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Wall Street Oasis » Forums » I-Banking Bullpen
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The Moral Hazard in Transcript Faking!
 

N96k2q2NVy's picture
N96k2q2NVy
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 85
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 6:44am

Hi,

it seems to me that many people falsify their transcripts replacing bad grades with slightly better ones...

I know of several people who have done this and then ended up with an offer!

My grades are not terrible but I defiantly dont have a GPA of 3.6 :)

I would never send someone a fake transcript - its just morally incorrect to take away someones offer just because he is being honest about his grades!

But the problem is, that my grades even though they are not terrible, seem to the recruiter as much worse then they actually are (because I am compared to all the others).

Why is it so easy to falsify ones Transcript?
Do non of the banks actually check them?
Or is the percentage checked just so small that many people just take the chance.

Or is it because SA are not that important and it is just not worth it.

Compared to the percentage of people changing their transcript I have not heard of many actually getting busted!!!

Thanks

  • transcript
  • #job
  • #analystproblems
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pu2011's picture

You can always inform the

pu2011
      IB
 
(Monkey, 52
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 7:08am

You can always inform the banks, or blackmail the guys.

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In reply to pu2011
N96k2q2NVy's picture

pu2011: You can always inform

N96k2q2NVy
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 85
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 7:20am
pu2011:

You can always inform the banks, or blackmail the guys.

Would never do that - only if it is something really really serious

Not my style!!!

But what does happen when they find out?

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Winning Squared's picture

I don't think this is as

Winning Squared
      IB
 
(Senior Monkey, 86
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 9:11am

I don't think this is as common as you say. Maybe lying on a resume but not changing a transcript. This carries significant consequences. If a bank were to find out, the person would most likely be immediately let go and probably be blackballed from the industry. The school would also likely be informed as it involves falsifying school documents. The punishment there would vary by institution but being kicked out of school is not out of the question.

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Febreeze's picture

OP why are you so concerned

Febreeze
     
 
(King Kong, 1,158
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 10:21am

OP why are you so concerned with what other people are doing? If you are a decent candidate, you'll get your chance. If not, that's on you.

It's their risk to take, not yours.

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Lambie's picture

Don't lie on your transcript,

Lambie
      EN
 
(Gorilla, 536
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 10:22am

Don't lie on your transcript, it can only go bad for you. If you get accepted into a bank with your current stats, then they think you have potential, and you won't have to look over your shoulder every day. If you get accepted into a job with a fake transcipt, it will nag in the back of your head that you're not good enough and you'll consistently be worrying when they will find out. It will eat you away.

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ixjunitxi's picture

Clearly probing for answers.

ixjunitxi
      HF
 
(Orangutan, 274
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 10:25am

Clearly probing for answers. I dont even know why this is up for discussion. I have never heard of such a thing, esp in the hopes of getting a job offer.

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In reply to Winning Squared
Black Jack's picture

Winning Squared: I don't

Black Jack
      IB
 
(King Kong, 1,180
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 10:27am
Winning Squared:

I don't think this is as common as you say. Maybe lying on a resume but not changing a transcript. This carries significant consequences. If a bank were to find out, the person would most likely be immediately let go and probably be blackballed from the industry. The school would also likely be informed as it involves falsifying school documents. The punishment there would vary by institution but being kicked out of school is not out of the question.

This

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Champs46's picture

Lying on your resume may get

Champs46
     
 
(Senior Baboon, 210
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 10:48am

Lying on your resume may get you an interview, but if you get through the entire process and end up signing the offer the bank will almost always request a copy of the transcript and check it against your other information. As Wining Squared mentioned, you could be up shit creek at that point.

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CaR's picture

Am I the only one who's never

CaR
      O
 
 
(Gorilla, 687
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 11:58am

Am I the only one who's never been asked for a transcript? VC internship and my current job and GPA/classes were never discussed past the first, maybe second interview.

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N96k2q2NVy's picture

I dont know what the policy

N96k2q2NVy
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 85
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 12:40pm

I dont know what the policy in the US is but in Germany,

the company is not allowed to request the transcript from the University (also not with some signed doc.)

The only way for them to get an >>oficial<< transcript is of you tell the Uni. to send one to the employer.

What people now do is take their chances and if the employer asks for an official transcript they will just withdraw their application...

I have done 3 internships and never been asked for an official transcript!

Its a fucked up system which almost encourages lying :(

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wso_user's picture

Don't think that's what moral

wso_user
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 77
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 2:15pm

Don't think that's what moral hazard means

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matt's picture

N96k2q2NVy: it seems to me

matt
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 94
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 2:50pm
N96k2q2NVy:

it seems to me that many people falsify their transcripts replacing bad grades with slightly better ones...
I know of several people who have done this and then ended up with an offer!

Who the hell are you hanging out with? On a separate note, in the U.S. nobody but YOU can get a copy of the transcript from the school. None. Zero. You only. I've seen firms ask for transcripts (and SAT's, ACT's, GMAT, etc) but then just ask you verbally and never check the paper record. That said, do not falsify/lie.

There are WAY too many ways where you could be found out. For example, what if a student paper quoted you as saying you had xx gpa or got xx grade in a specific class, and someone at your firm found out and that raised suspicions about you? What will you do if - after you've been gainfully employed for xx months and stopped keeping up your network and info about other avail jobs - then the firm asks for a copy of your resume. Most states employment is at will, meaning they can fire you for a reason as dumb as the color of your shirt. They demand a sealed copy of the resume mailed directly from the registrar and if not provided they will fire you (its legal, you'd have to contact the school and grant permission and prob sent over a signature authorization...but trust me this is possible). Same thing for being an experienced hire. What are you going to do if - in the final round of interviews - they ask what your most recent pay is. You lie, thinking they'll base new pay off of the old. Then what happens if they make an offer and conditional upon that offer is you submitting your W-2 tax form?

