Undergrad: Nova, Indiana, or Michigan?
So I am trying to decide between the following 3 schools, i know that none are major targets but what would give me the best shot at an investment banking job.
1) Indiana University- sounds like there is a decent shot at ib with the investment banking workshop. And it is 18k cheaper per year than the other schools
2) Villanova University - whenever i visited they mentioned some banks coming to campus and a pretty good alumni network on wall street
3) Michigan- Not a preferred admit, and would have to apply after freshman year (sort of a risk). I know that Michigan is my best shot at ibanking but is it worth the risk of not getting in after my freshman year? whereas I'm in the business school at the other two.
So basically, given the scenario, what school would you pick?
I think all three with a little networking can get it done. I go to Villanova as a graduate student, but I know a ton of UG's who are getting MMKT and BB IB/S&T/AM spots.
Michigan is probably your best bet. Villanova Kelly
Saving 18K at Kelly is a big thing though,
if your determined to get into IB you should do well starting your freshmen year which means you'll probably get into Ross... come sophomore year.
What is villanova?
I'm assuming that you are asking if you get into villanova business school as a freshman or sophomore? Well it is direct admissions the freshman year just like Kelley.
And is michigan worth the risk/18k more than indiana, compared to kelley? is it that much better?
Agree with Anthony. Go to Michigan and do really well Freshmen year so you don't have to worry. Villanova has a very good alumni base on the street, not Wharton or Harvard, but very good and probably one the strongest outside of the targets schools.
I disagree about Kelly. I think the 18K isnt worth it. Michigan might be a target, but Nova is a 2 hour bus ride from NYC (faster with Amtrak) and has a strong alumni base. Your decision is with those two schools.
I'd go:
Ross Michigan Engineering Kelley Nova
Kelly's IB work shop has 99% placement rate (according to their website). I have a couple buddies at Michigan & they all bitch about how hard it is. My buddy who's a goalie on the lacrosse team there has been busting his ass for two years to try to get into Ross. He said the pre-rec econ classes have a brutal curve; and the pre biz track washes kids out left and right. Don't know much about Nova cept they have dirty bball and lacrosse.
Honestly I would go with Indiana. You'll come out with a 72k less debt, and if you get on it from day one, you'll be just as well positioned to land a job as anyone at the other two. There are a lot of Hoosier midwestern guidos who go to Indiana, but I've heard some of their parties are insane, and some not bad looking tail either. IHMO.
Michigan I'd have killed to have that option to go there last year Ross or not. Just do well freshman year and transfer to Ross like others have said.
went to nova for a sports match up during undergrad...
some kids on their team who were from the bschool claim they're one of the top bschools in the nation - i tried my best to not laugh...
i have yet to meet a nova grad in ibd...
then again, it could just be me.
Nova is a good UG Bschool, but I think the Business Week rankings are going to their heads. I think it is fair to say that they are a top 25-30 school for business (UG) in the nation. I say this because they were 10th last year and around 20th this year in the Business Week ratings. Yes, I know those are BS rankings and a lot of top schools don't have UG business majors, thats why I said top 25-30.
I can attest that the school has solid placement and recruiting for the UG's. Goldman used to take a couple kids each year. Recruiting was a lot more robust before the crisis as I am sure it was everywhere. A lot of middle market firms do OCR and alumni networking helps place kids at BB's. You do a little networking at Villanova and you can get interviews at all the big banks without a doubt.
I go to nova and am obviously looking to get into IB. It's definitely possible, one of my friends is doing ML levfin SA and had a bunch of other BB and, a few boutique, offers. Still, I don't know many other juniors or seniors so I don't know how common that is here.
If your willing to work hard and network chose where you most want to be. If I'm successful in getting a solid BB offer than I can tell you this, I'll be laughing at all those who went to Wharton bc I know for a fact I enjoy my life much better than my best friend does at Wharton (he actually does go there). It might be harder to get an offer but its worth the lifestyle.
