Philosophy
(Senior Baboon, 192
Points)
on 1/10/13 at 4:04am
Is Philosphy look highly upon by recruiters in equity research and hedge funds?
Philosophy is no doubt the quintessential humanities major and it can really train one to think extremely critically. Thus it seems like an easily transferable skill to ER or HF. However what may seems to be true may not be.(IB not really doing investment)
Thanks!
Also, if i do a double major in economics, would it put me in a better position?
I don't think Economics would
I don't think Economics would give you much of a boost. A math or finance degree would highlight the quant skills being sought. More important will be your extra-curriculars (clubs, internships). And please don't put the word "quintessential" on your resume ;)
OP; I'm just saying this out
OP; I'm just saying this out of my own observations, but the classics such as philosophy, etc. seem to be more acceptable in places such as the UK and Europe. Not sure how they fair here, but I worked with a kid over the summer from Edinburgh U and he said most kids in finance industry started in classics (not sure how true that actually is)
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
streetwannabe: OP; I'm just
OP; I'm just saying this out of my own observations, but the classics such as philosophy, etc. seem to be more acceptable in places such as the UK and Europe. Not sure how they fair here, but I worked with a kid over the summer from Edinburgh U and he said most kids in finance industry started in classics (not sure how true that actually is)
A thorough study in classics gives one a solid foundation in both analytical and verbal skills. In particular, a course in Latin language is a very rigorous process, the study of which resembles more math and physics than modern languages. I remember when I took Latin in my freshman year of college (wish I studied it sooner!) the students pursuing in STEM on average performed better than the humanities students.
A friend of mine who excelled in Latin was a physics student who went on to get his PhD in Astrophysics from Princeton. (He then switched course and joined a seminary to become Jesuit priest, odd change of course but maybe he found God while looking through telescopes?)
Re OP's point, it depends which courses in philosophy. I doubt recruiters would be impressed by courses in Derrida or Foucault but if you took the more rigorous courses like analytical philosophy (Frege, Russel, Wittgenstein)formal logic, metalogic, set theory etc. then you can make a case that you have enough mental power to handle quantitative works in finance.
The most rigorous, proof theoretic course I took back in college was actually a philosophy course. The proofs we were asked to do for that course were much longer than the ones I did in my math classes like real and complex analysis.
...well, he's no use to us if Detroit is his idea of a small town!
imcguire: I don't think
I don't think Economics would give you much of a boost. A math or finance degree would highlight the quant skills being sought. More important will be your extra-curriculars (clubs, internships). And please don't put the word "quintessential" on your resume ;)
Yes but isnt it also true that quant skills can be acquired(e.g. cfa, msf), but that isnt totally case for critical thinking. Granted yes, critical thinking is a skill that can be acquired over time, but the key word is over time. Logic doesnt seems to be the norm these day in investing, but rather algorithms, That doesnt make sense.
JasonLoh: imcguire: I don't
I don't think Economics would give you much of a boost. A math or finance degree would highlight the quant skills being sought. More important will be your extra-curriculars (clubs, internships). And please don't put the word "quintessential" on your resume ;)
Yes but isnt it also true that quant skills can be acquired(e.g. cfa, msf), but that isnt totally case for critical thinking. Granted yes, critical thinking is a skill that can be acquired over time, but the key word is over time. Logic doesnt seems to be the norm these day in investing, but rather algorithms, That doesnt make sense.
MSF takes awhile to get and I don't think CFA will really compel you to learn much in the way of real quant analytics. I am a finance major and let me say that the best course you can take in my opinion would be financial/industrial engineering (IE is usually 5 yr program) or pure mathematics. I am taking calc II next semester and wish I had time to take more because looking at half of the hedgefund jobs on boards require a lot of programming and stuff that I don't have.
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
brandon st
OP; I'm just saying this out of my own observations, but the classics such as philosophy, etc. seem to be more acceptable in places such as the UK and Europe. Not sure how they fair here, but I worked with a kid over the summer from Edinburgh U and he said most kids in finance industry started in classics (not sure how true that actually is)
A thorough study in classics gives one a solid foundation in both analytical and verbal skills. In particular, a course in Latin language is a very rigorous process, the study of which resembles more math and physics than modern languages. I remember when I took Latin in my freshman year of college (wish I studied it sooner!) the students pursuing in STEM on average performed better than the humanities students.
Re OP's point, it depends which courses in philosophy. I doubt recruiters would be impressed by courses in Derrida or Foucault but if you took the more rigorous courses like analytical philosophy (Frege, Russel, Wittgenstein)formal logic, metalogic, set theory etc. then you can make a case that you have enough mental power to handle quantitative works in finance.
