European Vs American Graduation system
Hello everyone,
I am a new monkey in the business and was wondering what the differences are between America and Europe in post-bachelor education. I have read that bachelor -> Work 2-3y -> MBA, is a very solid and standard way to grow in the industry, but in my surroundings in the Netherlands it is very common to do a Masters right after your bachelor education(with the option of doing an MBA later). I am interested in everyone's opinion on this subject. Is it region bound? Are companies hiring differently in America compared to the Europe? What is your advice?
Thank you in advance!
Europe is more master's focused, with less of an emphasis on MBAs. In the US, Master's programmes are not as highly valued, but MBAs as worth more than their weight in gold (assuming you graduated from a top 20 business school).
But usually London High Finance is more open to hiring undergrads from top targets, and promoting them regardless of further education. The US track often forces analysts in IBD and PE to get an MBA in order to get promoted. Tons of MDs and Partners with only bachelors degrees.
Also, networking is more important in the US, but not as effective in Europe.
And remember, it's relatively easy to break into London IBD from a US university, than it is breaking into USA from a European uni, assuming you have the average requisite credentials in both cases. It's a question of supply and demand.
If networking in London is less effective then how do people generally break into IB/PE/HF? Is applying on company websites actually effective in London or is recruiting done purely through OCR and recruiters?
OCR/ recruiters/ assessment centres play a bigger factor than networking. Also, this is mainly for BBs. For smaller shops, networking still holds weight.
Thank you for the helpful reply. I am currently not in a target University and will most likely not receive a job interview at a BB bank. Would the best plan of approach be to get a Master of finance at Frankfurt school of management or Rotterdam school of management and then use the university career center? What is your opinion on this?
Honestly, I don't know about either school's placement into BB. Though I've heard of the Rotterdam name in banking more. Best option would be to check their placements, either on their websites or via LinkedIn.
I have friends who went to both, and they are both good schools. Frankfurt would be better if you want to work in Germany, while RSM has more recognition internationally. I wish I could help you beyond this but I know little about MFin specifics.
I can definitely say that the same is true in Germany. 2/3 of my year have directly continued with a (2 year) Master degree after finishing their (3 year) Bachelor.
I just wanted to echo this. Furthermore, there are some small and mid cap German PE funds which will only hire undergraduates who have a master's degree
I am also Dutch and from a non-target. I finished my Bachelor's last year, am currently on a gap year doing IB/PE internships and will resume my studies with a Master's at a top 5 EU school next Summer. Feel free to pm me if you have any specific Qs regarding internships/Master's/breaking in (although I by no means claim to be an expert).
Europe needs to be split UK vs Continental Europe because there are major differences between the two. (The below is my personal opinion based on my UK and European experience)
1) In general, in Continental Europe people complete the bachelor's degree and directly proceed to a two-year Master's Programme. In many of the countries in Continental Europe this is considered as a standard education and employers would not even consider you as a candidate without at least working towards a Master's Degree. These candidates enter the business at an entry level position.
2) In the UK, it's rather the bachelor's degree that is considered as a standard degree and people usually get great entry level jobs (strategy consulting / IBD etc.) straight after undergrad without a need to ever complete additional degree. IBD in London rarely requires from you to complete a further degree to advance. Master's degree is usually used by people who want to break into the UK market after completing bachelor's degree in their home countries or people who didn't get around to getting a good job after bachelor's (sorry :p)
3) From my experience, as a person who graduated with a bachelor's degree in the UK, worked in the City and then moved to Continental Europe, a bachelor's degree from a respectable UK university is actually sufficient to work in consulting or IBD in Continental Europe, even if most of your local colleagues would have Master's or even PhDs. A bachelor's graduate from the UK and a local Master's graduate would usually come in at the same entry level position (if starting straight after Uni).
4) MBA in Europe is mostly popular in consulting or among more experienced execs. In Continental Europe it doesn't carry such recognition in the market to allow you to drastically change the path of your career (e.g. Neurosurgeon>MBA>IBD Associate wouldn't be a very common path), a little bit more so in the UK but not as much as in the US.
5) As for the job applications at the entry level, in the UK most of the recruitment (incl. BB and MBB) actually happens via website applications and it is a fairly standardised process where networking has little effect . Whilst in the UK your university pedigree still matters, in Continental Europe many universities (within their own countries) are considered on par and it has little difference whether you graduted say from Frankfurt or Manheim business schools. It's rather the job experience acquired over 5 years of education (3 for bachelor's and 2 for masters) that allows you to stand out.
This is accurate. In addition, from my experience as a graduate from a top UK school, a significant number of international students (especially from continental Europe) studying in the UK pursue the BSc -> MSc route prior to returning to their home countries even though, as you mentioned, a BSc from UK carries sufficient weight to break into IBD/Consulting in Europe.
Thank you for the helpful information. I was potentially considering a master in the Uk, but if the brexit makes banks reallocate to germany of the Netherlands, wouldn't a master from a university in that area be more benficial? Furthermore why is the UK so different in this system? I am interested in working in london after graduating.
If anything Brexit would make the UK even more inward focused because a) the immigration policies will most likely make it harder to move to the UK b) if the jobs actually do move, there will be fewer spots to compete for.
Would a masters from Netherlands or Germany be more beneficial? If you want to move the UK - no, it wouldn't. Your best chances of securing a job in the UK, especially given the current political climate, are and in my opinion in the forseeable future will still be, is to study in the UK, whether for bachelor's or masters degree.
That said, I still think that getting a job in IBD in London after RSM or Frankfurt is possible, however it will be harder and you will have to have a stron proof of trackrecord (e.g. summer internship in Goldman in Frankfurt during your Masters) to stand out from other candidates. There are a lot of people in IBD in London from Bocconi or top French Uni's, however in most cases they had prior experience before they made the move.
I can confirm the above, especially that in France and Germany almost everyone gets their MSc. before going into the industry. Nonetheless, I know of people who joined BBs in Frankfurt directly after their BSc. (top schools), so it is not absolutely necessary if you want to go for IBD.
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