Michigan and Nova are completely different schools. Its easier to get into parties as a freshman at Michigan but if you join one of the right frats at nova your parties will be just as fun. IMO more fun because the girls are slammin.
PM me if you have any questions.
Dude
you have the opportunity to go to Michigan, which, not only is a big target school for IB, but is also one of the most recognized universities in the world. Indiana and Villanova don't have 1/10th of the name cachet Michigan has globally. You go to Europe, Asia, etc. and say you went to Michigan, people will automatically know you attended a quality school. You say you went to Villanova or Indiana, well, a lot of people will give you blank stares. Having Michigan on your resume is going to open a lot more doors for you on a global basis down the line, be it for working domestically, working abroad, getting an MBA or going to law school.
I agree 100%. I go to Michigan and I'm a Sociology major, but I have worked in Wealth Management and have interviewed at IBs. Michigan is all that is important, even if you don't get into Ross. However to do so, you just need to do well in English 125, Econ 101, and Math 115 (Calculus I). Take a few extra-curriculars and volunteer at some shit and you're good to go.
Also, you can apply to Ross and if you don't get in, you can apply again. A degree from UofM blows Indiana and Nova out of the water. Just check any Rankings site.
Lets qualify this, we are talking about U Michigan Ann Arbor, not the satellites.
1) If people overseas know of U Michigan it is because of Ross. You go to Ross you are golden, you don't and you will have to explain to every foreign person that Mich is a lot bigger than just Ross.
2) U of M Ross does blow Indiana or Villanova out of the water, but a general Mich degree isn't anything profound.
3) Rankings are great, but highly regional. U Mich is higher ranked than UT Austin or Emory, but if you want to work in the south those other schools will help a lot more. I would say that Mich has a strong midwest presence as well as in NYC, but so do a lot of schools.
Bottom line, when someone says Mich to me I think of Wolverines, Hoosiers for Indiana and Wildcats for Villanova.
duh...it would really be insulting to IU and Villanova if this guy was undecided between those two and U Michigan-Flint.
not really, U Michigan is known all over the world for its entire u-grad and also its world class graduate programs and research. Look at Times Higher Education and ARWU Rankings and it's 18th and 21st worldwide, respectively. It's one of the most visible universities out there.
Michigan is pretty easy to get into. Look at the student stats, they are not too impressive. I would choose michigan easily over the other two. The invariant probability of you landing a SA from Villanova is 0.
I know a dozen UG kids with FO SA positions at a variety of BB banks this summer.
it really isn't
people on this site really have distorted ideas about these kinds of things, i guess it makes sense since the demographic here is skewed towards top 15 schools. but i think you all need a big reality check.
like people saying a 29 ACT isn't impressive- it's like a 94 percentile score, cmon people! most people taking the ACT can't even sniff a 20.
disclaimer- I only attended a top 20 school...
Yea I didn't mean to say nova was equal to Michigan. Yet, I had the opportunity to go to either and I chose nova bc I liked it more. I didn't even know what IB was when applying to schools and now am happy that I didn't bc I made the right decision for me. Like I said, if your truly motivated to work hard and network go to whichever one you would like to be at for four years. If all you care about is the best recruiting for IB than go to Michigan and get into Ross.
Indiana saves you $72k, which is about $100k of pretax earnings, adjusted for inflation and interest that's a substantial sum. You can make it from there.
Ross is on par with most iv league schools in terms of recruiting. Bain and Mckinsey take 3 to 4 students each year which is unheard of for a public school. Go with Umich, trust me on this one.
Provided you're scrappy enough
You really can't go wrong with Michigan (top ranked) or Indiana (Kelley, specialized program). I have family at Kelley and the program is very strong. Kelley places well at banks overall, especially in Chicago based banking roles. best of luck to you. Ross is a phenomenal school...they often place students at elite boutiques. (I know of two boutiques that took more than 2 each from Ross for full time spots this year).
