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Citigroup Lev Fin
 

madgames's picture
(Orangutan, 316
 
Points)
 on 12/13/06 at 10:04pm

How is the Leveraged Finance group at Citi regarded across the street?
Anyone know?
Thanks!

scotttwibell's picture

Not great

 
Points)
 on 12/13/06 at 10:44pm

They should be good since they have big BS, but they're not highly regarded. Try JPM DB or CS. Much more respected

steady state's picture

You've gotta be kidding,

(Baboon, 141
 
Points)
 on 12/13/06 at 10:52pm

You've gotta be kidding, right? Have you seen their numbers this year? DB and CS aren't in the same universe. By far, JPM, Citi and BofA are the dominant lev fin firms. DB and CS...that's a good one.

rat4100's picture

I'm pretty sure that Citi's

 
Points)
 on 12/13/06 at 11:03pm

I'm pretty sure that Citi's lev fin doesn't do any of the modeling. So no, it's not a good place to be.

GameTheory's picture

True.

PE
(King Kong, 1,435
 
Points)
 on 12/13/06 at 11:07pm

The big B/S banks dominate in sheer volume. But alot of what they do is leveraged corporate lending (and I use the term "leveraged" loosely since alot of these facilities pose very little extra risk to the financial health of the company). Don't get me wrong, these banks have great lev fin groups and still get their hands on some high yield, LBO's, 2nd and 3rd liens, etc. But I can see why someone would say that despite lower volume firms like DB and CS are "more respected" because for example 75% of DB's lev fin activity is sponsor-backed. And at the end of the day, you'd rather be working on a 3bn LBO with sub, 2nd lien, etc. than a 3bn 3.5x secured revolver/TL A for some F500 company.

madgames's picture

Capital Markets

(Orangutan, 316
 
Points)
 on 12/14/06 at 12:27am

If you had a choice to join a group in Citi's Capital Markets program which would you pick. For the best learning experience and exit ops:

Equity Capital Markets:

Equity Syndicate
Equity Origination
Initial Public Offerings (IPOs)
Follow-on Offerings
Equity-Linked Securities (Convertibles)
Corporate Equity Derivatives
Corporate Restructurings (Carve-outs and Spin-offs)
Fixed Income Capital Markets

Asset Backed Finance
Asset Based Finance
Asset Finance Group
Commercial Mortgage Finance
Credit Derivatives
Derivatives Solutions
Export & Agency Finance
Financial Institutions Capital Markets
Global Loans Capital Markets
Global New Products
Global Portfolio Optimization
Global Securitized Markets
Global Structured Credit Products
Global Structured Solutions
Industrial Capital Markets
Infrastructure & Energy Finance
Latin America Capital Markets
Leveraged Finance
Liability Management
Money Markets Origination
Mortgage Finance
Student Loan Finance

alstmdrll's picture

Citigroup's Lev Fin is under

 
Points)
 on 12/14/06 at 1:15am

Citigroup's Lev Fin is under Fixed Income Capital Markets. How is their FSG? Do they do their modeling?

GameTheory's picture

FSG at Citi is called

PE
(King Kong, 1,435
 
Points)
 on 12/14/06 at 9:34am

FSG at Citi is called Financial Entreprenuers (FEG). It's one of the best groups to be in in the IBD, and from what I've heard they do alot of the heavy lifting modeling-wise.

rat4100's picture

Hmm..from what I've been

 
Points)
 on 12/14/06 at 12:44pm

Hmm..from what I've been told, capital markets doesn't have really broad exit opps. But, the upside is that the hours are better than IB (I've heard you get out around 8pm unless you're in lev fin), so staying on to associate is not a bad idea.

I think Corporate Restructurings (Carve-outs and Spin-offs) might be a good choice, assuming it's similar to the restructuring work that I'm thinking of (a la Blackstone etc). I hear restructuring has great exit opps into distessed debt hedge funds.

Infrastructure & Energy Finance is supposed to be really interesting, although I'm not sure about the exit opps. IPOs might be a good choice. I would probably stay away from the securitized products side of fixed income capital markets (asset backed finance, etc.) since I believe that area is pretty narrow.

