Did Cliff Lee REALLY take "less money"?
So, I was thinking about all of these commentators getting happy-in-their-pants about Cliff Lee taking 'less money' to go to Philly instead of NYC. Then I got to thinking about all the threads on here about new analysts in New York having trouble making ends meet due to the high cost of living, high tax rates, etc. So that lead me to this question...Did Cliff Lee actually take less money when you factor in the costs of living in NYC and the taxes that go along with it? 120 mil over 5 years in Philly has to be, at the very least, comparable to 138 Mil in NYC...if some of you Big4 guys could weigh in I would appreciate it.
He may be taking less money, but he is going to put up filthy numbers in the NL. Would you rather face the Sox, Rays, and Orioles or Mets, Braves, and Marlins (with no DH)?
Been saying the exact same thing...
ESPN/ the media is so dumbed down.
it has to be. the avg consumer of ESPN's doesnt have the level of understanding nor really care if 135mil in NYC = 120 TX/Philly/etc...
More fans are truly concerned with how NYY will fare without him, what it has to do with the rivalry between Boston picking up Gonzo and Crawford.
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calcu…
According to this (highly scientific!) to match $120 in Philly you would need $201.
http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofliving/costofliving.html
This one says $206
http://swz.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/layoutscripts/coll_result.asp?…
And there's this too!
Isn't this all contingent on living in Manhattan, 12 mos. a year? I'd imagine many players live in Westchester/Fairfield Counties during the season, and I think Lee lives in Arkansas in the offseason?
Plus you can't put a price on not having to play for the Yankees.
Excellent point, as usual, Peter. I was more so thinking about the tax implications of playing in NY vs. Philly. Obviously Texas would be the ideal situation from a tax perspective but I feel like Philly is a middle ground solution. You can live in a metro area in the Northeast, have a chance at playing on a 'super team' pitching wise and still avoid the 197% tax rate in NY...
1) As a Met fan, fuck this fool with a rusty screw driver...we got D.J. Carrasco...WHATTT?!?!?!
2) People who aren't "NY types" have always hated the idea of living in the city and wouldn't do it for any level of compensation.
3) As a New Yorker, who left...I'm never going back. There's no bonus, no penthouse, no nothin' which could persuade me to do it so... I can definitely understand how a rural Arkansas boy might reason the same way.
4) The Phillies now have the greatest starting rotation (1-4) since the Orioles of the 1960's...arguably ever . I am sure that was a contributing factor in the decision.
5) You guys are nuts if you think that Yankee fans spitting on his wife during the playoffs and calling her a bitch did not have everything to do with this.
The '98 Braves say hello.
Glavine (20-6), Smoltz (17-3), Maddux (18-9), Neagle (16-11), and Millwood (17-8). 3 ERAs below 3.00 It's a shame we lost in the NLCS.
My regards to all of them, but only Smoltz could crack the current Phillies postseason rotation and he'd be battling for the #3 spot at that.
The Padres pwn3d the '98 Braves. Just sayin'.
Big name athletes are taxed for each game they play in in the city they play it. Its called the "jock tax" or something like that. Basically cities/states consider the money earned from visiting players to have been earned in their area and tax it. The returns for professional athletes are total nightmares because of this and therefore I doubt his overall tax burden is going to be massively different in NYC vs Philly.
Ahhhh the Braves of the golden days. 14 straight division titles...that's not happening again.
Don't forget the money Boston is paying him to not play for the Yankees.
Yankee fans - Ready for more Carl Pavano?
Cost of living differential between NYC & Philly is massive at most income levels but loses impact at the 8 figure mark. The excess rent / hotel expenses paid in NYC pale in comparison to the 35M+ he will pay in federal income taxes overthe life of his contract. Philly has a significant city wage tax as well.
This is more of a baseball and family decision.
It's funny how much of a difference the manner in which an athlete "decides" makes. Cliff Lee is taking less money for the chance to pitch in one of the best rotations in history. But instead of getting vilified like LeBron, Lee is celebrated for taking less money in order to be happy. Good for him.
Thats more so because he didn't take his happy ass on TV for a one hour special 12 minutes into which he said 'I'm taking my talents to Philly'
Ya, that's what I was saying, it's funny how much a difference the "decision" makes. If only LBJ could have used Cliff Lee as a role model.
Or just not use his old AAU buddies as his PR team. The guy is worth enough money that he should a) know better b) hire professionals and c) set his buddies up nicely and cut the cord
what mcgee said
happypants...your next post will be your 2010th...aww snap.
I don't think the Yankees will entertain an offer for Pavano. Knowing his record with the Yankees, he'll break both legs while trying to get into a Yankee uniform.
Also, i think Lee would have stayed in somewhere in CT while doing his stint with the Yankees. The endorsements he would have gotten in NY would offset any tax implications or cost of living benefits he would have received playing with Phillies/Rangers.
I really feel bad for the National League East....having to face that rotation almost 20 times in a year =x.
I would've loved if Cliff Lee was still playing for Cleveland this whole entire time and they were the ones in the bidding war instead of the Rangers.
But yes, this is one of the best baseball rotations of all time. I wonder if we can get Tim Lincecum as our fifth starter since we really need to plug that hole too.
Btw, I'll be playing in right field for the Phils in April.
I've been a baseball fan my whole life, practically, but that '98 season had to be the best I've ever witnessed. I was living in San Diego at the time, so I made it to every post-season home game, and each one of them was a bigger party than the last. It was also the only World Series game I've ever been to.
That was a crazy year, with McGwire and Sosa in the home run race, and the best Padres team they've ever managed to field. I had no doubt that Bruce Bochy would produce a World Series champion team in San Francisco when he went there a couple years ago.
1998 Yankees = The Greatest Team of All Time
Not on paper...but in reality.
Mother of tits...I just saw a breakdown of Cliff Lees contract in Philly...they offered him 27.5 mil for the option year compared to the yankee offering him 16.5 for the option year....thats balls tons of cash to throw a ball
Well, they swept my Pads like they were standing still, so no argument here.
As a massive Yankees fan, after letting this soak in and reading a good deal about how the Yankees mgmt was more or less expecting this to happen (and was relieved to an extent), I find myself not nearly as unhappy as I thought I'd be.
Yes, he's been dominant in the last two post-seasons, there is no doubt. But, 7 years is insane for a guy who was almost out of the majors a few years ago. We'd likely be paying that money for a two year window of potential WS dominance, followed by several years of having no hope. We're more flexible now and can continue the smart building we've begun over the last 5 years or so.
Furthermore, we already did the "spend 8 years of cash on 1 WS title" thing in 2009, so I really can't be that upset...we won a WS like 14 months ago, after all.
Also, real talk, if you don't want to be in NYC then there is a damn good chance that you'll get eaten alive by the Post / Daily News and 24x7 attention. Let Cliff and his wifey enjoy Philly - the city of brotherly love (no homo.)
Philly offered him more per year didn't they ? $24M vs $20M from the Yanks.
Problem with ERA+ is that it doesn't get around bat barrels in the postseason as Maddux and Glavine proved by becoming batting practice pitchers every time October rolled around.
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