I think a determined person could make it into banking without much trouble at any of those schools. You should take into consideration things like weather, geography, women, etc. That being said, if it was my choice to make, I would go to Michigan in a heartbeat.
Thank you to everyone so far for their input... And yes, i was talking about UMich Ann Arbor. But i was wondering if anyone that has experience with michigan could explain how difficult it is to get a decent enough GPA to get into Ross? Also, what GPA would give me a solid shot? i know that the average is a 3.6ish
Also, say i go to michigan, and dont get into Ross... how much of a disadvantage would i be at if i graduated with a degree in econ?
I did my undergard at UofM..BS in chemical engineering (preferred admit to the engineering school). This was over 10 yrs ago. Now I'm at Ross's evening MBA program. I've lived in A2 pretty much all my life...
Of course I am biased...but I would choose UofM and work your ass off to get into Ross. I had a few good friends get their BBAs from Ross. only one went into Ibanking...he landed a postion with GS. Then he got his MBA at Wharton. He is doing very well. My other friends had pretty much their pick when it came to choosing a job upon graduation. even if you dont get into Ross, an econ major with a strong GPA will still leave you with many options.
Plus A2 is a great town!
On a side note...someone mentioned the satellite campuses. Not sure if this is true still or not...when i was a soph, i interned at GM and one of the guys who just started there graduated from UofM Flint. He said that when requesting transcripts, you can pay an extra $20 and have the "Flint" removed from the transcript...so it just reads UofM. From what I gather, most potential employers automatically assume that UofM means UofM A2. That irked the hell out of me.
Dude, you go to Mich with a solid GPA, networking and econ and you will be fine. All 3 schools have a huge alumni base and are all supportive and helpful. Go to Mich and try like hell to go to Ross. If you get an econ degree I am sure you will still be competitive.
Here is another tidbit. I know there are a few uMich people who could transfer to Wharton. But no one from Nova and IU.
So work your butt off, transfer to Wharton. Live the Dream Baby!
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I would rank your best chances of getting into IB as... 1) Ross 2) Engineering/Economics at UofM 3) Member of IB Network at Kelley 4) Villanova 5) Regular student at Kelley
Just a side note, theoretically you would have to put IU workshop at number one cause they've had 100% placement this whole decade. But you would also be taking a risk of not getting in.
how competitive is admission to this workshop? how many new members does it take each year?
Do you know where they were placed? (for the workshop)
I know a few people who have done it. What I know for sure: GS NY (one of which is now at Carlyle), GS Chi, CS NY, CS Chi, a couple at DB NY, a bunch to BofAML (they recruit a lot at IU overall), MS (not sure where), UBS NY and Chi, and BMO.
Ross will give you the best chance.
That said - if you go to any of these schools, get a solid GPA, and are determined to get into banking, you will.
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I think a huge key fact people are missing is the different dynamics between schools. Villanova is a small, private, Catholic University outside Philadelphia. Parents and kids who come here come for a bunch of reasons, not always entirely centered around ranking.
U Mich is a huge state school in the middle of Michigan, same with Indiana. Totally different dynamic.
Obviously go to Mich if you can get into Ross, but Villanova or Indiana will place you in banking if you know how to network. Every coming on here talking about how they know 5 people doing this or that are just clouding the issue.
Most schools have some sort of "elite" finance group within the program. Villanova has the equity society, Indiana has that IB club or whatever.
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I went to UM for undergrad, Econ.
Based on what I've read, the IU workshop will probably give you the best chance at IB since the placement rate is really impressive. But, I'm not sure how competitive that program is to get into.
All things being equal (i.e. admitted to the IU workshop and admitted to Ross), I'd say IU and Ross are about equal chances for getting into IB, maybe edge to IU since again their placement rate pretty much speaks for itself.
Otherwise, I'd go with UM even if you don't get into Ross.