IPO work should have the worst hours after lev fin.

In reply to GameTheory
ginNtonic's picture

Re: True.

(Gorilla, 562
 
Points)
 on 12/14/06 at 3:45pm
GameTheory:

The big B/S banks dominate in sheer volume. But alot of what they do is leveraged corporate lending (and I use the term "leveraged" loosely since alot of these facilities pose very little extra risk to the financial health of the company). Don't get me wrong, these banks have great lev fin groups and still get their hands on some high yield, LBO's, 2nd and 3rd liens, etc. But I can see why someone would say that despite lower volume firms like DB and CS are "more respected" because for example 75% of DB's lev fin activity is sponsor-backed. And at the end of the day, you'd rather be working on a 3bn LBO with sub, 2nd lien, etc. than a 3bn 3.5x secured revolver/TL A for some F500 company.

You're partially right. Even though Citi, JPM, BAS don't have the % of Sponsor deals or weak double-B credits as a CS or GS, doesn't mean they do any less of those deals (they probably do more). It's just that corporate deals are their bread and butter, and they're going to get every nickel and dime they can get in the market. Look at all the blockbuster deals this year, and all of them have JPM, BAS, or Citi on them.

In reply to ginNtonic
GameTheory's picture

Re: True.

PE
(King Kong, 1,435
 
Points)
 on 12/14/06 at 4:02pm
ginNtonic:

You're partially right. Even though Citi, JPM, BAS don't have the % of Sponsor deals or weak double-B credits as a CS or GS, doesn't mean they do any less of those deals (they probably do more). It's just that corporate deals are their bread and butter, and they're going to get every nickel and dime they can get in the market. Look at all the blockbuster deals this year, and all of them have JPM, BAS, or Citi on them.

I guess that's what I'm saying. Their volume looks higher because when Thomson looks for criteria for "Leveraged Loans" they don't take into account whether or not it's sponsor-led, etc. They have their cutoff and everything past it is "levered." So as you said, corporate deals are their bread and butter so if Citi/JPM/BofA are working on just as many LBO's (you can't make a multi-bn LBO work without those banks, anyways), they're still going to be higher up on the league tables.

BUT the thing is from an analyst/exit opp perspective, you could be an analyst in LF at one of those banks and never really work on highly levered deals or LBO's. I have a friend in SLF at JPM that never really touches LBO's and as a result his exits are somewhat lacking, where as their Sponsors-subgroup in SLF has pretty good exits. But working at DB, since so much of their deals proportionately are sponsor-led, you're more likely to get the experience buyside firms are looking for.

steady state's picture

On the Infra & Energy note

(Baboon, 141
 
Points)
 on 12/14/06 at 6:22pm

On the Infra & Energy note above, there are exit opps in that industry, especially now that those two industries are booming. Some of the biggest up & coming funds out their are infra funds, and I know of an associate going from Citi's IEF group to a large infra PE fund.

Also, as for general exit ops from the product side, the switch to the buyside is not as obvious as it is from an industry group, but there are definitely ops. Since you're a specialist you'll be more likely to get a job in some kind of specialized buyside operation, be it structured finance or a quant fund or a distressed debt fund, and less likely to get into a fund who's bread and butter is pure equity valuation or business operations/management. In general, I think you get more business/strategy exposure in IBD, and more finance/quantitative exposure in cap mkts. Depends on your preference.

In reply to GameTheory
ginNtonic's picture

Re: True.

(Gorilla, 562
 
Points)
 on 12/15/06 at 11:41am
GameTheory:

BUT the thing is from an analyst/exit opp perspective, you could be an analyst in LF at one of those banks and never really work on highly levered deals or LBO's. I have a friend in SLF at JPM that never really touches LBO's and as a result his exits are somewhat lacking, where as their Sponsors-subgroup in SLF has pretty good exits. But working at DB, since so much of their deals proportionately are sponsor-led, you're more likely to get the experience buyside firms are looking for.

With what you said being said and true, I would probably go JPM/BAS LevFin in their sponsor sub-groups, then CS/DB/GS, then Citi/JPM/BAS overall LevFin.

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