes with these professions. or start your own business and take the risk that comes with that. but dont expect that you can find an easy way out. the reason most people are not making that kind of money is not because they're just lazy...

Agreed.

There's a reason that less than 2% of the American population is making more than 100k a year - there obviously isn't an overabundance of these high paying jobs. If picking up a six-figured job were that easy, everyone would have one. When you talk about 300k+, you're talking either very-high level corporate or bankers, PE, HF, PM, consultants, etc. There are no "secret" jobs that people don't know about, and every 300k+ job has been previously discussed on this board.

Thanks for the input guys, but don't assume here because I am not extremely gung-ho on IB hours that I am lazy here. How long would it take in Investment Management (obviously this varies with performance) to become a portfolio manager and make good money?? I've heard in that field there is age bias against the young and they want to see some grey hair on you before they start trusting you with the big money and letting you earn big.

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

i wasn't saying you were lazy--rather that there are lots of very hard working people out there, but only so many fields where your hard work translates into the kind of revenue necessary to justify a 300-400k payday.

that being said, i'm not 100% sure about IM so I would take this with a grain of salt--I have also heard similar things about ages in the field. The bigger question to me would seem to be not "how long would it take" but perhaps "would i even get there at all"--there are LOTS of people working at Fidelity, and the jobs in PM are obviously the most sought after. But like I said, I don't really know much about this field, so you'd be better off doing your own research.

thanks for the input. banking seems to be the easiest entrance to any of these fields so i guess its pretty universal that the fast path to high salaries in finance is banking.

CREAM

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

Why don't you all look on monster.com....you can search for the median income at jobs based on where you are in the world. Just put in...like...construction man, 3 yrs experience, zip code 10010 and boom, you'll have a graph of the lowest to hight payrange for that area with the median also showing.

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

Consider moving to another city as well. You mentioned that 100k doesn't really cut it in NY suburbs, so maybe you could check out other cities where the cost of living is significantly lower. In my suburb, you can live very comfortably off 100k. My parents, combined, make around that range. Both my parents drive nice cars (BMW, Benz), both of which are new and bought within the past 3-4 years. We live in a house that's worth ~1 million now and are moving into a newly constructed house that was upwards of that.

My point is, maybe this is nothing to some of you, maybe it's a lot to others--but how well off you are is relative and really depends on how you view things. 100k can still get you a long ways in other states and smaller cities. Banking isn't the only way to living a happy life.

I've decided I want to stay in NYC to be close to my parents (they're sick, etc.) and I want to be around a bit. Is banking the only career that is going to make me enough?

About monster - I thought it was very inaccurate. I remember reading some article on monster about highest paying jobs and it was all medical no finance or banking so I figured it must be trash.

CREAM

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

double post sorry

Anyone attacking the OP in this thread is a douche bag, big time. I understand his rationale here, the thing I hate most about my job is the lack of control over my hours and the massive amount of time I have to spend at the office. From what I've heard, good commercial banking jobs can make you some pretty good dough after 5-7 years. For people to come into this thread and more or less take shots at you for being "lazy" is ludicrous. These people, most likely, have not done a single day in IB or just signed on for an SA stint and think they are hot shit. Don't listen to these fuckin' retards, they have no idea what they are talking about. There are plenty of ways to make money in this world, IB/PE/HF/"insert other masturbatory finance job here" is not the only route. If you work hard, are decently smart and apply yourself, you can make money. Find something that interests you, something you feel you can apply your skills to, and go for it. Don't listen to some idiots on a message board who don't know shit. God damnit.

One summer I was at a mid-sized brokerage firm in NYC. All the younger brokers did all day was cold call. The ones that lasted over 6 months ended up making 100k+ a year, only from commissions, talking people into opening an account with them. There was a 26 year old guy that made 2 million dollars last year doing just that, and a 39 year old guy that had been at it for years that made 1 million last year. So, if you don't have the grades or recruiting opportunities, you could try that if you are really focused on money. Although, it takes a special kind of person to want to work at a place like that.

Interesting input Oblivion. I will def. keep that in mind but I do not know if I could take a commission-makes-all job. I thought brokers were the financial world's dinosaurs but I guess they still pack a punch.

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

bump. any more input?

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

Glad that you're blunt about making money.

But I'm surprised that nobody has commented on how ridiculous your signature is - "Dollar, dollar bill y'all?"

-> By far, one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on this board. Ever. Lol.

seems like someone has never listened to CREAM. what a shame.

any other input ?

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

"By far, one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on this board. Ever. Lol."

What's so ridiculous about it?

I've heard PWM/Private Bank can easily surpass 300-400k within 10 years if you are good at your job. Can anyone substantiate on this a bit more?

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

PWM can easily get to that level in 10 years if you are good at your job. However, you need to be comfortable with the fact that all of your pay is commission. Also, it takes a certain personality type to deal with all the cold callling and rejection in the early years.

With that said, PWM is an ideal job once you are established. After you have built a sizeable book of business, there is no longer a need to cold call/market yourself because most of your new clients will come from referrals. Depending on the client, you will only have to rebalance portfolios every quarter or semi-annually, which means there is not really all that much work involved. Most of the day is spent following the markets and speaking to your clients.

Through returns and clients adding more into their accounts, your AUM tends to grow every year regardless of market cycles. This basically means that you will continue to make more and more money every year.

The average Morgan Stanley financial adviser does about $850,000 in business annually with a 40% payout and certain performance bonuses. Thats about 400k or so. The advisers at Bear Stearns who did over a million in business were given a signing bonus equal to that number by MS, ML, etc to move their book of business over after the company collapsed. The guys who did over $2 million in business were given signing bonuses of 2.5 times their annual business meaning they were given over $5 million to sign on.

Thanks for the great posts lightsout. Any more input on PWM or about any other high earning career of this type???

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all

Those figures from lightsout are either completely wrong, or the distribution is very right-skewed. The MEDIAN Morgan Stanley advisor does not make nearly 400k, he/she makes less than 100k. I know because I've seen the figures from 3 different major market branches. Being an FA is not nearly as easy as it is being made out to be on this board. Most people don't make it past the first 6 months because it is very difficult to build up a book of business unless you are very well-connected. Salaries for FA's are very deceiving, becasue there are a few top earners who make way more money than the rest. I would not count on being a Financial Advisor if you want to make more than 200k, it is very difficult. Also to generate 800k in fees, you need to have around 400 AUM on your books, so just think about getting that many people to give you that much money to manage.

The number for Morgan Stanley advisors was given to me by a Morgan Stanley advisor. I also read it somewhere (I forget where). I am sure it is skewed to the right (take a look at the lead story from Barron's this week). The original post was talking about making 200-400k 10 years out. I am willing to bet that most advisors that have been in the business for 10 years are making that type of money. You are completely right about most not making it through the first 6 months. I believe the attrition rate is about 90% or something ridiculous like that in the first year. I was making assumptions on the fact that someone would have been in the business for 10 years.

Also, your $400M AUM number needed to generate $800k in fees seems too high. Thats a .2% fee. It obviously depends on the client and the account, but .5-1% sounds more like it. A wrap account is what, 1%?

200-400k 10 years in the business is reasonable if you put your time in marketing yourself.

An advisor I know got a 401(k) plan for a small, local business that started with about $1.5M. A few years later, through returns and contributions, the plan has about $15M in it. The advisor's personal take is about.5%, which equates to $75,000 a year just for that one account.

Thats turned me off PWM quite a bit. Any other career input guys??

Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me
C.R.E.A.M.
Get the money
Dollar, dollar bill y'all