6 Free Financial Modeling Lessons...and More.

Enter your e-mail below to get our new Free Modeling Tutorials ($200+ Value).

< previous | next >

Why We Hired a Non-Target 1st Year - IB Analyst
 

WallStreetPlayboys's picture
O
 
Points)
 on 1/29/13 at 1:30pm
hiring.jpg

So apologize for the bad formatting here, no idea how to use this thing still but this should be helpful for guys trying to get into Wall St.

Here's the breakdown on how to stand out as a Non-Target.

After having an analyst already quit after under 6 months on the job it was time to search out a new IB candidate. Notice the context here, we're looking for a lower risk candidate who can handle the job and not stress out, freak out and quit.

When we entered the conference room, of the ~8 candidates, we killed 4 of them on Technicals (missing easy ones, depreciation on 3 statements, basic DCF, PE multiples on private companies) and then dropped one off for having a sub 3.5GPA (had a 3.2GPA). Which left us with 3. Finally, the #1 Managing Director said he just "didn't like" one of the remaining three and the rest he was fine with. At that point it came down to two candidates. To avoid revealing large details here's the break down.

Stats:
#1. Top 20 Target - 3.5 GPA - Business Major
#2. Non-Target - 3.5GPA - Economics Major with Finance classes

Technicals:
#1. No missed questions.
#2. Missed one question on declining growth company DCF analysis.

Fit:
#1. Standard answers.
#2. Stood out.

So notice the marks here, basically missing EASY Technicals gets you a quick boot and pissing off a BSD managing director (not sure what happened) gets you auto dinged. Notably, the Vice Presidents actually made the final call on the hire. Why? the MD's were okay with any of the two at this point and now the VP's are typically the hardest nosed so they literally compared "fit answers". During the discussion three very key answers made the decision.

"Why should we hire you?"
#1. Standard response with "Hard working, have finance experience, interested in the market, wants to learn and believes he can help add value immediately by taking on the job with a positive attitude" (nothing to ding here)

#2 Standard response, however at the end he stated this "Finally, to be honest I know there are probably lines of people with 4.0 GPAs and perfect resumes in front of you but if given the opportunity to work for XYZ bank I'd be more than happy to update, automate and take responsibility for any work handed to me. If this means late nights making minor changes and updates to small pitchbooks or even PIBs it would get done in a accurate and in a timely matter.

So hopefully the distinction here is a bit more clear, while the answers were very similar candidate two showed for sure that he did his homework and knew garbage was likely going to be the first course of the day. In addition, by mentioning responsibility "accuracy and speed" we now know he really does understand the job. One VP stated "I was surprised he knew so much about the industry with no resources at XYZ university"

Why M&A?
#1. Standard "I believe this is the best product group to start in because it has a steep learning curve and it is a great way to understand the selling/buying process. Given deals recently done in XXXX...."

#2. Standard. However again he added something different. "While the modelling aspect is certainly interesting, the additional knowledge on how to develop, foster and maintain strong relationships with clients is also a skillset I would like to develop

Difference? #2 thought high level. Again VP commentary "It seems like he might consider banking longer term even if he isn't a long-term fit at least he's wants to learn relational skills."

What's your best skill?
#1. Standard answer "Situation, Task, Action, Results - hardwork/won't quit"
#2. Standard answer. Followed again by one small tweak, instead of using the phrase "run through brick walls" etc. which is a standard one we get he used the phrase "Take pride in my work and view a two year stint as a contractual obligation".

What's the difference? None of the answers were wrong but the difference in one phrase change was interesting because another VP stated "It seemed like #2 is less likely to quit, if he called the job contractual which makes me believe he'd at minimum do the 2 years"

TL;DR.
1. Technicals get you killed if you miss basic ones but not if you miss tough ones.
2. Be careful with the MD interview to come off as personable.
3. Know the type of situation the bank is in. #2's answers were slightly better because you can read between the lines and realize the major worry was someone quitting again.
4. Know who you are interviewing with and try to feel out their personality

Disclaimer: Based on the commentary below, one thing that should be cleared up is this, in no way shape or form is it being recommended that you use more intent language such as the differences above in **every** interview. The read between the lines is now in bullet 4 of the TL;DR. Context is key.

One funny extra, one of the Directors actually said this about the target candidate.