There's a lot of stuff you can get away with at jobs, but lying is certainly one of the more looked down upon. Some even have a zero tolerance policy and you'd be walked to the door. Even if they didn't EVER catch you and you pulled off a 40yr career, you know every.single.day. you walk into the office you'd be looking over your shoulder.

Want some good advice? Don't lie/falsify and if you have to lie about something don't do it for one of the most heavily documented/recorded things in the world (payroll, transcript, standardized test grades, etc). You're just asking for trouble if you do.

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In reply to wso_user
N96k2q2NVy's picture

wso_user: Don't think that's

N96k2q2NVy
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 85
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 4:28pm
wso_user:

Don't think that's what moral hazard means

a moral hazard is a situation where a party will have a tendency to take risks because the costs that could incur will not be felt by the party taking the risk. In other words, it is a tendency to be more willing to take a risk, knowing that the potential costs or burdens of taking such risk will be borne, in whole or in part, by others.

from wikipedia

seems to fit! People change their grades cost felt by them if caught and if not by all the other applicants.

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N96k2q2NVy's picture

Just want to quote myself

N96k2q2NVy
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 85
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 4:29pm

Just want to quote myself here because some people think I want to falsify my record:

I would never send someone a fake transcript - its just morally incorrect to take away someones offer just because he is being honest about his grades!

I DO NOT!

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In reply to N96k2q2NVy
Febreeze's picture

N96k2q2NVy: Just want to

Febreeze
     
 
(King Kong, 1,158
 
Points)
 on 1/2/13 at 5:46pm
N96k2q2NVy:

Just want to quote myself here because some people think I want to falsify my record:

I would never send someone a fake transcript - its just morally incorrect to take away someones offer just because he is being honest about his grades!

I DO NOT!

let's say you got a 3.3 and you bump it up to a 3.8, their cutoff is 3.5 - if the guy has anything less than a 3.5, then he wasn't getting in anyway, if he's got something more but you still beat him out of a job then that means he wasn't gonna get it anyway.................now shut the fuck up and network.

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    Being a Short Male
  • <b>For many of us in United States, the TI-83 Plus is the quintessential (pre-college) calculator</b>. It was required for many classes (e.g. AP Calculus) and the $100+ price tag 10+ years ago did not do wonders for the wallet. Still, the multi-line interface, matrix operation...
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  • We all have them. The friends that think everything is going to be okay, just because they went to a top 50 business school and have have a GPA above a 3.5. They will say things like "Employers aren't going to expect me to have relevant work experience. I have't even graduated...
    What Happens to Finance Grads That Don't Have Internships?
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<em>Mod note: make sure to see the great comment below by CompBanker</em> I come from a small town where nobody had ever heard of consulting or IB. I was fortunate enough to attend a top target college (a good Ivy) and land a gig in IB at a BB/EB. I'm starting full time this...
Finance Culture - Personalities
<strong>Background</strong> I randomly discovered WSO nearly seven years ago just weeks after I secured a FT MM IB position. The website was extremely nascent at the time with only a few thousand registered users. The majority of the users were college students with only a handful...
How WSO has enhanced my IB/PE career
<em>Mod note: for the tl;dr version, skip down to "Circa 1960"</em> First, some background. I’m going to explain how we got to where we are today in order to frame our place in history and our model of life, so bear with me...
Your Model of Life Is Wrong
After over one year in the making, the <strong><a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/2013-wso-compensation-report-full">2013 WSO Compensation Report</a></strong> is here! Access to the FULL 108 page 2013 WSO Compensation Report is <strong>100%...
2013 WSO Compensation Report has Arrived
Where do i even start..I learned so much from this forum. The brutally honest opinions, sincere willingness to help, the technical information and random tips on everything has been absolutely crucial for me landing this offer. Coming from a non-target I didnt get that 3rd year SA position at...
Thank you WSO! Got my FT Offer! ADVICE NEEDED
When I first started as a PE analyst, I constantly struggled with judging the amount of time I should spend on reviewing sourced deals. How much time is enough to really get a handle on the company’s revenue streams? How granular do I need my analysis to be on industry threats? With this...
Misguided Efforts: A Cautionary Tale
Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO is Looking for Campus Reps For Summer/Fall 2013 (and beyond)
<a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/basic-guide-ramping-up-on-a-company-with-public-information-part-1-of-3 ">In part one</a> we covered the basics of understanding a company, which involves reading the S-1 filing, reading the quarterly reports and understanding...
Basic Guide Ramping Up On A Company With Public Information (Part 3 of 3)
Any Asset Management people here who could give me some insights on it, such as the nature of the work, the pay, the hours, the potential for career advancement, ect? I was looking into IB before but I've decided that I would rather pursue a career that's more intellectually...
Asset Management a better choice than Investment Banking?
<img src="//img.pandawhale.com/48721-Sexually-Oblivious-Female-Meme-Ze2w.png" alt="Sexually Oblivious Female Meme - Favorite Position? I would like to be a CEO.">
If you could be the richest person in the world with your dream job only as a public virgin forever would you do it?
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