The most rigorous, proof theoretic course I took back in college was actually a philosophy course. The proofs we were asked to do for that course were much longer than the ones I did in my math classes like real and complex analysis.
Ah that make sense! Thanks! So what you are basically say is that take up courses that will better bolster my the thinking function and use that as a case in point. Right?
Also, would recruiters even call me up for an interview when it is seen that I am a philosophy major?
streetwannabe: JasonLoh:
I don't think Economics would give you much of a boost. A math or finance degree would highlight the quant skills being sought. More important will be your extra-curriculars (clubs, internships). And please don't put the word "quintessential" on your resume ;)
Yes but isnt it also true that quant skills can be acquired(e.g. cfa, msf), but that isnt totally case for critical thinking. Granted yes, critical thinking is a skill that can be acquired over time, but the key word is over time. Logic doesnt seems to be the norm these day in investing, but rather algorithms, That doesnt make sense.
MSF takes awhile to get and I don't think CFA will really compel you to learn much in the way of real quant analytics. I am a finance major and let me say that the best course you can take in my opinion would be financial/industrial engineering (IE is usually 5 yr program) or pure mathematics. I am taking calc II next semester and wish I had time to take more because looking at half of the hedgefund jobs on boards require a lot of programming and stuff that I don't have.
Wow, I didnt know that. But is that for USA or UK? Because living in the UK, masters programs are usually 1 year.
Also. let me reiterate, I may have not phrase it correctly. What I am saying is that I don't understand how programming can be used in investing. Yes, I agree that there are certain patterns in the markets that rhymes, but that is it! it only rhymes! It will never be the same and that could have drastic effect on one's portfolio. Remember LTCM?
Seems that it replaces common sense with numbers, and that can often lead to disasters. And even if the notion that programming can be profitable, I am noticing a huge jump in its usage. Could it be possible that it will fall into its own weight, the same way the turtles trader did?
JasonLoh: streetwannabe:
I don't think Economics would give you much of a boost. A math or finance degree would highlight the quant skills being sought. More important will be your extra-curriculars (clubs, internships). And please don't put the word "quintessential" on your resume ;)
Yes but isnt it also true that quant skills can be acquired(e.g. cfa, msf), but that isnt totally case for critical thinking. Granted yes, critical thinking is a skill that can be acquired over time, but the key word is over time. Logic doesnt seems to be the norm these day in investing, but rather algorithms, That doesnt make sense.
MSF takes awhile to get and I don't think CFA will really compel you to learn much in the way of real quant analytics. I am a finance major and let me say that the best course you can take in my opinion would be financial/industrial engineering (IE is usually 5 yr program) or pure mathematics. I am taking calc II next semester and wish I had time to take more because looking at half of the hedgefund jobs on boards require a lot of programming and stuff that I don't have.
Wow, I didnt know that. But is that for USA or UK? Because living in the UK, masters programs are usually 1 year.
Also. let me reiterate, I may have not phrase it correctly. What I am saying is that I don't understand how programming can be used in investing. Yes, I agree that there are certain patterns in the markets that rhymes, but that is it! it only rhymes! It will never be the same and that could have drastic effect on one's portfolio. Remember LTCM?
Seems that it replaces common sense with numbers, and that can often lead to disasters. And even if the notion that programming can be profitable, I am noticing a huge jump in its usage. Could it be possible that it will fall into its own weight, the same way the turtles trader did?
Haha, well 1 year is a lot of time to me (compared to the opportunity cost of just getting a quant related degree in undergrad and actually working during that time).
And in regards to programming, I'm not too sure either! Haven't ever done much, but from what I understand, it is used to sort and organize/identify trends or relations that are pertinent to the fund's overall strategy. Programming can also save you a lot of time doing redundant searches and organizing info.
E.g. at my previous job we had to sort trade claims for a bankruptcy case which allowed us to identify and cross reference clients who had already traded their claims and thos that hadn't. I tried (unsuccessfully) to create a macro to sort the stuff (over 6000 people with contacts, claimer/claimee, legal mumbo jumbo). However, bottom line is that math, algos, and programming are very useful.
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
JasonLoh: Is Philosphy look
Is Philosphy look highly upon by recruiters in equity research and hedge funds?
Philosophy is no doubt the quintessential humanities major and it can really train one to think extremely critically. Thus it seems like an easily transferable skill to ER or HF. However what may seems to be true may not be.(IB not really doing investment)
Thanks!
Also, if i do a double major in economics, would it put me in a better position?
Higher level math courses (especially anything pure) foster more critical thinking than what you'd consider "quant" skills. Additionally, why doesn't investment based on algorithms make sense? It's a way of implementing pattern recognition in a rather "nice" fashion.
