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3/18/11

I always hear that at Wharton, Harvard and Princeton it's super hard and competitive to land an ibanking job as there're many students fighting for limited spots. If this was the case, then why would these same banks recruit at Semi-Targets such as Stern, Ross and Northwestern? If they want the best talent possible and they think that the best talent are at the top Ivy's, why wont they just recruit there...ONLY? If you don't understand what im staying, I'll put it like this...
Goldman Sachs has 200 spots open for potential 1st year analyst.
Wharton, Harvard and Princeton altogether has about 2000 students who want these spots at Goldman. But instead of filling these spots up with just "the big 3", they only sign up about 100 from these schools and go recruit at the "Tier 2" schools such as Brown, Dartmouth, Columbia, Stanford, Yale and MIT. At these schools, they sign up about 65 or 70 in total and move on the the "Tier 3" schools such as Ross, Stern, UVA,etc and take about 25 to 30 kids. And the rest are filled with people from schools such as U of T, UCLA, KU and other NON TARGET SCHOOL cold callers.
I was wondering why don't they just recruit at the 3 main schools if they think that they're the best talent and they want only the best?

Comments (107)

In reply to kendall
3/21/11
kendall:
econ:

OP, are you kidding me? Why does everyone assume that all the students at the top schools are better than all the students everywhere else?

I have NEVER said a school is better than another school. I was trying to ask if GOLDMAN SACHS THINKS that the students at Wharton ARE BETTER than at lets say NYU, why wont they accept the most Wharton students that they can before going to recruit at NYU.

* Some kids at a state school are smarter than some kids at HYP
* Not everyone at HYP wants to do banking
* Companies don't want too many alumni from any one school because they form informal power blocks that cause an imbalance within the company
* Some kids fuck up in high school and then are much better in college
* .....there's a lot of good reasons.

I've worked with several people from Ivies and honestly, we were sitting in the same office, doing the same thing, getting the same pay and I found it funny. Granted, their had an easier time landing a job, so I will be pushing for an Ivy for grad school. In all seriousness, some of the brightest people I've ever met went to state shcools and do just fine.

Get busy living

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In reply to kendall
3/21/11
kendall][quote=brotherbear:

Here's the real answer to your question.

great post, I really appreciate it. Yeah, I'm black(which makes me a URM). Ima print out that post and hang it up, really inspirational.

This entire f**king topic screams troll.

In reply to brotherbear
3/21/11
brotherbear:

Here's the real answer to your question.

One day, when you're a bit older, you'll take a course on logic, and you'll learn that to defeat an argument, you must either attack the predicates or the logic itself. Your logic is reasonable, but I reject your predicates.

One of your main assumptions is that Goldman believes kids from H/P/W (by the way, Yale is certainly a top target in the States) are better than kids from all other schools. That's simply untrue. If they thought that way, then they would recruit almost exclusively from those schools. But Goldman doesn't recruit solely from those schools. And it's for all of the reasons people highlighted above.

I live with two GS traders. Neither of them went to HYPWS. In London, that list would look like: Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL (since undergrads cannot attend LBS). Even at Lazard (who bums pedigree more than just about anyone), about half of the analyst class came from outside of those schools.

The quality of your education is only an indicator of your intelligence, but you don't have to be particularly clever to be an investment banker. You have to be willing to work VERY long hours doing exceedingly remedial accounting, spreadsheet work, and powerpoint presentations (pitch books). Moreover, at a senior level, you're eventually going to have to be able to convince C-level executives at major corporations to go through with a deal (that's how you get paid in investment banking--it's based on deal flow). That's the real reason there is a skew toward HYPWS kids on Wall Street. In 20 years, those kids will--in all likelihood--know a larger number of high-level executives than kids that go to SUNY.

Just about anyone that graduates with a 3.75+ GPA from a top 100 school can do the work of an investment banking analyst or associate. But there is a serious difference between doing the job of an analyst and doing the job of a director or MD. You'll never make it to MD based on your spectacular Excel skills. You need to know people, and be generally likeable (in the end, you're selling the exact same product every other I-banker is selling). That's why you need to relax and go hang out with your friends. Your 15-years-old for Christ's sake! I currently do business with people I knew when I was 15, and I didn't know anything about I-banking until my senior year in college.

And I did my undergrad at a 'tier 2' target, and I still got better offers than just about anyone on this board. And I went to a MUCH worse high school than you do. That's why I can guess why Duke is your first choice--they are the best school that offers merit scholarships. But that shouldn't matter for you based on how poor you claim to be. With a 3.8 at Bronx Science, if you get a 2300+ SAT, and do some solid extracurriculars, you'll get into a top Ivy, and you won't have to pay for it (it's called financial aid). Moreover, if you live in the projects (apologies for the generalization), I suspect there is a good chance you are an ethnic minority (think African-American or Hispanic). If that's the case, you'll get in everywhere. If it's not, and you happen to be a poor white kid living in the projects, you do need to work harder than minorities in your situation. Affirmative action really blows for socioeconomically disadvantaged Caucasians.

Either way, you need to work hard, relax a bit, and focus on having a good time in high school and getting into a good college. And one day, many years from now, maybe you'll sit across the table from me, and I'll ask you why you want to be a trader, and why I should pick you over all of the other kids from HYPWS. And you'll tell me that you're hungrier than they are, and I'll believe you.

Great stuff. Write a book.

- Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered.
- The harder you work, the luckier you become.
- I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.

3/21/11
3/21/11

Not all banks target semi-targets. Look at Lazard. They are uber prestigious and focus on only the very elite schools....

3/21/11

Not all banks target semi-targets. Look at Lazard. They are uber prestigious and focus on only the very elite schools....

3/21/11

Here's the deal. Wealthy people go to tier ones. These people have connections to more money. The father of ... who is 4th gen on the street continues to get sons, daughters, etc in all the time. Tier 2 is the difference of a few disgruntled kids getting a survey and being pissed. Then you get a non-target kid who has or doesn't have talent and runs rings around the kids that have everything given to them. This is the reason why 70% or more come from targets and why the last spots go to extreme works and net-workers. Now you can go to a target school or a non-target, amazing GPA and if you don't produce or no one wants to work with you, you will end end up on the street i.e. not Wall Street. This occurs anywhere.

Hard work beats talent, when talent isn't working!!!

In reply to TraderDaily
3/22/11
TraderDaily:

Not all banks target semi-targets. Look at Lazard. They are uber prestigious and focus on only the very elite schools....

less than true

Get busy living

In reply to UFOinsider
3/22/11
UFOinsider:
TraderDaily:

Not all banks target semi-targets. Look at Lazard. They are uber prestigious and focus on only the very elite schools....

less than true

this isn't true at all.. because there is someone on this board that goes to a semi target that is going to Lazard.....

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

3/22/11

Plenty of people get rejected from schools like Brown, Dartmouth, or Stanford and get into HYP. Also, plenty of kids want to go to those schools over HYP.

3/23/11

I don't know why you guys are shooting this question down...I have thought about this several times and I don't go to a "tier 1" school.

In reply to futuretrader1999
3/23/11

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In reply to rollo89
3/24/11
3/24/11
4/28/11
9/28/11

IVY for Life

9/28/11

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.

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