However, as others have said, if you're focused from the start and willing to work hard, you'll make it from any of the three schools you mentioned, imo.
Alright here is the update on my status...
I received a scholarship at Nova which makes it equal to the price of Indiana. This being said, I am pretty much eliminating UM because it costs so much more per year. So now it is between Nova and Kelley. Right now I am somewhat leaning toward nova because it has more individual attention with the professors and it has a well connected alumni network. This being said, I am reluctant to go there because of the social scene. The notorious nickname "villa-no-fun" somewhat has me worried that I wouldn't have as much fun socially as I would at Indiana.
Also, about the workshop at Indiana... the professor told me that each year roughly 65 students apply for 30-32 spots. So assuming that if I have a good GPA, I feel pretty confident about my chances of getting into the workshop.
With this new information about the workshop and the cost being the same, what would you guys do?
I have no direct experience with either school so take my advice at face value. I've roughly meet 5-6 people who work in PE at the associate/VP level at well respected funds & one at TPG. 3 of those oddly enough were all Kelly alum, including the TPG associate (I think he's a VP now). The upside I see from Kelly is this:1) the acceptance rate is ~50%. A competitive GPA (+3.75) off the bat & taking interest from day one should line you up for a slot, in short, it's very doable.
On the social front, & pardon my crudeness, but one of the hottest girls I've had sex with was from IU & I was really pushing to get a three way together with her equally attractive roommate; which didn't happen but that's what you get for giving up I guess. Here's a breakdown of the chick/party scene at IU.
http://www.brobible.com/Story/87745
If prices are equal it comes down to this:
IU's workshop has a 99-100% placement. Do you think you will be able to get in? Here is a link to the resume's of those in the workshop: http://kelley.iu.edu/ibn/IBW/workshop.cfm
If you don't want to risk not getting in, go for Nova. If you think you are better than the rest of the clowns at Indiana, go for IU.
As per the girls, I have not visited Nova, but it just became skirt season at Indiana and I am loving it. It will also be little 5 week next week, which is a week of pure parties for every student based on a tradition of cycling (there are parties every day of the week, a lot of good bands coming to IU, professors canceling class cause they know students will just show up drunk). People from different colleges all across the midwest show up to IU for just this week.
You can have fun at any school you go to for the most part...take nova
Just go to Nova. Your right by NYC and Philly. The campus has been ranked as having the hottest girls. Program is ranked very well.
lemas3,
It's too early to tell if your set on banking your only a hs senior come on man. i assume your a hs senior, go to the school where you think you'll enjoy the most.
I just finished the summer recruiting season and the kids who get the top gigs in banking really didn't have their sights set on banking since h.s... like you. instead most of them just went to the school of their best choice possible/or within their financial budget and then come sophomore year or whenever... they decided to go for banking.
all in all dude go to the school where you think you'll have the most fun and will provide you with the most opportunities to succeed. if you really have a hard on for banking go to kelley, do work, network and get into that workshop... it seems like you've already made up your mind with indiana looking at your original post and your trying to justify indiana/ the workshop.
the higher the average SAT/ACT score requirements to attend a school the more dogs you will see. that's why the majority of the girls at ivy leagues/top schools are busted.
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dumbyoungbum,
kelley and vsb are basically the same when in comes to undergrad business schools. there no need to say "IU is a better bschool than nova" you know AnthonyD will respond and refute your statement.... they are both great undergrad programs.
How about you state your own opinions and don't try and speak for me. I never even went to Villanova for UG. From what I see and people I talk with it places very well. I do not have experience with Kelly. Both are great schools.
You edited "I think" out of your quote. It's merely an opinion. I know Villanova is a good school (I even said it's better than IU), but from hearing people talk, which is all I'm basing it on, I've heard more people talk about IU when it comes to IB.
Just a side question, we know the IB workshop places well, how does Kelley's IB MBA Academy stack up?
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