(For the sake of noting bias, I am a pure math + economics major).
[quote=brandon st
[quote=brandon st randy]
The most rigorous, proof theoretic course I took back in college was actually a philosophy course. The proofs we were asked to do for that course were much longer than the ones I did in my math classes like real and complex analysis.
Wait, actually? That's rather interesting/something I wouldn't expect someone to hear. Well, complex is kinda pretty so maybe there, but real is just a gross mess...
[quote=canas15] brandon st
[quote=canas15]
The most rigorous, proof theoretic course I took back in college was actually a philosophy course. The proofs we were asked to do for that course were much longer than the ones I did in my math classes like real and complex analysis.
Wait, actually? That's rather interesting/something I wouldn't expect someone to hear. Well, complex is kinda pretty so maybe there, but real is just a gross mess...
Well try proving the first portion of Godel's incompleteness theorem...it takes about 30 pages including development of primitive recursive functions...
Real analysis is HARD. But the proofs we were asked to do were much shorter.
...well, he's no use to us if Detroit is his idea of a small town!
imcguire: I don't think
I don't think Economics would give you much of a boost. A math or finance degree would highlight the quant skills being sought. More important will be your extra-curriculars (clubs, internships). And please don't put the word "quintessential" on your resume ;)
With regards to economics it depends on the school. If the OP goes to a lib arts school, then they probably don't offer finance, but the econ is probably heavily quantitative. I know my econ degree had more intensive math than most finance degrees. It was basically an applied math degree.
I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.
[quote=brandon st
[quote=brandon st randy]
The most rigorous, proof theoretic course I took back in college was actually a philosophy course. The proofs we were asked to do for that course were much longer than the ones I did in my math classes like real and complex analysis.
Wait, actually? That's rather interesting/something I wouldn't expect someone to hear. Well, complex is kinda pretty so maybe there, but real is just a gross mess...
Well try proving the first portion of Godel's incompleteness theorem...it takes about 30 pages including development of primitive recursive functions...
Real analysis is HARD. But the proofs we were asked to do were much shorter.
Oh geez. You meant THAT level of sadness. I guess my question was really less of a "does philosophy gets hard at some level" and more of a "is that level actually seen by undergrad students?". I guess that's a major yes, cool to know!
[quote=canas15] brandon st
[quote=canas15]
The most rigorous, proof theoretic course I took back in college was actually a philosophy course. The proofs we were asked to do for that course were much longer than the ones I did in my math classes like real and complex analysis.
Wait, actually? That's rather interesting/something I wouldn't expect someone to hear. Well, complex is kinda pretty so maybe there, but real is just a gross mess...
Well try proving the first portion of Godel's incompleteness theorem...it takes about 30 pages including development of primitive recursive functions...
Real analysis is HARD. But the proofs we were asked to do were much shorter.
Oh geez. You meant THAT level of sadness. I guess my question was really less of a "does philosophy gets hard at some level" and more of a "is that level actually seen by undergrad students?". I guess that's a major yes, cool to know!
It was a graduate level class, cross-listed for undergrads.
...well, he's no use to us if Detroit is his idea of a small town!
[quote=brandon st
[quote=brandon st randy]
The most rigorous, proof theoretic course I took back in college was actually a philosophy course. The proofs we were asked to do for that course were much longer than the ones I did in my math classes like real and complex analysis.
Wait, actually? That's rather interesting/something I wouldn't expect someone to hear. Well, complex is kinda pretty so maybe there, but real is just a gross mess...
Well try proving the first portion of Godel's incompleteness theorem...it takes about 30 pages including development of primitive recursive functions...
Real analysis is HARD. But the proofs we were asked to do were much shorter.
Oh geez. You meant THAT level of sadness. I guess my question was really less of a "does philosophy gets hard at some level" and more of a "is that level actually seen by undergrad students?". I guess that's a major yes, cool to know!
It was a graduate level class, cross-listed for undergrads.
Gotcha, and that's pretty equivalent with complex and real, so it seems a fair comparison. Interesting to see someone in finance with that kinda background; if you don't mind my asking, what do you do?
canas15 i love you for asking
Yea same..wow that is quite
I think you should double up
"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." - IlliniProgrammer
streetwannabe: OP; I'm just
ArJayBee: streetwannabe: OP
To be fair.. PPE isnt really
Don't know who you are
JasonLoh: ArJayBee: stree
Man, college in the UK and
"That dude is so haole, he don't even have any breath left."
I met a kid in a logic class
This thread is honestly
AQM: This thread is honestly
clungeandman: AQM: This
AQM: clungeandman: AQM: T
I believe Soros was studying
Well I've only been on the