"If XYZ was so strong I wonder why he didn't land a job in normal recruiting season"

Hope this helps and if there is anything else that needs to be clarified feel free to comment. Looks like you guys got the message.

See my other post "Top 5 Basic Technical Questions That Will Show You the Door"

WallStreetPlayboys.com Twitter @WallStPlayboys Get paid, Get Laid. Nothing else matters.
Kanon's picture

Good post, SB'd. Very

O
(King Kong, 1,504
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 2:26am

Good post, SB'd. Very accurate and sounds like the kid did his homework.

Ukon's picture

SBed. However, I have to say

PE
(Orangutan, 370
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 8:30am

SBed. However, I have to say that your VP is pretty naive. Lol.

mariozou's picture

great insights

(Chimp, 12
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 9:19am

great insights

AndyLouis's picture

thanks for the post, just

(Almost Human, 6,128
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 9:26am

thanks for the post, just homepage'd it and will add it back up next week as well

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My story | Connect with me on Linkedin.

2013 WSO Conference

boredviewer's picture

Good stuff

 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 9:48am

Good stuff

workingworking's picture

I can sum up your whole

(Chimp, 4
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 9:50am

I can sum up your whole article: Passion.

MinneBanker's picture

great info for kids in

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 9:51am

great info for kids in interviews, thanks!

Cruncharoo's picture

"It seems like he might

CO
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 10:43am

"It seems like he might consider banking longer term even if he isn't a long-term fit at least he's wants to learn relational skills."

What does it mean that he is not a long-term fit?

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..

jjjjl241's picture

Beautiful, thanks

(Baboon, 153
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 11:01am

Beautiful, thanks

kraziazi's picture

Very helpful, thanks.

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 11:48am

Very helpful, thanks.

BBnkr10's picture

Can you please go through a

IB
(King Kong, 1,107
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 11:57am

Can you please go through a couple hard technical questions you threw at them, like correct PE multiples for private firms, declining growth company DCF, etc. Thanks.

Charles-perry's picture

This is weird because I'm at

(Orangutan, 273
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 12:22pm

This is weird because I'm at a target and gave very similar answers to the 'non-target'. I was told 'they were looking for something more structured/STAR approach' in one interview. Although I was passionate and would 'hit the ground running' there were people with 4.0 GPA's they had to give 1st priority too.

Guess this is the UK recruiting system for you!

WallStreetPlayboys's picture

@workingworking - That is

O
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 1:01pm

@workingworking - That is pretty much it, when a bank has just suffered a "quitter" they are usually annoyed and want to pick up someone willing to go through the tortures of a 2 year analyst stint and complete it. You can't teach effort.

@cruncharoo - So when banks hire analysts they are much less likely to "care" if you can do the job long-term. There are two "buckets" of hires 1) work horses and 2) Long-term bankers if you seem like both you'll easily be getting a job. The reason why is because there simply are not many slots for an "A to A" promote... Analyst to Associate. If a group hires say 10 analysts, maybe 1-2 would be ok'd for a direct promote. So during an interview process people like VP's as mentioned above will try to sift out a couple of kids who can simply "get work done and not complain about it". Which leads me to Ukon's comment.

@Ukon - I see where you can view it as naive, so the million dollar question is who is more likely to quit? A guy who had next to no chance of getting the job in the first place and will likely be happy doing massive meaningless tasks for the first few months or the guy who already knows the difference? Its a bit of an odd situation because the slot that usually opens when people quit is a "grind it out 2 years slot". In terms of qualifications you're probably right in terms of the other guy being a better analytical mind but we hired the non-target because we don't like having higher than average "churn" on this particular platform.

@ddp32 - Sure can do, i just pinged Andy to see what the rules are on positing if it deserves another post. Basically there are a set of "easy ones" that will kick you out the door and a set of "harder" ones that you can shine one.

@Charles - Both candidates gave very structured responses the real difference was the delivery of the message (sales anyone!). Also there are different situations, in a cookie cutter process I can see you getting pushed out by a 4.0 candidate in a pure numbers game/bad luck situation. Not sure what your background is but if you want to feel free to pm me and maybe I can help you flush out any bad answers. One thing simply from the response above if you say "hit-the-groud-running" then you absolutely MUST have real finance experience otherwise it sounds very different from "pride in work/commitments". The first slang terms implies prior experience you can bring to the table, the second one simply says you'll be checking your work for dumb mistakes and not quitting any time soon. So an average "college" grad with no experience certainly has very little to hit the ground running with... Hope that is helpful.

WallStreetPlayboys.com

Twitter @WallStPlayboys

Get paid, Get Laid. Nothing else matters.

Banker88's picture

Nice post. Curious what you

IB
(King Kong, 1,654
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 1:13pm

Nice post. Curious what you meant by the "private PE multiples" question though?

In reply to Banker88
GED or Bust's picture

Banker88: Nice post. Curious

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 2:11pm
Banker88:

Nice post. Curious what you meant by the "private PE multiples" question though?

Same here.

In reply to ddp34
A Fellow Linguist's picture

ddp34: Can you please go

 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 2:36pm
tangent style's picture

Also interested in the

(Baboon, 145
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 2:47pm

"Do not go gentle into that good night"

In reply to A Fellow Linguist
GED or Bust's picture

A Fellow

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 3:11pm
BBnkr10's picture

whats EMM and PGM stand for?

IB
(King Kong, 1,107
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 3:24pm
BBnkr10's picture

Are you just talking about

IB
(King Kong, 1,107
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 3:27pm
BBnkr10's picture

gordon growth method*

IB
(King Kong, 1,107
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 3:28pm
BBnkr10's picture

nvm got it...

IB
(King Kong, 1,107
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 3:30pm
WallStreetPlayboys's picture

Just got the PM back from

O
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 3:47pm

WallStreetPlayboys.com

Twitter @WallStPlayboys

Get paid, Get Laid. Nothing else matters.

reformed's picture

Was the guy the md just

(Orangutan, 328
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 3:50pm
HowardRoark's picture

@reformed, if he was indeed

O
(Orangutan, 339
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 3:56pm

jacobzhang.net - my thoughts and portfolio.

"Money doesn't talk, it swears." - Bob Dylan

See my other WSO Blog posts

In reply to HowardRoark
tangent style's picture

HowardRoark: @reformed, if he

(Baboon, 145
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 4:00pm

"Do not go gentle into that good night"

BTbanker's picture

FWIW, 3.5 Econ major at a non

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 4:21pm

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

In reply to reformed
WallStreetPlayboys's picture

So if you're not going to get

O
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 4:35pm

WallStreetPlayboys.com

Twitter @WallStPlayboys

Get paid, Get Laid. Nothing else matters.

In reply to GED or Bust
A Fellow Linguist's picture

GED or Bust: A Fellow

 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 4:45pm
Nudie's picture

great post.

(Monkey, 35
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 4:59pm
KKS's picture

Great post. I appreciate you

IB
(Gorilla, 690
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 6:55pm
BBnkr10's picture

Do you mean when he said

IB
(King Kong, 1,107
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 7:01pm
Black Jack's picture

Unsure of why his answer that

IB
(King Kong, 1,180
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 7:58pm
henryxub's picture

I am not sure about how the

(Baboon, 117
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 8:03pm
In reply to A Fellow Linguist
GED or Bust's picture

AFL - SA-recruit here. I

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/26/13 at 9:35pm
In reply to GED or Bust
A Fellow Linguist's picture

GED or Bust: AFL -

 
Points)
 on 1/27/13 at 12:01am
Plastic Cup Boys's picture

Just out of curiosity, was

(Baboon, 139
 
Points)
 on 2/3/13 at 3:17am
manutd's picture

Based on the answers given by

 
Points)
 on 3/15/13 at 8:41pm
lmbullet's picture

love this post!

IB
 
Points)
 on 3/18/13 at 11:54pm
TheKid1's picture

Did the Non-Target have any

IB
 
Points)
 on 3/19/13 at 10:59am
In reply to manutd
reformed's picture

manutd: Based on the answers

(Orangutan, 328
 
Points)
 on 3/19/13 at 11:20pm
In reply to reformed
manutd's picture

reformed: manutd: Based on

 
Points)
 on 3/20/13 at 5:56pm
In reply to manutd
reformed's picture

manutd: reformed: manutd:

(Orangutan, 328
 
Points)
 on 3/20/13 at 11:11pm
giwook's picture

Great post and insight, it'll

IB
 
Points)
 on 6/9/13 at 12:38am

6 Free Financial Modeling Lessons...Straight to Your Inbox.

Confirm your name and e-mail below to get our best tips

Monkey Stats
Account information
We respect your Name and E-mail privacy. By joining you accept our terms of service.